Sub 3:45 Group
Little Stoker, thanks for your comments and well done on you 2008 race. Its a good point you make. I think the slow runs should have helped the aerobic engine and the faster ones should help the confidence )
Simon, sounds like a tough choice, but think your doing that your doing the right thing. A year to get right, get strong and build up with have yousorted.
Little Stoker, some good comments - I regularly wonder how by doing long runs at say 9mm could I then xfer that in the race itself to 8:30s? I know I will have done alot of other tempo / interval stuff to increase the speed side of things but even still......
My last LSR was 11miles. Because I do them at stupid o clock on a Saturday am, I don't seem to have the energy to just go out and run them faster, even if I did, I think it would seriously hamper my ability for the following weeks mileage.
However I split the 11 miles up - ran 5 miles at 9mm then for the last 6, ran them at 8:20s. It meant I eased myself in gently, but managed to get a good part of the run in at better than race pace without leaving myself too knackered for the coming days... I think as the LSR get longer this might be a strategy I stick with as it will then (hopefully) give me a bit more confidence come race day....
I have read its all about a mixture of running. If you do not do some of your LSR slowly then you do not gain the body benefits of adaption. Without this many folk blow up between 20-26 Miles. All the advice I read tells me that some long runs should have MP in them and some should just be Sloooowww = eg MP + 90 secs.
Just repeating the advice I have read. It seems contrasting info, but can seethe benefits of mixing it u pa little !!
Arnie - Do you have breakfast before you run? Ideally you want a good one at least 2 hours, preferably 3-4 before you run your LSR. If your running very early Saturday be necessity so can't get a decent sized breakfast digested before, x1.5 you evening dinner portyion the night before and have something light like a banana or some toast 30mins before you start your run.
LS is an example of somebody who is very good at very early, pre-breakfast run, probably because he's got used to training at that time. But, because I don't do it, I like most people lack an edge of speed in pre-breakfast runs. I could still run marathon pace, but not for very long or comfortably at this time. if you think about it, if its 12 hours since previous evening meal, you might have slept 6-8 hours of that and your bodies been using fuel to "rebuild" from the inside out during a lot of that time, so you really need a substantial energy top up before intense or prolonged exercise.
I'm going to play devils advocate against SB/LS advice and agree with AGF here. Running lots of marathon pace in most long runs is only a good plan if your following a minimal mileage, high intensity program like FIRST (which if I recall is 3/4 intense sessions per week and never really exceeds 35 mpw. It does help confidence to put some marathon pace in long runs, but only do this during an easier mileage, or cutback week, if your building or running mileages your not used to (i.e. first marathon, or return to high mileage after a gap of a year or more). If your following a 5-day or more per-week style plan like the RW ones used to be (not looked in a while). Then do your marathon pace in prescribed sessions, such as 10-12 'steady' or marathon-paced runs. Or skip a session and maybe do up to 15m at this pace (or slightly faster) - I wouldn't recommend more.
I'm not saying a fair chunk of marathon-paced mileage in your LSR won't work, but its best in a plan where some mileage has been traded for intensity. If I recall SB, did you set your, very good, PB off quite low mileage per week?
Thanks for the advice Drunken....
I normally have a bowl of porridge, slice of toast with peanut butter, glass of OJ and an energy gel...but the most I have run at 6am on this brekky is 13.1m, which was the week before my 16wk plan started... I do my LSR at that time simply to minimise the impact on family life (i.e. 2 kids demanding my attention from the minute they wake...!!)
I don't think I would run every LSR with a 'marathon paced' chuck in the middle...and every 4th week as you say could be a good suggestion when the mileage has been slightly reduced....especially as you say, this is my 1st marathon...!
4th week in so far, mileages been 26, 32, 33 and a 28 this week and feeling good so far - all runs done, just a little bit tired...!
Arnie - Been there, first marathon (2005) training was a right topsy-turvey affair for me. Some of the LSRs were killers, I missed a fair few runs injured or aching. Weekly mileages from xmas were: 15, 19, 22, 28, 19, 31, 28, 20, 37, 35, 23, 39, 22, 20, 40 (inc marathon).= 4:11
2nd attempt (2006) I got injured and withdrew. 3rd attempt (2007) training was so much easier - hit over 40mpw 3 times and 50+ once = PB by 25mins. 4th (2008) didn't live up to 3rd. 5th (2009) was an improvement, but not by much (I blame working too hard at this time, on top of hard training. 6th was a non-serious run at Snowdonia (autumn 2009) a few weeks after my first trail multi-day stage event (3 maras in 3 days on South west coastal path), despite big hills and tiredness I was quite happy to sub-4.
Then I gave up road marathons until now. Hopefully the experiance I've gained from lots of trail ultra's, multi-day stage races and strength/endurance from far bigger training miles will make no. 6 a decent improvement.
My Weekly mileage leading up to brighton this year has been, 42,47,43,51,40, 28, 45, 50, 45. This week will be 52. This is circa 25% increase on my first marathon when I did 4:09.
I am hoping that this increased mileage ( which has helped me lose 1/2 stone too) will help me improve to around 3:45 based on similar theory to DEOT's experience above. It has helped me to 2 PB's already this year (10m= 73mins and 12km=53 Mins) ....so I am hopeful ....... but we will see...
A 5km Race on Saturday will see if this slow running has helped when it comes to running at speed? ( as per hadd theory )
My last marathon was in 2009. I went from 3.47 (2006) to a PB of 3.25. If it hadn't been so bloomin' hot I'd have hit sub 3.20. I was 41 years old and doing around 45 miles PW at my peak in March and early April and running 4 times each week.
The runs were LSR, Recovery, Tempo, Interval.The Tempo and Interval session had increased distances each week, starting from 5 milers in January to an epic 12 mile tempo on a Tuesday night in April at 6.52 pace. I made sure I did at least 6 a 20 mile LSRs.I did a 3 week taper3.25 was 7.50 pace. My LSR pace started at 8.25 but on the final 22 mile LSR before taper, it was 8.10 pace. I ran these on feel rather than religeous clock watching. I knew it was not my race pace.They were run early on Saturday mornings and I could only ever face a banana for brekkie. I got friendly with SIS Go gels to help me round as well as a bottle of Lucozade Sport in one hand and water (in Lucozade Sport bottle) in the other.
On getting home I would have a recovery drink made of water and Nuun tablets (look 'em up!)
I tried to keep that campaign as relaxed as possible. I learned LOADS from my 2006 experience, discovered what worked for me and the results were extremely pleasing.
A good mate ran with me in 2009 in his first ever marathon, followed my plan and did a 3.27...it works but may not work for everyone. he did the same plan last year and did 3.15...GIT!! (I didn't get in)
I hope that helps and gives encouragement.
Go for it!!!!!
Some cracking stuff there Drunken and AGF, well done.....!!! Keep up the good work...
Week 4 of training plan done - total 33 miles with a 11m LSR. Before the weekly mileage starts to really increase, decided to split the LSR up a bit, first 5 @ 9m miles and the last 6 @ 8m miles....now the weekly mileage goes up and the long runs get longer! 12 weeks to go...
I never thought I would say it, but I have to admit, although a bit tiring, the LSR at 6am on a Saturday morning is becoming quite enjoyable - a nice time of the day to run....!!!
Some good running going on, keep it up, gang!
Arnie, I know what you mean. The toughest part of doing a 20 miler at 6.00am is getting up to do it. Once out the door, it's a great time to run.
After spending all morning getting soaked at the the side of a football pitch yesterday, I went for a rain soaked 7.6 miler with a few bumps along the route for extra effort. I love running in the rain and thoroughly enjoyed yesterday.
Looking at my stats, I only did two 7.6 milers last year...and the were my longest runs! Oh the shame!!Mind you, I was recovering from the bone reshaping in the hip but nevertheless, I've be playing too much football and finding reasons not to run more. So, I'll be upping my distances over the next couple of weeks and structuring some speedwork into the schedule.
To help motivate me, I'm buying a Garmin Forerunner 405. I've resisted for so long but a bloke in the office has one and I MUST have that gadget!!
Good LSRing all! AGF - Good back to back speed and distance.Arnie - Agreed earlier the better, morning runs are great. especially on a saturday so you know you've done your whole weekends hard training before lunch (or even breakfast).CR - But you're just spoilt for hills in your area, some good flatter pace coming on there.
SB.... yopu could have that.... but look at this!......
http://www.sweatshop.co.uk/details.cfm?ProdID=7929 - does the whole 'shebang' for all tri disciplines, navigation functions and a barometric altimeter. The gadg to have (if only I had the cash) - though maybe the altimeter and longer battery life are a bit of a specialist requirement, I'll give you that the 405 is sleeker.
I have spent a bit on a gadget, not for marathon running though, but for the longer challenges to follow... http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/produkte/html_highperformance/html_Hserie/h7R.php?id=h7r
Visit the official Runner's World page
Follow Runner's World on Twitter
Other Natmag-Rodale Sites
Run For Charity
About Runner's World
Runner's World is a publication of Hearst Magazines UK which is the trading name of The National Magazine Company Ltd, 72 Broadwick Street, London, W1F 9EP. Registered in England 112955. All rights reserved.
Website powered by: Immediate Media Company Ltd. | © Runner's World 2002-2013 |