A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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15/02/2004 at 17:51
Great time Puggers. I've never finished a 10K with anything in the tank so that's some going to take 2 minutes off your PB.

I completed a just over 18 mile Run/Walk yesterday in 2 Hours 37. I followed the plan of run 10 minutes then walk 2 throughout. I certainly felt more comfortable in the final few miles than I had when runningn the same distance non-stop the week before. My knee hurt again after 2 hours. This injury justs seems to plague me at the moment.

I doubt though if I'll follow the run/walk system for the race in London. Calculating my overall pace yesterday saw me cover the miles in an average of 8:45 per mile. Just not fast enough for my 3 Hours 45 target time. So I think I'll just use this system for some Long Training Runs but run constant in the race.
15/02/2004 at 17:59
Puggers, brilliant stuff. But be warned - we may be voting you out to the sub-3:30 thread (or quicker). ;-)

PPB, shame about the injury, but very interesting results.

Rather than run/walk, I did my usual jog/jog round the Stamford 30K today at 5:12/K (i.e. mara) pace. Looking quite good for the mara, though I really wouldn't have fancied another 12.2K! Hope everyone else had good long 'uns today.
15/02/2004 at 18:19
I just came back from the Meon Valley Plod. I did the 19 (or 19.5) miles in 3:39, so that gives me about 6 minutes to run the last 7 miles. But it isn't as bad as it sounds, there were really steep mountains there, we had to walk them. The last one at mile 15 took me 40 minutes to walk, this is a 20 minutes per mile average, so on the flat in London it should go better.
But now I have my first really long run in, time vise I stepped up by over 90 minutes, milevise by 3.
Next are the national XC championships where I don't want to be last, then Bramley 20 mile run which is the day after the north of the thames championships, so only long run in race gear.
15/02/2004 at 18:56
Sorry about your injury PPB. Still, at least you're managing to get the long oes in without really exacerbating it. Hopefully you'll shake it off soon. If not, you could always run/walk the FLM - you'd probably still manage a good time even if you couldn't hit your target. I'm going to try it on Sunday (3hrs). Just ordered "War and Peace" on audio book so that will keep me going for many long runs to come!!

Lars, I think the hill training is really good practice, and as you say, the times don't matter one bit - as long as you're on out on the road for a long time then you're getting the endurance benefits that you need.
16/02/2004 at 10:25
Lars - that will really have built up your strength and just think how easy the next long run is going to seem in comparison!

PPB - Are you not running all the way because of the injury then at the moment? My only worry would be that your body might be a bit shocked if you don't stop to walk if you've been doing it in training! Interesting that you felt less tired at the end but maybe that was due to a slower pace overall? What is your normal long run pace at the moment?

Puggers - that's a fantastic 10K time. Sounds like you'll easily achieve a sub 3:45. Have you got any half marathons planned? Perhaps you should be aiming for a quicker time?

Realised I was going to top 60 miles if I ran on Saturday too so had a day off in honour of Valentines day. After that glorious 2 day rest set off none too enthusiastically on Sunday. Getting quite lonesome on these 3 and half hour runs now. Really just wanted to make it round and get home. Great motivation and competed 24 miles in 3 hours and 27 minutes so quite pleased with that. To fast for training though but not too many long runs left what with Reading half, the 2 RW pacing runs and the blessed tapering in April!
16/02/2004 at 13:51
Wow - I'm impressed Donna - you're doing brilliantly I think. If I had notched up a 24 miler already then I would be much more confident than I am.

I have one 1/2m planned - am aiming for sub 1.37m (pb currently 1.39 and a bit). I know that according to these times I should be able to get nearer 3.30, but I just find the step up in distance quite daunting, and expect myself to blow up if I go off to fast. I thought I would set myself a (hopefully) achievable target, and then in the unlikely event of feeling strong with a few miles left I can always quicken up.
16/02/2004 at 15:38
Puggers - Can quite understand what you're saying about not wanting to go off too fast. At what point will you up the pace on the day if you're feeling strong? 18? 20?

You should cover a fair distance on Sunday if you're planning on going for 3 hours - maybe that'll help build your confidence.

16/02/2004 at 15:44
I'd just like to say that the title of this thread made me laugh.

16/02/2004 at 15:44
Donna, 60 Miles! Take it easy girl. Are you following your boyfriends training schedule? That's HUGE distance.

Following on from my earlier posts about using Run/Walk for my Long training runs. I don't really want to do this. But with only a limited amount of time before the race I'd rather cover the time and distance in some way in which I can cope with the pain. I'll still be running a half marathon next month and will try a couple of non-stop long runs before race day as well. Incidentally my normal Long Run training pace is about 8:15 per mile.

If the pain doesn't really subside much then I may just have to Run/Walk the entire race for London. I think I'd still break 4 Hours, which wouldn't be too disastrous, but as I started this thread I feel an obligation to atleast try and break 3:45 (chip time not clock time) for the race.

Have a good running week folks.


16/02/2004 at 15:52
Regarding mileage, I'm using a quality rather than quantity approach - long runs and speedwork, pretty much cutting out the mid-range steady stuff that I used in the autumn to bulk up my mileage. Speedwork makes you faster at ALL speeds, and long stuff is obviously needed to get you in shape to make it to the finish, but isn't that about all you need? Anyway, it's working beautifully well for me, and I haven't yet hit 35 miles in a week this time (thus keeping me away from the dreaded physio!).

Any views?
16/02/2004 at 17:31
Swerve - I know what each of my runs are for, even if they are just recovery runs, so I'm targeting different paces (or time on my feet for Sundays). I know my mileage is high but I'm also keeping close tabs on how my body feels day to day. I think it's a case of knowing what works for you, although to be fair there's a lot of guess work involved for me - but I usually do best with practise.

Sounds like you're in a fortunate position of lower mileage paying dividends.

PPB - sounds like a sensible approach. How's things with the knee? What are you doing to treat it?

I'm intending to taper, so my approach is train as hard as I can wihtout injury and without compromising my speed workouts too much whilst there's time to build strength.
16/02/2004 at 17:46
Donna, I will probably wait until at least 20 miles - even though 6 doesn't sound like much in the context of a marathon, it can be a hell of a long way if you're knackered, so I don't want to blow all the good work by quickening to early. Hee hee listen to us - I'll be happy to get round in under 4hrs. 3.45 or better would be a real bonus.

Swerve, you're a man with the same plan as me. I run 3 times a week - long, tempo and speed, and it works great for me. I just can't muster up the motivation to run more than this, and my body seems not to like it either. But Donna, as you say, it's a personal thing, and if you're coping with the mileage you're doing then good for you.
16/02/2004 at 19:02
We all agree, training and distances are a very personal thing. I don't think anyone was knocking Donna for running 60 miles. I'm training for triathlon as well as competing at Table Tennis, as a result my run training has to be restricted to at most 4 or 5 days a week.

For my knee injury I'm just taking Ibruprofen and using Deep Heat while wearing a stretch bandage. It's quite basic medicine but I do find it helps. I managed 5 completely pain free miles today in 38 minutes. The pain only ever really appears when increase the time.
17/02/2004 at 10:15
That's okay, I didn't think anyone was knocking me. I do worry about getting the balance right myself.

PPB - sounds like you have a very full schedule. Are you training for the London triathlon this Summer?

Presumably there is some underlying problem with your knee - have you investigated what might be the cause? I had some problems with my knee when I started increasing the mileage last year. Included some quad strengthening exercises in my yoga practice to help support the knees.

Has anyone been practising with lucozade on their runs yet? Stopped just before 3 hours the Sunday before last to buy some just to see how my stomach would react but could only get the purple one in a bottle. My local Sainsbury's seems to be permanently out of stock!
17/02/2004 at 10:54
Tried the Lucozade approach last year, didn't work. I must have drunk 3 or 4 pints of it during the marathon (had a bad day), the worst is that the stuff is sticking on your shoes and every L. station will be terrible to run throug because the road is like glue. They should ban it, but GSK is a sponsor so they can't.

I will stick to my only water and gel approach, worked fine for me in Berlin. I might even carry my own bottle around which is easier than cups and always available, and the belt has a pocket for gels.
17/02/2004 at 11:33
I actually started a "I hate Lucozade" thread a while back, so my thoughts on it are quite clear. I think I'll have to run London with my water bottle containing probably Powerade or something more palatable than Lucozade. It's Lucozade Sport that they give out in the race so if you're going to train with it make sure you get the right one.

I had Physio and a Doctor look at my knee when I had problems last year. The only real solution and rehabilitation they suggested was rest. Not what a runner wants to hear. I'm just going to train to complete London & Edinburgh marathons. Then for the rest of the year it will all be Triathlon training. As the run in an Olympic Distance Triathlon is only 10K then I'll be cutting out the very long distances that should help knee rehabilitation.

I'm training for Triathlons in Scotland as they're more local. The London Tri would have been too expensive to get myself and my Bike to the race. I may, though, take part in the London Tri or UK Half Ironman next year.

Are you running today folks? It'll be 10 Miles for me today in around 1 Hr 20.
17/02/2004 at 11:42
PPB - Sounds like maybe a second opinion could be in order for your knee - did they say what the cause was?

Sorry I forgot you were based in Aberdeen(?) I can well imagine that it could cost a fair bit to transport a bike.

I don't usually use sports drinks (a bit of Ribena when I get back is nice though). Don't really like the idea of carrying stuff around. Use a pint RunAid bottle on my long runs but I've never really got used to it. Where do you store gels? Lucozade Sport orange in pouches isn't it (that they give out for free on the day)? Will continue searching.

Can imagine that the road does get glue like. Was bad enough avoiding sponges at Watford half!

Yep, planning to go the track tonight so I'm left guessing what the session will be until 7. Usually a 10k targeted session on a Tuesday though.
17/02/2004 at 12:09
Donna, last year I bought the pouches from Safeway, they had a 3 pouches box. But I changed to powder which was cheaper and I could use a big bottle instead of 3 pouches for a run.

Also track today, but on Tuesdays we are at Paddington. Will be tough after the Plod on Sunday.
17/02/2004 at 12:32
Yes Lars, similarly wondering how my legs will respond to speed. Recovery run yesterday was better than some have been though. Did an easy 5 miles and my legs did feel better by the end. Do you notice that your warm up acts as a recovery as you're sticking to quality sessions with no recovery runs?

Do you train with Serpies?
17/02/2004 at 12:33
Yes, I am a Serpentine member.
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