A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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10/03/2004 at 12:20
Twin Dad - I'd suspect that rather than racing the 20 flat out, you'd be better off doing what I did last weekend and doing it at your best estimation of marathon pace. During the last few miles you can evaluate (a) whether you can hang on for another six miles at that pace and (b) whether you could have gone quicker. My race took a lot more out of me than an ordinary, slow one, and a flat-out race would have been a killer. On the other hand, as you suspect, it's a great boost to have done it. So I'd say 8:15, not 8:00, then do the rest more like 8:45. Well, that's my plan anyway!

Quick other point - going off fast and hanging on is one thing in a shorter race (or even in a 20), but a marathon is another thing altogether. Once you're out of glycogen, you're stuffed, and 22 miles fast then four miles walking isn't going to get you your quickest time. Steady early on, says the theory.
10/03/2004 at 12:21
"then do the rest more like 8:45" - I mean the rest of your long runs.
10/03/2004 at 12:44
Twin Dad, I have a 20 mile race a week on Saturday, so it's interesting to hear what you're planning on doing.

I am going to try to take it at marathon pace (8.5min miling) and see how I do. Hopefully there will be some milemarkers so I can guage my pace. This will be my longest run to date, so we'll have to wait and see. Fingers crossed...

On another subject, what socks are you folks wearing for big race?
10/03/2004 at 13:09
Now we're onto the real issues!

I'll be running in my special thick, cosy Hilly socks. Mmm... non-blister-tastic....
Shoewise, I had nominated my newish Brookses, but I've been favouring them too much recently (over my older, knackered-er ones) and they've topped 230 miles. I've just christened a new pair, but will they be bedded in in time? Decisions, decisions.....

(club vest, dark blue Ronhill shorts, haven't decided on pants.....)
10/03/2004 at 13:23
i don't wear pants...sorry this was the kinkyrubber running rude forum wasnt it ??
10/03/2004 at 13:36
OK - for Sunday...advice taken...I think I'm going to try for an even paced 2.45. so therefore 8.15 pace for 20 miles It also looks like there is another couple of forumites doing the same thing (Ashby).

To clarify my earlier post....I do always slow down during a race / run ( no matter whether I start fast or slow...ie even on long slow runs). Therefore I was thinking of starting at 8.00 - 8.15 and perhaps ending nearer 8.30 - 9.00. So giving me an average of 8.30 ish for the whole run

Socks undecided - I now have 4 different types and I'm fairly indifferent between them
Shoe wise my Saucany Triumphs
Top Wise - the nice vest the British Heart Foundation sent me
10/03/2004 at 14:39
hi all

one thing i will be wearing on the day is loads of vaseline around the tender bits !!On my first FLM had to grab some off the St Johns Ambulance crew stood towards the end with handfulls of the goo held out to the suffering runners. I didn't stop running but it sure looked indecent as I slapped it on. Only other thought really is DO NOT wear anything you have not already run a 20+ in, the last 6 miles of the marathon is not the time to find out it rubs you raw.

Twin Dad, 8.00 to 8.15 mileing sounds pretty good to me, if you can keep that up for 20 miles you'll have a bit of leeway for the last 6.2 . Beware though, from experience I know just how much you can slow down at the end, last year i think i was around 10.30 for the last couple of miles ouch !!

Still, did my second speed sesh this week (yet again , aren't i good !), 9 laps fartlek of ilkley park averaging 3.15 as opposed to 8 laps at 3.30 last week, so hopefully still improving. Must admit feeling better at this stage than any of the previous 3 years, no major aches and pains, how is everyone else?

10/03/2004 at 15:02
Swerve - what is the "model" of your Hilly socks? I am still experimenting. I have done most of my running in bog standard ones with no problems. But then I got a bad blister 2 weeks ago, so I bought some Thorlos (are there diamind encrusted or something? they should be for that price!), but they are so ultra-padded that I'm not sure there are for me yet.

Shoes: I'll be wearing my Nike Air Span Triax. They've probably done a couple of hundred miles but they are going strong and I don't fancy get new ones at this stage.

Top: Cancer Research UK vest

Pants: Posing Pouch Thong with Elephant's trunk at the front.


I've just returned from a 1hr fartlek session. I felt fairly strong considering how crap I felt after my long run on Monday morning. HOWEVER, I am worried because on Monday a pain developed on the sole of my foot which I managed to run through without too much difficulty. However, today it recurred after about 1/2 a mile and was (and is still) quite painful. I think it developed because I went for a walk at the weekend in some awful shoes that killed my feet. Dammit.

I think I am going to rest now until my 1/2m on Sunday, and see what happens.

Any advice?

10/03/2004 at 17:45
Puggers, maybe a foot massage and having a rest sounds a good idea, also the Thorlo's, I bought a bag full in the States last year thinking they were the bees knees but they proved a disaster, the padding is so thick on the bottom that I lost several toe-nails through bruising, and they made my feet too hot, its Falke's and Hillys for me now.

Did some hill work today before heading for my first 20 miler tomorrow (18 has been my regular long run so far)feeling on top of things still so thats good (untill tomorrow)

Peter 3.15 fartleks sounds quick, well done, I've been persisting with 10 x 3.30 but might step up a bit as yesterday I did finish with more in the tank on mine (not in the can as I wrote yesterday,occured to me at the top of a hill today)

Gear, my NB'S which I bought Monday, Falke's, whatever shorts and a green NSPCC vest, good job its a good cause as the colour's cr*p. Does anyone use those belt things for bottles and stuff, any opinions, are they useful on the big day or annoying(just seen the article in this months RW Mag)

Anyone at Hastings Sunday
10/03/2004 at 20:08
While we're mentioning it, I've got my race shoes already for the day. I race and train in NB 764's and have 3 pairs on the go. My race pair I've only used three times for long runs runs only and not training at all otherwise in them. So by race day they will only have about 100 miles of wear.

I already know exactly what I'm wearing on the day: Powersocks, Black Adidas Shorts and a bright orange Nike T-shirt that I'm going to get my name printed on. The dilemna is should I include my forum nickname or not? I'm sure many runners will have seen some of my posts on these forums over the past couple of years so I was thinking maybe nickname and possible Table Tennis Man picture on back and with my real name on front.

I use a bottle carrier on my long runs and wore it all the way in my first marathon so I may use it again in the race if I can't get used to Lucozade. I'm going to try Lucozade Sport on my next long run to see if it goes down well.

I have to admit I'm not actually running for charity. I had thought about it but it's only just over 6 months since I last did the charity "scrounge rounds" on friends and work colleagues. I'll give them a break for a bit longer.
10/03/2004 at 21:23
Bottle belts - I have used one for all my long runs so far and it is handy. However, it does bounce around quite a lot. When I wear my waterproof jacket it sort of keeps everything together, but on the day of the race I'll only have my running vest so I haven't decided what to do.

Does anybody know how frequent there are water stations are? I presume there is water as well as Lucozade Sport. I thought if there are enough stations then I could ditch the belt because I'm happy carrying bottles for a while. I'm going to get myself a small bum-bag to put my energy bars and things in. What a girl eh?
10/03/2004 at 21:32
Go for the full works on the t-shirt, although I'm having the same thoughts, forum name or first name or something else entirely ! (what my wife calls me maybe, hmmm)
10/03/2004 at 21:45
Puggers beware the Thorlos socks. My sis sent me some last year & they felt heavenly so went off on a 2hr 40min run in them. Trouble is they are SO thick it made my running shoes rel tight & when I took them off my big toe nails came off too. I swear by Tesco sports socks. 3 for a fiver & not a blister cf Wrights/ 100mile etc when my feet fall apart

10/03/2004 at 22:05

Water is every mile (starts at mile3 I think). LS every 5 miles.

10/03/2004 at 22:34

As you may know, I ran my 1st ever marathon 5 weeks ago in 3.49 & am now looking to knock a bit of time off at the FLM.

My question is, what is the course like? I.e. hills/flat? My first marathon was virtually flat - a few gradual rises but nothing bad!
I am a little worried that I will be slower if London has a few hills!

Much appreciated for any advice that can be given.

Regards, Gareth
11/03/2004 at 08:50
morning guys/girls

I feel kind of ok but have a stinking cold -i read recently that you shouldn't run with a cold as it put additional strain on the heart - i ran on the treadmill last night and although i felt ok when the going got tough i had no resolve to continue and had to slow right down - your opinions welcome !!
11/03/2004 at 12:02
Hi all

Puggers sounds to me like the socks could be the culprit ,perhaps try without them and a goot foot massage is definately a good idea, i have a physio session on my legs every 4-6 weeks and it seems to keep problems at bay (even at the ripe old age of 46, 47 2 days after the FLM)

Freddo . have used a bottle bag for the last few years, but it's a good idea for a couple of practice runs with it first, didn't last year and ended up carrying the damm thing.

Smooth, it's fairly flat, a few incline's and up and down a couple of underpasses but certainly nothing you would call a hill so it's a pretty fast route ( using the word fast as a loose description)

adam , depends on the type of cold, if it's a head cold you should be ok to train but if it's on your chest the advice is Not to train until it's gone as overexerting will simply make it a lot worse.

what's the training for today? have done 2 speed sessions mon and tues so going for a nice easy couple of laps of ilkley park today.

11/03/2004 at 14:18
Thanks for the advice everyone. I had a massage at work today which was good. I was told off for being ultra-unsupple (and yes I do stretch after all runs). The masseur reckons that if he can make that better over the next few weeks I could run faster simply because my stride will be longer with no extra effort - interesting theory that had never crossed my mind!

I think I'll ditch the Thorlos and try some Tesco socks. I have also been running in some Morrison's own make which are fine - bargain at 4 for £2!! At that price they're almost disposable after each use!
ip(FeS2)    pirate
11/03/2004 at 14:26
Gareth, London is generally described as flat...(They say the biggest hill is crossing one of the bridges ).

Don't necessarily expect a pb though.- Everyone also says its incredibly crowded.
11/03/2004 at 18:35
I think the biggest hill is going up to Tower Bridge but I'm told the crowds there are 10 deep so they should help keep you moving (mile 13 anyway) also Bird Cage walk is a bit of an incline but everything will be hurting by then.

20 miles today in just over 2.45, all fine untill the last couple of miles predicatably but sill feeling confident, how can I fail in London on the day when I've managed 20 miles around the void of Harlow (it must be the town that stops other runners returning my Hello's) Why do I use this route, the cyclepaths are wide and kind of rural in places and no cars. I did however get a hello and do a lap for me from a mini cab driver picking up on route, how is it that a cab driver can be sociable but other runners not ?

Where did I put my good Karma...

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