A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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22/09/2013 at 22:50

Welcome back Puffster and Mara!! I'm doing Brighton in april so we can compare campaign notes throughout the winter. 

Unlucky Stoker, that's comedy sketch right there. I bet the next date will be less stressful as a result.

Did my first ever 5k race today as part of a triathlon relay event at Thorpe Park. Did it in 20.38 which was a real surprise as I've not done much speedwork and had a horrific hangover yesterday after too much red wine on Friday.

Time to start the long runs.


24/09/2013 at 11:55

Get in! 5 months since the last TOTP and I can claim it. Let's not leave it so long till the next one.


24/09/2013 at 21:29

Smashin' 5k Badge. For a gangling fat lump, youve certainly got the speed.
Just back from my run in the drizzle n dark. Did a new 8.6 mile route with a mile long steep hill in the middle on Saturday, n ran it cautiously at 8.18 pace. Did it again tonight n felt stronger n more confident of taking on this hill n ran it at 7.52 pace with a fair bit left in the tank. It'll be interesting to see how much faster I can do this route over the next 8 weeks before Glau Coma. Certainly toughens up the legs for the hilly parts of that half. Unless its blowing a gale, it'll be all outdoor runs now n no more gym. I plan on doin' a few 13-15 milers, n try n introduce some lung bursting shorter stuff as well
We're gonna have another go at meeting up n going to the cinema tomorrow night...
I'll keep you all informed.
I remember back in the day when we could rattle off a page a day, n I once got 4, or was it 5 TOTP's on the spin.


26/09/2013 at 19:05

Had to return books to the library today, so went to the gym next door. So much for all outdoor runs.. On the treadmill, set it on the hilly setting on level 2, for an undulating run, n did the 13.1 rolling miles at 8 min mile pace. Onto the exercise bike n did 8.8km in 20 minutes. Just eaten a mountainous pile of tea, so I reckon Im just about maintaining my current weight due to my Momma's cooking!?

Time to ring the missus n have an argument about her wanting to let my naive 15yo daughter have a private twitter account that we cant monitor. Somehow, she has over 1200 followers, but we're not invited? If I dont get access, I'll be confiscating her iphone this weekend. I'll maybe give her it back for her Christmas, if she's good.


29/09/2013 at 19:04
Good 5k SB. But more importantly, nice totp.

LS, you cant mention your date one day and then not report back on how it went? Or have you been locked in a cellar as someone's sex slave???
01/10/2013 at 22:16
How long should we wait before reporting a missing person?
01/10/2013 at 22:37

He's probably handcuffed to a bedstead somewhere in Fife...


02/10/2013 at 13:26

Fife-ty Shades of Grey?



02/10/2013 at 19:39

Like buses....
Wait for ages then 2 come along at once.
And I dont mean you gossiping plums!
The date went ok. Just ok. We'll see if it gets better, but she's got some big drama with her ex n her daughter to deal with.
In the meantime, Ive got chatting to this lovely girl who lives in Dundee, and we should be meeting up again sometime next week, as she's just had an op on her foot. Slim, blonde, 41,lives on her own in a lovely house, and has a penchant for milky white thighs n men who shit in the woods....
Regarding the running, I seem to be improving. Blowing a hoolie up here yesterday (very windy), so I opted for the peace of the gym. Set the treadmill on hilly, level 2 n the pace at 7.53's, n did a half no problem, then 20 minutes on the bike, then watched Scott Brown kick Neymar.

Stoker, who someday soon hopes to be handcuffed to a bed!

08/10/2013 at 17:07

Hi guys I wanted some advice on how to get 3.45 but now am slightly concerned about the bed-handcuffing conversation going on! Especially because you are NEVER going to run 3.45 while handcuffed to a bed.

Anyhow here goes: I have a background in being active, I have dabbled on and off in runnning in the past but nothing serious. I have started training with some regularity exactly one year ago and have just ran my 3rd marathon (the first one without a disaster in a form or other) in 3.52.49. Not a challenging course but it felt like I was just jogging it until the last 3km when I got a little tired. Pace was quite consistent and I faded about 4 minutes between the first half and the second.

I would like to run 3.45 or nearby in a spring marathon and get my GFA (sub 3.50 for my age, if things do not change).

I do not do any speed work and run 4 times a week, the way it works for me is to run relatively long in these 4 days and I aim to run at least 80km every other week. I do really long runs because I like them. I run up to marathon distance on my own, very slowly (6.30 min/km).

In short, I would like to hang out with you guys!

(And, ah, I have also run a mini 50km ultra and aiming to attempt the wall ultramarathon  this summer)


08/10/2013 at 17:59

Hey Babs.
I hope this thread gets going again. When I was training for my first marathons in 2007, n 2008, it was a huge help, as there were maybe10-15 regular posters who kept it moving every single day. This last year its died off, so maybe there is a rival thread that the traffic has gone to. I targeted 3.45, and ended up running maybe 23 miles of it with a lady off here. She did 3.40 and I came in bang on 3.43. It was a perfect run on a perfect day in London 2008 for my first ever marathon. My training was very unscientific. I ran 3 times a week. Did a 10 miler Wednesday, a 10 miler Friday, then my long run Sunday. Did 7 runs of 20 miles or over in the run up to the race. By then I was flying, and these were between 8.15 n 8.40 pace. My 10 milers just naturally got ever faster, with the quickest being 7.10 pace, but normally 7.25ish. 4 days rest a week, meant I enjoyed every run and was fresh for every run. Change the number in the address for this page, n it will take you back. Keep readjusting it until maybe Winter-Spring 2007-2008 to find the best time on here n read the posts. A few of us keep popping in here, but we're no experts. It was more an online social club that helped keep us motivated. And it worked.

The km thing bamboozles me, but it appears that youve just about cracked it. Ive only done 3 marathons. A perfect 3.43 in 2008. A food poisoning affected 4.24 in 2009, and a zombie finishing 4.05 in 2010.

Good luck with everything anyway Babs.

ps no word yet on the cuffs, but yesterdays date went unbelievably well, and although she should be WAY out of my league, she thinks Im a definite keeper!!


09/10/2013 at 09:26

Welcome aboard, Babs. as Stoker says, we're a couple of stalwarts keeping this thread alive and to have new blood for next spring's marathons is most welcome.

I came on here years ago after a a 3.47 at FLM06. I was an outcast for a while as Stoker would tell me I was an interloper and not worthy of the sub 3.45 thread. I introduced speedwork and achieved a 3.25 at FLM09.

That campaign highlighted various injury woes which ended up with me having a lump of bone shaved off my hip joint. I did the Paris Marathon back in April and got another PB of 3.23. being a 46 year old codger, that time gave me a Boston qualifier but I won't be using it (apart from bragging rights) and have Brighton lined up next April.

I was burdened with injury woes again this year. I did well to PB in Paris but should have gone sub 3.20. Stupidly over-trained and did nasty things to my achiles and calf. However, it taught me loads and I have a cunning plan to beat 3.20 in Brighton.

Unfortunately Babs, speedwork and hill work are the only ways to get you below 3.45. It should be easy for you as you run more than I do. I plan on doing 3 road runs per week (LSR, Intervals and tempo) with an optional 5k session on the treadmill down the gym where I also do lots of core strength.

Stay tuned, we'll have a blast on here!!


09/10/2013 at 12:09

Hey I am also old and my 3.52 marathon is also a Boston qualifying time... let us have a chorus of bragging then (however I am seriously considering travelling to Boston in 2015...).

Thank you Little Stoker, I am going to read back to 2008 on the thread! And good luck with the dating.

Sporty Badger - I agree that hills and speedwork are the way to get faster, but I am concerned I may not be 'there' just yet.

With relatively high mileage (I have averaged 45 miles per week this summer, including the low-mileage tapering weeks) I have had (fingers crossed and everything crossed, touch wood, etc. etc.) ZERO injuries! (and it is interesting that in your account Sporty badger injuries come after you introduce speedwork...)

I would really like to have behind me a year of consistent 50 miles per week before I start introducing faster miles and reps. Do not know if it makes sense to you guys.

You see, I can do 8.30 miles during the race easily, it is to keep there after the 24 mile mark that becomes a challenge so my thinking is that I need to improve my endurance and stamina before I practice getting quicker or I shall start the marathon at suicide pace and then blow up!

In short, as I have read somewhere on here, speedwork is the icing on the cake, but my cake ain't baked fully yet.

So go on guys, slaughter me.



09/10/2013 at 14:05

You're right in that speedwork can cause problems but there have been occassions when I got it right and hit decent PBs, especially when I did my 1.30 half marathon. The reason I got injured this year was stupidly running in the snow for 20 miles in off-road shoes. Sometimes enthusiasm gets the better of me. Still, lessons learned, I still hit a PB and I will be mixing it up and doing LESS running in preparation for Brighton.

Currently I'm running 3 times per week. Your average per week is what I have averaged per month since April. I will hit 60 miles for October and 70-80 through November as I get my longer runs up to 10 miles. Yesterday I did 6 miles with 378ft of it uphill. I have done that run for the last 3 weeks and can already feel the benefit of the extra strength. Tomorrow will be an interval session on a 5 mile flat circuit with 1 mile w/up - 10 x 45 sec bursts with 90 sec recoveries - whatever distance left will be w/down.

Next week I'll up that to one minute bursts and over the coming weeks build up to mile reps with 2 or 3 min recoveries. I see these intense sessions as training for the final 10k of a marathon but it does also allow me to have a quicker yet  'comfy' race pace. That's how I got from 3.47 to 3.23, the only difference this year is to not be so intense about it, be smarter and train injury free.

I should also state that I don't just dive into speed sessions like the one above. For the past few weeks I've been doing casual fartlek sessions and the occassional tempo run.maybe you could build these into your runs? You want sub 3.45 so how about running the last couple/few miles of a run at 8.35 pace? That's not big speed for you from what've said above and it does take out the sudden impact element of diving into sprint sessions?

If I hit the qualifyer in Brighton, I'll see you on the plane to Boston 2015.  


09/10/2013 at 14:11

Hi everyone

Stoker - glad the dating is going well. It's those milky whites that does it I bet

Sporty - nice 5k there, but I can't believe it's your first ever! Do you have a parkrun anywhere near you? Great to use those every now and again for a tempo run.

Barbara - welcome! I know what you say about wanting to get the miles in, but I would seriously re-consider the speedwork thing. Yes, you do need to be careful to avoid injuries - so start very gradually. I'm like Sporty - I do one interval session and a tempo or threshold run every week, but I also run 5-6 days in the week so can fit it all in. For you if you are running 4 times a week I would just use one of those for speed work - alternating weeks doing intervals and then tempo.  Or even doing one of the sessions once a fortnight would help.

For intervals I prefer longer reps for marathon training, so try something like 3 or 4 times 1km at (say) 4.30 minutes per km, with very slow jog recoveries (about 2 minutes) in between.  Over the weeks you can add a couple more fast reps to the mix. 

Then for a tempo session try 2 or 3 reps of 10 minutes at around 5 minutes per km, again with some jog recovery in between.  Again over time you can build this up.

I don't think it sounds as though endurance can be the problem, if you can run up to marathon distance in training, because you'd be on your feet a long time for that. Honestly, speed work will help

If it helps I've done 6 marathons - the first one I will gloss over because it was horrid, but after that I ran 3.47 in 2009, with pretty much no speed work), then 3.33, 3.24, 3.29 (hilly) and then this year ran 3.16 in London. With each one I have concentrated more on the quality/speed sessions, so that now my natural marathon pace is that much quicker. And I am also old (45)

09/10/2013 at 15:21

I forgot about your 3.16. Awesone time for an old bird!


10/10/2013 at 11:25

Thank you all!

Sporty badger - I loved your idea of picking up the pace towards the end of a run. And wow you must be so talented to run these times on low mileage! I 'need' high mileage for the following reasons:

*I like it! I start to really enjoy a run after the first 10km are gone! It's when I hit the 1.30-2 hours that it 'does it' for me!

* I have a tendency to 'emotional eat' and to get a bit lardy! High mileage helps me to stay lean (like all runners I wish I were leaner but it's a toss between pizza and being skinny and pizza will always win. sigh.).

* I have gone through a lot of stress in the past year, I nearly divorced (do not commiserate me, I was the b*tch at fault) and honestly if it was not for the calming and zen-like effect of the long runs I would have thrown myself under the Eurostar. Or packed my bag and jumped on it!

Freemers - OMG you are a SUPERSTAR! From 3.47 to 3.16 - that's brilliant! I know boys half your (our) age who would happily sacrifice their gonads for a time like that! What you say makes a lot of sense and I was noticing today when I was running that while my respiratory system is already recovered and strong after the marathon but my legs still hurt and I think it is because my muscles are not used to pound faster.

Now, I have club runs on wednesday night that are a bit of a race in disguise and I don't really like them too much (mostly because they are inthe evening and I like running in the early am) but after all your feedback i am going to force myself to get there every week and run those 6 miles fastish.

Lastly, loved your idea of the km reps although I must confess I still have to see how a 4.30 min/km looks like!

So thank you all and I will keep you posted,


10/10/2013 at 11:28

Ah f.c.k. I forgot I am away at a conference next week!!

I change my pledge:


(quitter already!)

10/10/2013 at 12:24

Talking of quitting. I'm currently stuffing my face whenI should be out on a run. left my Garmin at home, my colleague who I'd planned to run with can't make it and I really can't be bothered, especially as my back injury is niggling a bit.

So, it's into the gym on the way home for intervals on the treadmill. 10 x 400m with 60 sec recoveries awaits followed by a mega core strength session.

Lazy Bar Steward


10/10/2013 at 12:33

You lazy bar steward

I went for a 12.6km slow run (=shuffle) this morning ...

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