The Rat - My wife thinks I am mad too - your wife though does have a point - 6AM on a Sunday!!!!
As for your run 20.5 miles! You certainly have the mental strength to succeed (6 am in the rain too).
Ultimately, you know you body and are the only one that can listen to it but it sounds like you have a good idea what you are doing with the 3 month lead in etc Power to you.
I too train alone as I like to fit it round work and home life plus there are not too many guys in this area who could come out for a sub 2 hour 17 miler training run on a Sunday (6:56 average with 1800 ft ascent). You got me thinking yesterday maybe I need to train a bit harder on the long runs....
I'm up at the lazy time of 6:20 tomorrow to get in 35 minutes of swimming - my knees feel a little achy from today's exercise.
Lou7 - the loneliness of the long distance runner, only we know how good it makes us feel - glad my suggest struck a chord.
Haven't posted for a couple of weeks but have been logging on to read how everyones training is going .I think i am a bit of a tortoise compared to most people on this thread.Done my 17 miler saturday morning in 2hrs 28mins (8.43 m/m) which was a bit quicker than planned but i was running with a mate who is a tad bit quicker than me.Only problem was a blister right in the middle of my left foot,never had one there before only thing i can think of is that my trainers are losing some of their cushioning.They have only done 350 miles but that does include the Snowdonia marathon so perhaps it is time to get my new ones out of the box.
Hope everyones training is going well.I see that this weekend it is a 20 miler ! seems quite early in the training for a 20.Dont know weather to go for it at a slower pace or to bottle it and do less miles.Just wondered what the benefits are of doing big miles early on are (week 4 ) .
Yup RR- I'm struggling with the early high mileage too- pulled up on saturday's LSR at 21.5km, rather than scheduled 29km, - totally out of fuel- spots before the eyes- I know, based on previous experience, that in 2 weeks time, I'll be better for it, and this is the reason that I, like someone else (sorry- forgot who) do my LSR on a treadmill- I'd be nervous of this happening when I was miles from home, 'cos once it does, I ain't going any further!
I'll do more outside long runs when I'm confident at the distances.
Spinning class as cross training this am- boy that's hard work!
Tricialitt- sorry to hear about your saturday run, i know that some weeks it just doesnt happen but it makes you feel even better on the weeks when everything does come together.Are you going to do 20 miles this weekend coming? and on a treadmill,total respect, i can't even do 3 miles on a treadmill withhout feeling weird. Do you do energy gels? when i am feeling a bit yuk during a run i pop a gel and it seems to work,whether it is all in the mind i am not to sure.
P.S Did i see you on the Loch ness forum?
Reydon Rover - What shape are your socks in - this could be the cheap answer as 350 miles isn't too much for a shoe - unless you are a heavy lander!
Keep your early 20 miler slow (60 sec off Marathon pace is what isr ecommended. Definitely take gels, with water but do it before you feel yuk!
Tricliatt - Rather than a tread could you plan a 4 mile loop - it has to be more interesting?
I agree - a long run on a treadmill would be torture for me! (Even more torture than a long run already is!). But I suppose we are all different!
I was just thinking 20 miles already is very soon too - can we keep this up til April? Still 13 weeks to go.
Reydon Rover - don't worry about your pace - you are considerably faster than me. I'm hoping to pick the pace up after I have completed my first 20 miler. Will be good to hear everyone's first 20 mile report. - Good luck everyone. I have booked myself in for a massage the next day. Decided to treat myself after each 20 miler.
Liz Yelling wrote (see)
Just a word of warning to those doing London and are already doing 20 mile runs! Back off, a little, you now have 13 weeks, you should only just be starting to build on your long runs, and running for 2 hours max right now and building on time and pace. (If I was running I would only just be starting to progress my runs from 1 hour 40 mins at this point). You want to arrive fit and fresh not exhausted on the start line! Plan your long runs up to the race day and make sure you are not running over 20 miles or more every weekend between now and race day! Just my point of view! Unless you are an ultra running of course!
I've just read this on the Lucozade Sport 3:15 thread - Sue I think. From Liz Yelling too! I know they are following different schedules but it makes you think.
Lou7 - I responded to her post querying this but she hasn't yet responded. Last year I got up to 20 quick as I think it then takes a huge amount of pressure of you in terms of trying to fit five in. I queried that running them all back to back in the latter stages is quite risky and an illness or injury could cause you to miss 3 of the 5 long runs. I also don't like to do them back to back as they take up a lot of the weekend which is unfair on my family and I think I would be exhausted.
From this week on on will try to do one every two or every three weeks. The first one is tough but they pretty rapidly get easier. As we are all running only three times a week, we should have enough time to recover from them, maybe if you're running 5 or 6 times a week, its too early as you are still getting used to running for so many days. I think Furman starts the 20's now doesn't it? I did ask her whether she thought I might be missing out on some benefit of running them back to back in the later stages - it will be interesting to see what she says.
Primarily though for me it serves me well. Working and having 3 kids, life is not always ideal and gambling that in March there won't be any weekend that you won't have some issue or other commitment that stops me from running is risky. I also remember last year so may posts with people being injured in the second half and feeling that they needed to play catch up in the time they should be tapering and doing 20 mile runs.
It depends what your goals are but it worked for me last year and I'm doing 20 tomorrow.
Thanks, Astride - what you say makes perfect sense and I am now actually quite looking forward to my 20 miler on Sunday. The pace seems quite easy for this first one too, so bring it on!
I need some reassurance after another messed up interval session this morning. I just can't get the hang of them if I try them outside. Doing ok on the treadmill & 1or 2% incline but out on the roads it just doesn't come together. Maybe it were different if I had access to a proper track but as it stands, I don't and have to make do with the local park which isn't 100% flat and involves dodging dogs and their walkers. Just looking for excuses
Doing ok on the tempo & long runs which, somehow I've managed to complete a few seconds per mile faster than I had to because I felt really good and strong throughout all of them. I probably have to face facts and realise that I am never gonna be a fast runner.
Astride - I fully agree with your thoughts, and the 3 a week plan gets a few in early now, (first one this weekend) so you are in good shape for later (when injuries and or families may make it more difficult). As this is my first marathon, and my speed is good on HMs, I cannot see anyway of getting my endurance up without pounding out 5 or 6 x 20 miles over the next 10 weeks - the plan gives me one very long 20 mile, then an shorter 16 / 18 the next weekend so lots of time to recover. Liz is an elite athlete and I have a feeling with her base fitness and endurance she needs a different plan from us normal punters.
Sch - I too struggle with the intervals - 5 x 1K at 3.45 this morning, and I was struggling badly after one, though managed to get through, albeit with much longer recovery inbetween. I too have struggled to find a track, or a flat path etc - I have settled on a quiet bit of pavement that is 800-900M long so I can judge my distances easy, and when I run at 6.30am it is always deserted so it works really well for me. Other thing I am learning is when I try and sprint the intervals I really struggle, as I cannot sprint that far - however when I get into my head that I can glide I find I hold the pace much better and am more efficient.
Thanks Astride and everyone for your posts re this. It's really got me thinking but to hell with it, I'm doing 20 miles this weekend as I'm quite enjoying the Furman schedule. I got injured last year (torn calf) late February and by the time I had recovered enough to run again had lost alot of fitness and managed only one 20 miler before the marathon with a 1 min walk break every 5 miles. My calf was still a bit dodgy on the day but I had a charity place and didn't want to let them down. I just wonder if I had done a couple of 20 milers earlier if that would've helped. As you say by mid-late schedule I was running out of time. It will be interesting to see what Liz replies to your post. It's still 5 x 20 milers, just spread out a bit more, which I feel will also suit me better. I just panicked a bit when I read it! Also Liz is saying she would only be at about 1 hour 40 mins just now - that would be about 11 or 12 miles for me!
I'm the same as you guys with the intervals, struggling with the pace and short recoveries a bit but I'm still trying hard! Got my tempo run tonight - I quite enjoy them and seem to hit the target times more easily. Oh I hope I haven't gone and jinked my run now!
P.S. The Rat - I read your 5 x 1k at 3.45 this morning to mean that you were running at 3.45am!!!! Doh! I get it now!
Furman suggests my 1k reps should be at 3:33 pace - I'm not sure I could do one at this speed but possibly something to aim for towards the end of the 16 weeks. I did mine at the weekend in 3:48, which is actually my 5k race pace, and I was pleased with that. The Rat gives some good advice. I think the aim is consistency across all 5 reps. Try starting at a nice comfortable tempo pace then gradually start to crank it up a bit after a few hundred metres.
Not Greased - sounds like a very sensible plan for me. If you long runs and interval runs you are trying to keep pace with, how are you assessing your pace? From a recent race or from your planned marathon time. I struggle to get the interval times - anywhere near in fact - but I usually do the LSR's quite comfortably.
Lou7 - I'm not sure Liz fully answered my question but its really hard to know where she's soming from. I also understand that it's hard for her to give advice to people without knowing their running background too. It possibly is a gamble to run 20 this early on and to be honest you do start to get sick of them by the 4th or 5th one but I'd imagine you would whenever you do them. It's great when the last one is done though.
I love how we all trust a schedule in a book based on 20 years of science rather than a single professional runner - being famous doesn't make you all knowing!!!!!!!!
Reydon Rover - Were you wearing your twin skins - these can actually create blisters if they crease or roll up and extended long runs do find out weaknesses....- I'd stick to your thorlos for the long runs.
As for when I change my socks? without fail after a run!!!!!
As for the intervals - I get the feeling none of us are running on a track which considerable aids the pace so we should cut ourselves some slack. Astride is right, consistently paced intervals that you have to work (cruise) hard on will give good returns and improve running economy and psychologically make the long pace seem slower. I'm missing the longer interval paces by a couple of seconds - I pu it down to slope variation, asphalt not track and age!
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