3 Runs Per Week Schedule - Page 61 - Spring Marathon

Ben Wickham

05/02/2011 at 17:12

iFish - you did what?!?!?!

Officially, beyond impressed...

JPF1

05/02/2011 at 20:07

Ben - hatched the plan last night when I saw weather forecast. But really was following your Cairo example without the outside danger! Don't think I'll be making a habit of it.

Quickstepper

06/02/2011 at 21:28

Hi again good to see the forums up and running (so to speak) - I've been sooooo busy I've had to skip look back here - but now I know stuffs happening I'll be popping back more regularly.

I get the feeling this forum has become a fairly hardcore of rugged marathon veterans.

iFish - Did I read your previous forum post right!!! I agree with Ben.

Ben - Unbelieveable mileage on a treadmill - anybody without motivation has to look to you as an example - and ever stronger running.

Lunaman - glad you're on this forum (despite the massive training regime I hope injuries stay away - sounds like the old niggles are about - you just can't change your biomechanics - go careful).

Ktrier - only just started training - so you're looking for a slow 2:50 then!!!! I need to get some overshoes - I just hate cold feet and with my tri-cleat shoots the wind is very chilly.

2nd 20 miler in the bag - both at PMP+41 secs (training at PMP 6:30 this year but plan to run 6:40) Despite very bad stomach cramps and pain for the last 3 days - I actually missed my first session on Friday). Lunaman - my right achilles is flaring up as always - it's a biomechanics thing.

Fancy dress - was fastest cartoon character but that's now 2:47 so I've switched - waiting for confirmation. Plus I've just contacted our local hospice as my nominated charity. So I'm becoming a fully fledged London Marathoners.

So we now enter a recovery week in the Furman schedule.....I hope so

JPF1

07/02/2011 at 10:27

QS - Great to hear from you. Your pacing strategy is interesting, as I've noticed that my Actual Marathon Pace has always been about 10 seconds per mile slower on the day than my planned marathon pace during the 16 week schedule. I've wondered whether I should be training at about 10 seconds per mile quicker, particularly on long runs - which is what you seem to be doing. The only problem is that I know that I wouldn't be able to get any where near the equivalent track repeat times.

Regarding my mega gym session. Yes, you all did read correctly! But honestly, it looks worse on screen than it was in practice. I got to the gym at 7.30am and there was only 1 other person there. I had my ipod loaded up with my favourite tracks and started the session. The 1st 45 mins really dragged by and I thought that I'd made a mistake, but the further I got into the session the quicker the time went by and the more determined I became to make sure I completed my plan. As I got towards the end of the 20 mile treadmill session, I even started thinking that I might continue further, but resisted in case I invited injury.

Looking forward to this week's recovery.

Ktrier

07/02/2011 at 16:32

iFish ??!!! Impressive Stuff

QS. You guys are resting, I'm just getting going. Seems you are right on track...

Had to try and slow myself down for 1st long run, but still came in 15 secs a mile faster than I should have.... The rest week worked too well me thinks!I think I need to slow down a bit or risk injury or peaking too soon

My Half marathon plans have been scuppered by work, so I may just do a duathlon a couple of weeks before instead of an 18 mile long run. The Plan is being currently being (re)constructed.

JPF1

13/02/2011 at 11:18

So how did everyone's 13 @ MP+15 go?
Mine was another wet and very windy experience, but felt good and strong particularly over last 5 miles - probably because of tail wind!
Ended up with time that was MP + 9.

I know it's still the middle of Feb, but I wouldn't mind a hint of spring - especially for long runs.

Quickstepper

13/02/2011 at 22:17

iFish - wet and windy here too - but like you came in quicker than prescribed with PMP+7. I feel very strong and fit at the moment, and down to my racing weight (all is well except for my right achilles!)- my long tempo on Friday was 10 secs quicker than planned - it all felt relatively controlled. BUT I'm rather concerned about the achilles - I've needed the 2 days recovery post long run plus icing and strecthing but this week due to weekend commitments I will only get 1, i just hope it doesn't push me over the edge...any suggestions?

Ktrier - recklessly quick as ever - and I'm sure your training last year wasn't exactly to plan and look what you did. I should have got on my outdoor bike on Saturday - we had beautiful weather but instead i went on the gym bike....I'm a little out of love with triathlon at the minute.

JPF1

14/02/2011 at 10:15

QS - Good running. Achilles injuries/niggles can be a real nuisance. I managed to hurt my achilles by doing too much too soon after last year's VLM. I found that I was able to carry on training by following Furman principles. So, regular icing (but not ott), careful stretching (as they advise in the RLRF book), calf raises with dumbell (again as in RLRF book). I also use Emu Oil and Blue Active Gel on my various aches and pains. They were particularly effective with the achilles. However, the real breakthrough came when I changed my trainers. I asked for a gait analysis at my local running shop, which revealed that I need a more supportive trainer. So I replaced my Nike Pegasus (which I've used since they came out 27 years ago!) with Nike Triax Breath.

Can only think that my aging ankles are not as strong as they used to be!

Hope these few suggestions help.

Ben Wickham

14/02/2011 at 10:19

Nice running at the weekend people. Always good when runs come in a little quick, especially on the Furman and it's blistering pace.

Quickstepper - why out of love with triathlon? Isn' t this the season when we lyrca fiends wake up, greet the sunshine and lay down on the aero-bars?

Sorry to hear it's been a bit cr@ppy weather in the UK. Just to annoy you all, I was basking in the sunshine and 20degs of Seville on Saturday. Sunday was hazy sunshine and 9degrees. No wind. Perfect marathon conditions. I'll spare you all the details (if anyone cares I started a blog), but the headlines are: Taper/carbo-load all good. I nailed 2:57:18. Felt totally in control right up to mile 24ish. Backed off a bit to avoid any massive damage in leiu of upcoming VLM. A bit of actual pain through the last few km's... today I'm stiff but not exactly in pain, and probably gonna hit my regular Monday spinning sesh with the missus tonight. Bloody great weekend. I think I'll make Seville a regular thing. So fast, flat and well organised. Cheap as hell. Even if you jog it as a time on feet run, you could do the whole weekend for £150, and I've now got a new towel, badge, keyring, running kit (vest & shorts), and a medal!

JPF1

14/02/2011 at 11:14

Ben - Brilliant run in the sun. Really pleased that you got your well deserved sub 3. You've also plenty of time to recover and retrain for VLM. Particularly impressive that you achieved sub 3 even though you were backing off. Tried to read your blog, but the link connects to wiki.

Ben Wickham

14/02/2011 at 11:36

oops yeah.

link is here . I got in at 1am, and was at work at 08:30.

I say work, more stat checking, blog writing, PowerOf10 surfing... talking of which, I'm currently 33rd ranked UK marathon runner for 2011. Woo! The benefits of an early 26.2 ehy?!

Edited: 14/02/2011 at 11:45

Quickstepper

14/02/2011 at 22:39

Ben - I seem to remember when you came on the scene on this forum last year - injuries, struggling - and yet in less than a year a sub 3 hour marathon. Fantastic result, you should be rightly proud. Enjoy a week off, you deserve it and it will only serve you better for VLM.

IFish - What the hell is blue active gel? I'm interested in the shoe theory - I once again bought Asics 1540s but they now state under some sellers that they are for runners with flatter feet and I'm certainly not that but do need support. I may splash out on a second alternative asics support pair - time to do some investigation. thanks for the tips.

Quickstepper

14/02/2011 at 22:43

Ben - Why out of love with tri? I'm too focused on the marathon to get side tracked by long bike rides plus my swimming is just going nowhere fast...smooth and relatively efficient but mid pack speed (I'm too skinny, ape index of +5 and have heavy runners legs - not good designs for swimming). Ask again end of April with the warmer weather and I'll be a changed man - I love swimming open water, even slowly.

JPF1

15/02/2011 at 10:04

QS - Blue Active Gel is a muscle/joint rub, which contains emu oil and other secret ingredients! I usually buy a large tub and when it's about 3/4 full, top it up with pure emu oil. Runner's rituals; strange aren't they!

blue active and emu oil

What X training are you doing QS?

Ben - Are you doing more cycling and swimming in build up to London, or more running?

Ben Wickham

15/02/2011 at 13:46

QS - I'm definitely taking it very easy this week. As over the moon I am about my time (and thanks so much for your kind words), the number one aim of Seville was to 'take a marker' for the winter's training, and kick off the run into VLM. I'm focussing on not falling into that post-marathon binge state... the prize is still a fast VLM time!

I completely understand your triathlon thoughts. I'm very much the same. I can't get into long rides, and my swimming is mid-pack at best. I've taken a few 1on1 lessons, and after a winter's worth of work, they're starting to pay dividends, but I'm never be a cyclist/swimmer in the same way I'm a runner.

iFish - I've got VLM, then the two London tris, Galway70.3, then NewYork marathon this year, so I'm keeping the swimming/cycling up as much as possible so when the running miles drop away post-VLM I'm still in good shape, but I'm essentially on the Furman model still... a mixture of running paces, and a few cross-training sessions... although the miles are much higher and the cross training at a higher intensity

How does that gel stuff help you? I've never quite got with any muscle rub type things. Maybe I've got horrid thick skin?

luna man

16/02/2011 at 18:01

Phew, you're all here and gassing away then, good stuff!

Sorry, still haven't invested in cleats, sigh, but enjoying some sunny bike rides again outdoors at last.

Ben - fantastic result, well done! That's really superb. I want me one of those numbers beginning with 2!

QS - good advice above. I was prescribed calf dips for my achilles tendinopathy. These are an eccentric exercise, which I still practice fairly regularly. Don't know if you tried those, and there's something similar called Walt's SAS exercises. PPOnline had an article about this stuff. That along with gait analysis. On the other hand, I was also prescribed orthotics for over-pronation, so I've never known which of those actually fixed it for me!

re. biomechanics - everyone I've seen says I have a good gait, good form, no heavy landing etc, but still there are injuries. I'm sure it's down to a previously inactive lifestyle with none of the sports etc at school that might have toughened me up or prepared me for what I now do - pounding pavements relentlessly. The current Medial Tibial Stress Syndrome (aka Shin Splints in olden days) is happy with 40mpw running and 100mpw biking, but doesn't like me running on consecutive days apparently. I can live with this.

I'll keep tabs on you all - it's nice to be reminded of those harder Furman paces, now all my long runs are nice and easy (8:15 mm+). Still, I've chalked off four of them so far. Other runs are one easy, one intervals (slower than Furman) OR just easy again, plus one tempo (HM pace).

Brighton Half this Sunday, after which I'll have a bit more of a clue about what state I'm in for VLM. But maybe not, if it's really windy along the prom, which it always is!

[Edited for spelling!]

Edited: 16/02/2011 at 18:01

JPF1

19/02/2011 at 09:54

LunaMan - Good to hear from you again. I'm still biking on my turbo, not enough sun for me yet! Hope you're shin splints clear up. Are you running 4 times per week then? Interested to read that you're slowing the paces a bit. Is this because you've added the extra run, or because you're doing so much biking? Good luck at Brighton Half this Sunday, forecast doesn't look too bad.

Ben - Emu oil is very easily absorbed, but can be a bit messy, which is why I use the Blue Active. I find that it helps the aches and pains in my old knees, which I've suffered with for years - hence the Furman approach.

QS - How's the achilles? Impressed you're down to your racing weight. I'm still about 5 pounds heavier than I like to be, but have a weak spot for sweets and biscuits, particularly after a long run!

Hope everyone who's on the 16 week Furman plan is looking forward to the massive interval session next week!

Ben Wickham

19/02/2011 at 14:33

Sorry I meant to say good luck tomorrow Lunaman! Racing pace I presume?!

JPF1

21/02/2011 at 09:31

Ben - Looks like you've got a busy racing year ahead!

Had a really hard 18 miler yesterday. Work commitments on Wed, Thur and Fri meant that I had to do my 6 tempo on Sat morning. I also made the mistake of cramming in an hour and a half strength/cross training at Kendal Climbing wall in the afternoon.
I was at work on Sun morning and consequently MP + 30 in the afternoon felt fast and I was at my limit throughout the run. The last 3 felt like the end of a marathon into a cold headwind and I slowed quite a lot with the overall time coming in at MP + 42. But the miles are done and I think that it's these difficult runs that do you good psychologically.

Anyway, I've got a few days holiday now, so am resting today in prep for the mammoth intervals tomorrow.

How did everyone else's long runs go?

Ktrier

23/02/2011 at 14:09

Hi,

I've missed a bit, so read back.

Excellent running Ben. Well deserved sub 3. Congratulations. Your probably back into the swing of things now. Hectic year of racing ahead with marathon training forming a good fitness base for later tri action. Like it!

QS - misserable wet rides will tend to make triathlon seem uninspiring, but come spring, summer you'll be loving it again! I'm a back of pack swimmer for same reasons you gave but means I spend rest of race passing people which is nice.

iFish - I agree. I think the tough sessions are good mental prep for mile 22-26.

LM - How was the half? Hope good. Sorry didn't wish good-luck before.

I had my first 20 miler last weekend (must seem like a long time ago for you london marathoners) It was nice and controlled. Finished strong for a negative split. Looked at my watch and saw I had averaged 6:42 min/miles. OOPs a bit too fast. Didn't really feel too sore after.

Also had to throw in an extra 1k rep in my intervals yesterday as felt I hadn't quite done enough.Am I peaking to soon or should I just ride this good feeling??