support shoes no more - Health + Injury

david ferguson 2

22/08/2002 at 23:09

Has anyone run in support shoes but in fact been a neutral runner.Did you have problems.?
If so can you describe,i might have this and want to know others experience.

David.

Velociraptor

22/08/2002 at 23:16

I'm the opposite, David - a slight overpronator who runs best in cushioned neutral shoes (currently alternating old-style Nike Air Altheas, Asics 2060s and a very recently acquired and fantastically comfortable pair of Mizuno Wave Riders) as support shoes tend to overcorrect my gait.

What has your experience been? I get the impression that it might not have been a happy one.

the lamb

23/08/2002 at 10:30

Hi David - I was misdiagnosed too, was sold a pair of Saucony Grid Hurricanes by the infamous and not-very-popular Run and become and they gave me terrible knee problems! I now run in completely neutral shoes with an heel raise insole in my right shoe (a slight leg length difference was maing me UNDER-pronate on that side). I was also told that sometimes even mild overpronators run better in neutral shoes as motion control devices can do more harm than good. Luckily I found a top physio and podiatrist and they sorted me out properly...

Daisy Duke

23/08/2002 at 10:46

I am a somewhere between under pronator and neutral. My first shoes were just everday running shoes with a curved cushioning. These were hurting my ankles, I had to wear supports on them and my knees were sore my hips and lower back ached for days after a run. I then got a pair of Asics Cummulus 111, a neutral shoe, I have only been running in them for a week now, no pain. It is like night and day.

annajo

23/08/2002 at 11:03

velociraptor - this is me being a pedant but 2060s are actually a support shoe, and altheas have a tiny bit of support in them.

David, how are you getting on finding a new pair of trainers? did you get another pair sorted out?
let us know what you ended up with, Im interested, having read a number of your posts in various places.

For the record, I was initially told I was a neutral runner by a friend trying to be helpful, and only in the last couple of years, after starting work in a specialist retailer, have I realised I needed support, and quite a bit. I used to get aches in the ankle and knee, but (touch wood) they seemed to have gone.

anna

larmyia

23/08/2002 at 11:04

It's so difficult to find the right shoe! It's all well and good to say that if it doesn't feel right get a new pair, but (a) what if you're not sure if it's got to do with the shoe, and (b) I know as a uni student I certainly can't afford to go out and just pick up a new pair. I can barely afford the pair I got.

Furthermore, sometimes even if you go to a proper running store they don't know what they are on about or don't care, and you get the wrong advice.

Difficult situation if you ask me.....

Velociraptor

23/08/2002 at 11:47

You're absolutely right, Anna (although the new Altheas have about as much support as a cheap carrier bag), but the Altheas are described as being "neutral, but enough support for some mild overpronators". And my on-the-road assessment is that the 2060s, however they're classified, are no more supportive than the other models I'm wearing. Which, for me, is great! I felt the difference instantly on trying on "proper" support shoes in the shop - some of them made me supinate quite uncomfortably.

Larmyia, when you buy a new pair of shoes don't let the shop staff hurry you. Try on every single shoe in the shop if you need to, and have a little run around in them all too, immediately rejecting any that feel tight, slip even with the laces through the top hole, or alter your gait. Don't part with a penny piece for a shoe that doesn't feel right from the outset. Even then, I like to do my first few runs in new shoes on a treadmill so that they don't get muddy and I can return them in good-as-new condition if problems arise.

annajo

23/08/2002 at 13:33

Larmyia, if a shop is not giving you good service, go somewhere else - don't feel like you have to buy one of the shoes offered if you aren't happy. There is a lot of good advice in the above post, from velociraptor (I'm intrigued, why do you use that nick name?)

Sometimes you might get someone new, who might not know as much as the more experienced staff, but they should usually be being watched by someone who knows what they are talking about, who will intervene if necessary. You can also speak to other staff if you want confirmation that your shoes will be ok for you.

david ferguson 2

23/08/2002 at 13:40

Velociraptor

That is my plan (treadmill and return if no good).
I am planning a trip to the Sweatshop in Glasgow this
weekend,they have footscan and a treadmill.A couple of my
workmates have used them and thought the advice and
attention paid to your needs was very good.

I will report back on monday.

larmyia

23/08/2002 at 14:05

annajo....I agree with what you're saying if things go according to plan and you live somewhere you can find shops that give good advice. up till now I've mainly lived in places where they don't know anything, from the sales clerk up to the manager. but you've got no choice as there is no where else to go.

I think my new shoes are good. but am not sure. have had knee probs for a long time, so hard to judge if the shoes are making it worse, or it's just the condition worsening. Furthermore I think I have pulled a muscle in both my legs. not sure what to attribute that to......who knows?!?

as for my nic...been using it for about 5yrs. it's a twist on the title character from a poem by Keats (Lamia) and somewhat similar to my name. :)

Dave...good luck!

MartinH

23/08/2002 at 14:06

I have always thought that if you are neutral that you will be neutral whether you're wearing an anti-pronation (support) shoe or not i.e. a support shoe prevents pronation but doesn't actually cause supination (normally). Therefore, if you're neutral you won't do any harm by wearing them?

I have for the last 8-9 years run in Asics shoes (20-series - starting with the 2010!) and have always found them excellent - if a little firm. This year I changed to Nikes and, whether its just a conincidence, have had knee problems (there are probably other contributory factors to the knee problems). I have now switched back to support shoes (Addidas and Asics) and (together with some other self help) my knee problems seems to be slowly getting better.

Glenn

23/08/2002 at 14:47

I don't know whether you technically supinate or not but wearing the wrong type of shoe can definitely do harm. I shelled out a lot of money for the Asics gel Koji MC shoes and if I wear them two days running the pain in my knees becomes unbearable.

Although I'm heavy my style is neutral - I'm much happier in the gel Nimbus, which is just a cushioned shoe.

david ferguson 2

23/08/2002 at 15:26

Glenn

You are describing the problems i get with
the omni's and structure triax.Also whilst running
my legs get very weak as if totally strained below
the knee and i have to stop.I switch back to my old
2060's and they feel like gloves but with the cushioning
now shot after perhaps 1000miles.

Velociraptor

23/08/2002 at 16:00

If only it were as simple as "you're neutral so you can wear anything", Martin! Take my word, you can supinate. I don't mean a subtle little shift in gait that's picked up by the Sweatshop computer, either. I felt as if I was walking on the insides of my ankles.

the lamb

23/08/2002 at 16:10

Exactly - if there is a device that aims to push your foot outwards (to prevent over pronation) it will make a neutral runner supinate to a degree,,,

david ferguson 2

27/08/2002 at 10:38

For anyone still reading.
I went along to sweatshop Glasgow on saturday and found
them extremely helpfull.Kerry explained the operation of the
footscan and i carried out the usual run across the
floor in bare feet attempting to hit the pad with
left then right foot a number of times till the system
could build up a profile for each foot.This
confirmed that my original diagnosis from a year ago
was correct and i did need some support for over
pronation but not a huge lot.

The obvious place to start then was the asic 2070 which
felt very good,i then tried on mizuno's,saucony's,NB all on
the treadmill but none felt like the 2070's.So that was
what i purchased.The treadmill was a great help and i was very surprised
by the feel of different manufacturers shoes
in particular the Mizuno's which caused lower
back pain almost straight away.(mercury)
I ran a steady 4 miles on saturday and 1hr 40min
on sunday ( i know i shouldn't) and all felt very well.

So far so good.

larmyia

27/08/2002 at 11:59

fingers crossed David!

the lamb

27/08/2002 at 12:04

My dad just went to get his first pair of running shoes and went to a normal sports shop (despite my instructions!). anyway the guy there spun him all this yarn about how knowledgable he was, said most people overpronate then sold him a pair of asics. he didn't look at his feet, he didn't watch him run. what a cowboy! feel i should go in there and put matters right. my dad can't afford another pair from a proper running shop.

need for speed

10/03/2008 at 09:42

i used to love Nike Pegs,' so comfortable, but started getting all sorts of niggles, so went to see top podiatrist, who said, get something with a stiffer mid section to stop you pronating, like an asics 2100.So went out and bought asics 2100, problems no better. So, i went to 'advance running' in peterborough, only to be told after about an hour trying different combinations on their treadmill (which scans the foot from the back while running, and slows it all down, so that you can see foot/ankle position at impact point,) with/without my orthotics, that a nuetral shoe with orthotics in, was giving the best landing/push off position. So, ended up with Brooks glycerin, and best it's been for a long time. He did say they have had problems with asics 2100's? and wouldn't recomend them.

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