A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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10/02/2004 at 14:12
God - I'm away doing some work and questions galore. I'm glad I started this now. Hi Gareth & Lars.

Swerve, my achilles is okay now. I completely gave up training for 2 weeks before 7 weeks before Loch Ness due to Achilles problems. The break and a very slow return to training seemed to solve the problem. I now "only" have a knee injury to worry about instead.
10/02/2004 at 14:16
Hi
I think I'm trying for this as well
I've done 3 halfs since september last year, the fastest being 1hr 45 mins. I'm currently doing 35-40 miles a week and am biulding up the long runs. Longest 19 miles last Saturday in 2hrs 49 mins. I'm planning to increase by a mile a week for the next few weeks hitting a max of 23 miles. The only race planned is a 20 miler on 14th March.
If I can carry on increasing the mileage at the same pace 3.45 should be possible.
Concerns
Can't increase milage at that pace ( I've currently had it at the end of my long run and any more miles at any pace is unthinkable)
It being hot on the day - this would probably slow me quite a lot
The mass start and crowding in the race - could turn a fit to do 3.45 into an actual 4 - I'd welcome thoughts on this
10/02/2004 at 15:01
Maybe tempted to go for 3:45, though in reality a sub 4hr time would be very good for me.

Some way off the distances you all seem to have run in your training, up to 13 miles, but I am due to run the Stamford 30k on Sunday, so that will be a real test for me as I hear that the course is quite hilly.

I'll see how it goes on Sunday before joining this group. I do plan to do the RW 20 mile run in Birmingham in March - and to run at 3:45 pace if all is well. Anyone else running in Birmingham (Sutton Park)?
10/02/2004 at 15:04
I'm doing the Sutton Park run but can't for the life of me remember whether I've registered with 3:45 or 4:00 group.
10/02/2004 at 15:21
Higs

me neither, do they have a print out of whose doing what are do you just join the group you fancy on the day?

See you there

10/02/2004 at 15:57
What's more I can't decide which group I'm hoping I did join!
10/02/2004 at 16:02
Higs - I think you need to be in the "sub-3:52:30" thread!

YB - see you at Stamford.
10/02/2004 at 16:05
I asked about changing groups on the day and apparently that's okay - they just need to get a rough idea of numbers.

I am planning to do Suttton Park but plan to run 8:30 miles which puts me in the 3:30 group as they are all running 30 seconds slower than target pace.

Need to see how it feels to run at that pace for that long and 20 miles should still make it a safe option.
10/02/2004 at 22:22
Hi guys

I am defecting here after a short stint in sub-4 land. Well done PPB for starting it up.

This is my first marathon, and my PBs suggest I should be able to manage 3.45:

5 miles 33.30
10k 43.30
1/2m 1.39.30

However, the long runs are tough - up to 2.5hrs last weekend (ran up a mountain so I don't think distance is relevant there!). I have a 1/2m race and a 20m race planned, and then about another 4 long runs of 3hrs+.

I am only running 3 times a week - about 30 miles max. I find if I follow the RW schedule and run 5-6 times a week I lose all my will to live. This way I manage to keep my motivation at least. Is everybody else doing more than me?
11/02/2004 at 08:47
Unfortunately I'm not doing the Sutton park run as I'm doing the Ashby 20 on the same day...pity I would have liked to do both
11/02/2004 at 10:54
I'm running more often than you Puggers though I don't go much over 30-35 miles normally in a week. Longest week so far this year has been just over 40 miles.

With knee problems lately I'm planning on trying something in my next Long Run this coming weekend. A guy in my running club completed a marathon in just outside 3 Hours 30 following a run walk program from the start. He ran 10 minutes then walked for two right from the gun and repeated this for the first 3 hours. I think I'll give it a try for 18 miles to see how it feels and see what sort of speed I'll maintain following such a session.
11/02/2004 at 12:05
Hi All

This is a close call - am I sub-4 or sub-3:45? Or will someone set up that 3:52:30 category?

My races towards the end of last year were:
- 10k - 46:57 (but done the day after a 22 mile rowing race - and I had aches in places where I never even knew I had muscles)
- 8.2 miles - 1:00:15
- 10 miles - 1:15:30

Anyone mind if I'm an occasional visitor here as well as in the sub-4 group?
11/02/2004 at 13:22
Hi BNTM

Your 8 and 10 mile race times are very good - I would ignore your 10k due to your rowing excuse.

If you can do 7.5 min miling for 10 miles, then you should have no problem doing the 8.5 min miling required to a 3.45 marathon -GO FOR IT!
11/02/2004 at 13:25
PPB, I read in RW about somebody doing the same as your friend (maybe it was the same person!) and it sounded like it worked very well. He had to endure a bit of p***-taking from the crowd in the early miles apparently - doesn't look too good when you are walking after only 10 mins! But who cares about that when you could silence critics with a sub-3.45 marathon!

As a matter of interest, have you worked out what pace each 10 minute running stint would need to be to achieve your goal?
11/02/2004 at 14:08
Puggers I'm running more than you - about 55 miles a week but the theory is that it's the quality of the sessions that matters. So providing you're doing the tempo and long runs should still be okay.

Too scared to try the theory out myself though.

I don't think I'd want to run/walk the marathon at the kind of pace you're talking about...

I reckon in 2 minutes you'd cover maybe 150 metres (maybe more, that's based on the sort of times at the track for recoveries). You'd end up walking for a total of 18 times (36 minutes) in which time you'd cover about 1.7 miles. Leaving you 24.5 miles to run in the remaining 189 minutes. giving you a running pace of about 7:43. Does that sound right?

Sounds like a very long track session to me!
11/02/2004 at 15:57
Donna, that sounds pretty spot on with the calculation. I understand in chatting to the guy that he reckons he was running about 7:30 mile pace for each 10 minute set. It was very hard to calculate though as he would cover more than a mile in each running section.

I just thought it was interesting and given the fact he ran 3:30 it seems worth a shot. I suffered badly after about 21 miles in my first marathon so you never know this may be a solution.

I agree that the 7:43 running pace is quite fast but I slow dreadfully in the later part of races. I assume part of the run/walk plan is to try and avoid slowing through fatigue for as long as possible.
I'll update on how the plan works after my next long run after this coming weekend.
11/02/2004 at 16:35
I have run half in 1h47 10k in 46mins. Should I be in this group or 4hours?

Just ran 10 miles last night in 1h30 and I ahve only run over 10 miles 3 times. No injures as yet, but just got a new pair of supernova cushion trainers yesterday so who knows what injuries they will cause!!
11/02/2004 at 16:36
Okay PPB - sounds like an interesting experiment, good luck.

My tactic to aviod this (slowing in the later stages) is the long runs and the marathon pace sessions on the treadmill hopefully building up to 18 miles. But then I really couldn't face the idea of a 3:30+ hour track session! Makes a couple of hours on the treadmill seem realtively painless!
11/02/2004 at 17:14
PPB - it does sound very interesting and I too remember the feeling of exhaustion in the last half of my one and only marathon.

The Hal Higdon website also talks about some sub-2:30 marathoners taking walking breaks - and for lesser mortals it suggests walking near water stations and has some numbers on how little the odd walk will actually cost - and some wise words on how much benefit a walker gets...
11/02/2004 at 19:30
Donna W, I think you picked up that I'm going to do my next long run at the track. I couldn't handle the boredom of that. I'm planning on repeating 3 laps of a 6 mile route that I regularly run but just adding in the the walk breaks.

BNTM - I think I read the same thing so it certainly can be done. I think such a routine may take some getting used to.

Rainboy, it's so hard to know what group to place yourself in. Using time predictors on runnersworld.com for your pace off 10K & Half M would be about 3:42 so why not stick with us on this thread.

I've just completed 9.4 miles in 1 Hour 12. Quite a fast pace for me.
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