Ooo thanks for the book recommendation I'll have a look. I don't tend to read self help type books but useful tips on managing insomnia sound really helpful. Got to be worth a look, I get frustrated being given the same 4 or 5 over and over; warm bath, hot milky drinks, tightening then relaxing muscles etc. I'm sure they do work for some people but if someone is asking the question they've probably already tried and failed at a night time routine etc (overtired and grumpy? Me?)