A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Quite anxious about this weekends run in all honesty... From my heart rate numbers last time I checked, I should be aiming for around 176 on a brisk run.

My concern is that with all the training I've been doing, I'm barely hitting over 180 flat out, yet my initial MHR was 196. I appreciate what was said before about my low range getting stronger, but over time and training is my MHR expected to reduce too? Or is it because so much of the training has been at relatively low HRs that I'm no longer as conditioned to run at high HRs?

My speed at the lower HRs is definitely quicker - I'm around 1km/h faster at similar HRs to where I was only a few weeks ago, but should I be working harder or should I just aim for a "feel" for effort until I can reassess my MHR?

Any advice or help gratefully appreciated

Hi Andy. The way you train is obviously a personal thing but I have to say, all that Heart rate stuff would do me crust in!

I just run by feel mainly. I do keep a check on my pace but I'm not looking at my garmin every few minutes. I seem to have a good judge of pace, i.e i run at a pace that feels right, then after a while I check my pace and it's usually very close to target pace.

I have different concerns for my LSR this weekend. After a 6 mile tempo run the other night, I'm getting a twinge in my hip that feels very much like an ITBS injury I had about 18 months ago . Will be taking it very steady tomorrow.

Ive always just run on feel. Like an automatic pacer of running just inside the pace I can manage for the run Im doing. Tuesdays run had my body over ruling my heads earlier decision to run easily, as I surprised myself running hardish up the hill. Out at 7 today n ran harder up the hill n then took it easier coming home for 7.43 miles at 8.08 pace. I think its 8 weeks til our half race, so thatll creep up.

Dundee drew 1-1 with leaders Ross County today which probably means we wont win the league. I'm becoming a Woking fan now..

Good luck all long runners tomorrow.

LS

Hi Luke - this is a new approach to training linked with the SportsTrack Software and my Garmin 305. I've followed training programs by "feel" before and whilst I have seen improvements, I can see much more complete results using my HRM and Garmin. This is the first time I've followed a training program this closely and I just wanted to use science this time around.

So far the results have been very encouraging. The heart rate stuff is easy - the software analyses my Garmin when I get in and I can see every little detail about my run. The heart rate ranges are from this website, and I've been using them quite well until I saw I had this 15m brisk run

Thankfully, I completed the 15m this morning. Some of my best splits were just past the half way mark, but I put that down to the fact that it was the flattest part of the run. The last couple of miles felt incredibly hard though - like there really wasn't anything left in my legs. It took a lot of stretching and drinking fluids and re-fuelling to start to feel normal again, and I haven't felt like that at the end of a long run in ages. 

Still, tomorrow is a rest day for me and my body seems reasonably confident that it needs it!!

Hi all

Looks like the training is generally going well

I didn't run for 10 days because of the heat and humidity so I'm going to do 16 miles today and hope that isn't too far or I'll never get up to 20 miles before race day.  I've just over 6 weeks to go and the panic is starting to set in!

Hi all

AM - I'm in the "run by feel" camp with Lm and LS, but I've dabbled with science in the past, including HR monitoring. I've never read anything that conclusively says that your MHR reduces with anything but age (btw don't place too much trust in '220 - age', its way off for me), whereas your resting (RHR) will reduce with fitness. However, what I noticed from average HR during races was that even during short intense runs like 5k and 10k - where I'd expect my HR to be pretty high throughout - this reduced slightly as I got fitter/faster, just a few beats and perhaps not consistent (every day is different). So what your seeing is probably an efficiency saving, you've probably taken a massive fitness leap with increased training and your HR is unlikely to get so near to your maxHR in any run. I didn't record maxHR very often during training, but I never usually got that close to it. If you feel ok during intense sessions, despite lower maxHR and the pace is comparable or better than before your marathon training, then I wouldn't be too concerned - marathon running is all about running efficiently and keeping the HR from drifting up as long as possible. When the marathon is done and you concentrate on training for something shorter and sharper you'll probably find that during the race you'll get closer to that MHR figure, but average will be lower than in previous races of the same distance, as your legs and core are more conditioned to being placed under strain.

LM - Hope it all went ok? Lots of twinges in a marathon training progarm usually, not many serious, though overdooing things is very possible if you increase mileage overall, or of your long run too quickly. This gets better with each marathon training campaign as most peoples average mileage increases so they retain better muscle memory.

LS - I'm expecting sub-8 for your next hill run

CR - Good 10miling. With your fell running background, are you finding it hard to adjust to more running on tarmac/concrete? e.g. sore feet. After doing mostly trail for a long time, even a slight shift in momentum to harder surfaces has given me various aches and niggles.

bec - Don't panic. How much longer do you have to face the heat/humidity? Could you do some early morning or late evening runs? If you can face that and get some decent training in you'll find the marathon easier. Always suprised me how much the heat effected me at London marathon, even on not really hot days (15c or so), just because its a few degrees cooler in Hull usually, more breeze, the heat kicks up a notch in April and the heat generated by so many hot bodies around.

Since my last look in; SAT before last: 18.4m night/morning run on blubberhouses moor (nasty wind), MON: recovery run, TUE: 9m hill run, WED: recovery run, THU: 5 x 2k @ 10k intensity with 1min breaks and long Warm Up and Cool Down with club (very tough), SAT: 22m on canal towpath from Keighley to Leeds (flat, slightly downhill). Brings the four week average over 49m at the moment, best marathon training mileage I've ever done, easier paced and on the feet trail miles are really helping I think.

Well done everyone - keep it up!!

Another week done, 32 miles in total with an 11m LSR at stupid o clock Satuday am... 1st 5m @ 8m 55m, next 6@ 8m 20s.

My 3hr 45min training plan generally consists of 5 runs a week (Midweek - 1x intervals, 1 x increasing distance slow run (around 9m miles +), 1 x steady run (approx 8-8m 15s), 1x LSR (approx 9m-9:15m miles), 1 x 4m slow run.  

Is there a higher risk of injury doing this or does it mean his target should be quicker than 3:45?

Arnie, I think it all depends on what happens to you when someone pins a number on to you!  My other half joins me for some of my training runs and is definately quicker than me.  I have talked him into a couple of races and I always beat him comfortably as he goes at the same pace in a race as he does in training, I on the other hand have a very competative edge which kicks in on race days and I run about 1 min quicker per mile.(based on 10k).   All that said if your mate can keep up the 8 min miles for the marathon then he's on for 3:30!

Arnie - Even if he can stick with that pace when close to 20m for an LSR, it could all go wrong in the next 6.2 quite easily. It's true that a few seconds too fast in the early miles adds to a whole lot slower than desired pace later on. This is noticable even in quite a short session, if you've ever done the first few intervals in a session a bit too fast and had a big slowdown in the last few.

This is even without hitting the wall, which can cause a reduction in pace of more than a few minutes per mile as your body struggles to start burning a higher percentage of fat, even slowing you to a walk (which for most is not much faster than15-min/per mile). Stick to your plan, the structure and balance is what should give you the endurance without breaking you before race day.

Just had to phone my other half to get him to come and pick me up after 15 miles because I was exhausted I think I might have to abolish any notion of a good time and just go for getting round it is my first marathon and I can worry about times in the future.

Some good running go on here...well done everyone!

On the LSR pace, I think almost 10min/miles is a little slow. I know LSRs are supposed to be slow but if you want to achieve sub 3.45, I think some quicker stuff is required in the LSR.

It might be worth having a quicker mid-section? So for miles 5-15 in a 20 miler, aim for 8.30 or 9.00 min/miles. Having some longer miles in there at what will essentially be race pace will train your body to get used to that pace.

Keep up the fast pace work in the mid-week runs but gradually increase those distances e.g. if your tempo session was on a 5 mile course, increase it by half a mile each week. I got up to 12 miles on my tempo session and it worked wonders (along with the increased distances on intervals and doing at least 6 x 20 mile LSRs before the race).

Best piece of advice I ever got on this thread. A marathon is a race of two halves, the first 20 miles and the final 6.2. Preparation for the other side of the 20 mile threshold is EVERYTHING!!

Good luck everyone, keep going!! 

SB

Hello people, thank you for all your prior advice. I've not been doing any training for the last months or so due to a dodgy knee, just started seeing the physiotherapist to try and sort it out, so I'm going to pull out of this years marathon and keep my entry for next year due to injury. The way I see it, I want to do well and get lots of sponsorship for macmillan so I intent to get in tip top shape for next year, which I hope will be the case.

I will keep you informed of my progress anyway. Haven't been for a run in 3 weeks, so I'm gutted to say the least - but hopefully good things come to those who wait.....