A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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16/03/2004 at 16:27
Ashley - I'm in the similar position to you with regard to marathon tactics. I'm now certain I could hold on to 8 minute miles for at least 16-18 miles and possibly longer. I don't want to kid myself and run too conservatively.

Ashley, I don't suppose you want company do you? As I'm planning on saying hello to URWFRC at 18 miles as well so we could just see how well we could pick up the pace after that. There's every chance I'll die a bit of a death at 21 or so but even then I should still be well on course for 3:45 if I hold 8 minute pace up to about 20 miles.
16/03/2004 at 17:55
Hi Ashley - welcome to this jolly friendly forum! What's all this about the URWFRC at mile 18? I haven't looked at any other forums so don't know what you and PPB are on about! ;-)

BNTM, I feel a bit like you about the choice of pace - I don't think I will do another marathon (at least not for a long time), so I don't want to under-achieve, but equally I don't want to have a shocker and end up going over 4 hours! Hmmm...

And regarding my shoes, I'm nervous now about the washing machine - I've never done it before and had no idea it could wreck the cushioning. Wonder if just one wash would be enough. I ran in the shoes today and felt ok, although I was tired and stiff so difficult to judge. Perhaps I'll buy another pair of the same and break them in now - should get about 100 miles in between now and April 18th.

Get well soon to all you guys recovering from illness. Don't overdo it - there's plenty of time to get your edge back if you need to take a week off now.

16/03/2004 at 20:50
Ashley me old mucka, Good to c u on this thread. Am I to believe you've finally got yr head around what time yr gona do. I take it you've done another 20 since the Thanet. If you're comfy wid 20 at 8m/m sod killing yrself on the last 6. Drop to a Very comfy 8:20ish pace and go round with me, maybe we can do our sprint across d line, as I let the team down with my below par Thanet run.

I say 8:20 bcoz dats probs wat d RW Pacers will be doin, I wana stay pretty close to them if I can. I reckon Sub 3:45 will be very Comfy 4 you from what I've seen bud, However don't you think d 8m/m on the day could spell DANGER.

Hows the knee holding up? Pretty well I guess if you're thinking of an 8m/m pace.

take it easy bud

17/03/2004 at 08:36
question for you guys - this cold bath thing, should you then have a hot one afterwards or just stay cold ?
17/03/2004 at 08:40
morning all, I'm a bit like puggers, whats all this about URWFRC at 18 miles ? thats normally around the place where my wife and kids stand to shout encouragement on the day, might join in with the group hug for a double boost .

Have to say I'll probably try the Woony pace of 8.20-8.30 rather than 8.00, I've died a bit at the end for the last 3 times ( died a LOT on the first) so would like to finish this one on a bit of a sprint, we shall see.

Made the mistake of running with friends every day last week who were better than me and I can't help but try and keep up. Paid for it on saturday when the long run was a disaster (16 miles and knackered) so will be trying my first session on a running machine for more than 5 years. The theory being I can regulate my speed exactly. I've heard that running machines do not simulate road running exactly, useing slightly different muscles or something. Could this cause a problem using one at this late stage ??, don't want to suddenly crock myself


17/03/2004 at 09:03
adam I think the theory behind the cold bath is that it cuts down blood flow to the muscles thus preventing all the little muscle tears caused by the long run from being enlarged by the flow of blood . This in turn leads to alot fewer aches and pains. I'm not sure but I think a hot bath straight after may well increase the blood flow and cause all the tears to enlarge and bring on the aches and pains.

I tend to have a very quick hot shower on upper body to get rid of sweat/mud etc and then put it on cold just on my legs and it seems to do the trick without drastically cooling the rest of my body.

any thoughts anyone ?
17/03/2004 at 10:05
Good morning

Track last night was 32 200s with 45 sec recoveries. Mostly done in about 46 seconds (the 200s) so not great but felt shattered by the end.

Puggers with your shoes I reckon it largely depends on what setting the washing machine was on (fast spinning or not) as that must be the part that would damage cushioning. I had to wash a pair once and still did a number of miles in them afterwards. Maybe use those for shorter runs and get some new ones for longer runs and the big day if you're at all concerned.

I hope the RW pacers don't run at 8:20 pace! They're supposed to be running at 8:30.

I might need to migrate down to sub 4 thread I think as you'e all getting a bit speedy for me. PPB I hear you're planning on using Nell McAndrew as a pacer!

Do you realise we only really have 2 long runs left now?!
17/03/2004 at 10:11
Adam - Have always had a warm shower after a cold bath/shower on legs. Convinced hypothermia would set in otherwise. Cold bath is like the ice part of RICE. If the hot shower part is quick can't see it could reverse all the good of the cold bath.

Pete - I find treadmill harder on my calves. Lots of people say a small incline makes it more like road running - never bothered with this myself - hard enough just running on the spot in a humid environment I find! Can you do a short session on the treadmill initially and then schedule in a longer one another time if there are no ill effects?
17/03/2004 at 10:16
last night i worked on the treadmill for 40 mins. I warmed up for half a mile then did 400mm,800mm,1600mm,800mm,400mm at 9mph then a couple of miles at 7.5mph (5 miles total) and it was a killer - I run 3 times a week on my treadmill at home and it is hard due to heat (as donna said) and the boredam factor. Time just seeems to last for ever on it. The upside is that you can exactly pace your speed sessions. Though in some way it's easier i know that i can run eg a 1.46 half on the road and i know i could not get near this on the treadmill
17/03/2004 at 10:35
Adam, you're going to have to make those intervals longer than 1600 millimetres if they're to do any good!

Donna, no, you're flying too - don't you dare think of the sub-4 thread! But yes, lots of scarily serious speed happening here. Keep it up, folks.

Two more long ones for FLM-ers, none for me! But tapering hasn't really had any effect yet. I guess it will when I can stop at 15 miles this Sunday rather than do five more!
17/03/2004 at 10:42
Cheers Donna - I was a bit tongue in cheek on the Nell comment. But I wouldn't mind seeing her on the roads in London. Judging her pace though it seems unlikely.

I did about the steadiest run of my entire training last night. It was 9.5 Miles but talking all the way with someone so we didn't push too hard. By the end I worked out I had run dead on marathon pace (8:30 per mile) and it felt really comfortable.

I don't like running on a treadmill as I get terribly bored after a short period of time. I also tend to wobble a little so I have to concentrate to keep running straight and let my foot slip off the side. I only ever really used the treadmill for speed work. As I ran in a near blizzard a few weeks back it would take a lot for me to not go out on the roads these days.

Oh and no-one if allowed to migrate off this thread now - we've all come too far together through all kinds of injuries. It seems just about everyone has had some kind of injury or illness lately. Maybe our bodies are trying to give us a hint!

What long runs does everyone have left? I'm planning on doing 22.5 miles tomorrow night.
ip(FeS2)    pirate
17/03/2004 at 10:54
Hiya, just lurking really, but a number of you have mentioned not knowing about mile 18...

This is a good starting point

Basically a group of forumites who aren't running it set up a pitch at mile 18.- Their job is to keep an eye out for other forumites, give them a cheer and hand out any special goodies requested beforehand.-
I believe gin, tea, coffee and marzipan were among last year's list.
17/03/2004 at 10:56
i'm on this tread due to the company - i feel that 1.45 is gonna be slightly out of my grasp as all your half times seem so much faster than my 1.46.

nothing wrong with running 400mm - LOL
17/03/2004 at 11:27
3.45 i mean - dunno what's wrong with me today
17/03/2004 at 13:20
Hello all

Tomorrow being the 18th!! (becoming very real now) I'm planning to run into and back from work, about 12 miles each way, my way of thinking is that might add up to a long run, am I kidding myself ?

Treadmill last night, 10 x 800mtrs, started at 13.7, stopped after 3 because of aching shins/calfs but after a rub down got back on and finished the remaining 7 at 14kmph, I think the aching limbs might be a leftover from Hastings

On the cold bath topic, I always jump into the shower afterwards for a blast of hot water, I don't think it alters the treatment to the legs as they always feel chilled to touch still when I get out

How many 20+ runs have you all done now, I want to get two more in after tomorrow myself making six total ?

I have no idea if I belong on this thread or not really, first marathon and my 5 paced runs point to 8.30 miles but have clue how I will cope from 18/20 onwards

Good running tonight

17/03/2004 at 13:22
I fairly confident I'm on for a sub 3:45 but want to know how realistic people think this is...my longest run so far is 18 miles in 2h 26mins. I've no idea what to expect in the last 8 miles though (being my first marathon), so is sub 3:45 realistic or are the last miles REALLY slow?
17/03/2004 at 13:30
Hi all

Did 10 x 800m's last night at 3min pace with 2.5 min recoveries. With 2m warm up and warm down. Felt shattered afterwards but relieved that I managed it as I thought I might have lost some of my fitness over the last two weeks.

Going for 12 mile over the hills tonight at a gentle pace. Much mor fun.

I've now done 3 20+ runs with another two planned for this Sunday and next. After that a lot of speed session work and hill work. This Sunday will be 23 miles in hopefully 3hrs.

URWFRC stands for Unofficial Runners World Forum Runners Club. You can go onto the website and register at www.urwfrc.org (sorry can't do links). You put in your estimated race time and race number, then you will have a bunch of supporters at 18 mile point who will cheer you on.

Whats everyone got planned for tonight?
17/03/2004 at 13:37
Welcome, new people!

Freddo, sadly you are kidding yourself, according to the clever people who know about these things. Apparently you will be re-stocking your glycogen reserves during the day, thus eliminating one of the key elements of the long run - learning to burn fat rather than glycogen. Still, it's a very useful session.

Neil, yes, you're in the 3:45 ballpark. The last miles depend on preparation, pacing and one or two other things, but are likely to involve pain and extreme willpower. If you've gone off too fast, or under-trained, or not fuelled/watered yourself adequately before and during the race, you will essentially grind to a horrible, painful walk. The good news is that it only lasts an hour or two (or three?)!
17/03/2004 at 13:59
URWFRC is as stated in Fruit Cakes posting. For those who don't know you are members simply by posting here. There is a club kit (www.smithfamily.me.uk for phot of me in mine). There is a monthly meeting of minds in a pub in the west end where you can swap stories and generally get Pi@@@@.

Wooney, Thanet 20 on the Sunday, Club 10k Handicap on Tuesday 44.56 new PB. 19.5 miles with rucksack on the Friday... met my match in terms of distance, lack of water, lack of energy bars etc.

Going out for 10 miler tonight... lots of hills.

I think you guys are probably all right start off at say 8.20... stop for champers and hug at Mile 18 (oh and your forumite will supply any special requests if possable - register on www.urwfrc.org - a forumite supporter will be allocated to you by Ultra Meerkat thier job to give you support, jelly babies or other special request and generally a very loud cheer!) then head off from there at whatever pace I can manage - hopefully continuing the 8.20- pace.

So the list of people for this pace is

Ping Pong Boy
17/03/2004 at 14:05
Donna, dont be too put off by my 8:20 m/m suggestion. I dont kno anthing for FACT, all I know is they always used to like getting you UNDER THE CLOCK on time. Last year I stayed with the Sub 3:45 pacer upto 19 n 1/4 miles, this was at a pretty constant 3:39/3:40 pace. I died a slow death after that due to a previous foot injury + not being quite fit enough at the time. I dont kno wat dat work out per mile, I just guessed at 8:20ish, they may look at Chip time only these days(someone did say something about that) but even then expect something closer to 8:25ish maybe. Remember they wana get you SUB 3:45 and not dead on it. And back in 2002 when I did a 3;39:46 the Pacers went by me with about 1/2 mile to go so that would of been a similar pace then.

Donna PLEASE dont get TOO concerned about it from what Ive read over the past few weeks you'll be fine. Im confident that I'll go Sub 3:45 maybe even get a PB, and you've been running harder than I have and got more miles in. You did a good 1/2 last week when you were under the weather that is still more than good enough.

PETE, the TREADMILL in my closest running partner. He'll look after your joints beta that his Concrete cousin. Just set to a 1% inc. The whole thing about not equating to road running is all to do with foward motion. The inc gives you this.

Got an email 2day from Swiss bobby, he wants all Forumites to update there finish times on the URWFRC site. So you can be spotted and cheered on.

Take it easy people

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