A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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17/02/2004 at 13:31
Hi PPB, I've only just spotted this thread. Glad somone started a Sub 3:45. I was going to myself but didn't think one would really take off. My sub 3:30 target is probz a step tooooo far at the mo, so I'll be Lurking on here for a whlie I think. I kno the 3:45 pace quite well as the FLM 02 saw me finish in 3:39 and I stayed wid d 3:45 pacer until mile 19 last year until my foot said NO MORE and I did a 3:56.

Keep this thread alive I beg of thee. A lurkin I shall be.

Woony
17/02/2004 at 14:30
Hi Woony you're more than welcome so lurk on!

Re energy drink, I tried lucozade sport once (ready-made bottle form) and found it really sickly. I then discovered Powerbar lemon flavour powder which is ok, but lately I find this turns on me after a while.

I've never tried a gel, but on my last long run I took a High 5 (I think) energy bar with me and had it after about 1hr 45 mins, and I found it tasty and easy to eat. Only problem is where to carry it - I can't decie whether to wear a bottle belt for the race, and even if I do, not sure if the pocket is big enought to carry 2 energy bars. Oh dear...all these decisions!

Just came back from lunchtime speedwork:

8 min warmup, then fast bursts of 1, 2, 4, 2, 1 mins with 1 min jog in between each, then repeat sequence before 8min cool down. Made an interesting session and not too hard on the legs after my race on Sunday.


18/02/2004 at 10:46
Good morning all - how were your runs yesterday?

We did an interesting session at the track! 100 metres, jog 100 metres, then 200, jog 100, 300, jog 100, 400, jog 100, .... all the way up to 1200 metres. It was nice to do that fast stuff at the beginning (missed that recently with the longer track work). Was a bit of a killer but kept your mind busy keeping track of which distance you were on and how much more of it you had to go!

Puggers - where do you do your speedwork? Track or treadmill?

Lars - how was your session at Paddington? Do you train at Battersea Park on Thursday nights?

PPB - How was your 10 miles? Knee okay?
18/02/2004 at 10:47
Oh and welcome Woony. There's no need to lurk, don't be shy, tell us how your training's going.
18/02/2004 at 12:22
Hmmmm.....

Think I may be off to the sub4 thread again. Did my Yassos this morning and only got 2 of the 10 under 3:45. All were under 4:00.

Now this might be running before breakfast or the effects of three days skiing in my legs but I'm not sure 3:45 is realistic.

I'm also thinking that I'd rather do a safe sub4 than risk 3:45, blow up and go outside 4. I really, really want this to be my last mara and a sub4's the only goal I've got left from when I started running.

Bye for now,
Higs

p.s. obviously if I have one good day's training, I'll get all optimistic and be straight back!
18/02/2004 at 12:25
Donna, we did a pyramide. 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 1200, 800, 400, supposed to be in 5k pace and 1 minute rest. I could hold my pace but had to extend the rest intervals. Averaged just under 6:40 pace.
Will not be at Battersea, mainly because I only do 1 track session a week and I like our Tuesdays more, additionally we have the national XC on Saturday so I shouldn't be tired then.
18/02/2004 at 13:56
Higs, I wouldn't worry unduly about one bad session - I reckon the skiing would explain a lot. Give it another go sometime soon when you're feeling quite strong and then see how you go. And remember you've still got about 8 weeks left so plenty of time to get to your target. Don't give up on 3.45 (not just yet anyway!).

Donna, I do speedwork on a flat footpath by the river. It's not possible to measure distance, so I base it on time intervals rather than distance. I'm not in a club and don't have the will to go to a track.
18/02/2004 at 14:07
Dull ache! That's how my knee felt at the end of last nights session. That is about normal for me. If I'd kept going eventually the ache would be a sharp pain that would just increase in intensity. Sort of annoying but I'm learning to struggle through. A good time for me though, 9.4 Miles in just over 1 Hour 9 minutes. Today is a rest day from running, though I'll still do a swim session and some home exercises later.

Sorry about that Higs. I wouldn't read too much into Yasso's but you may as well set yourself a target that you think you can make and would be happy with. I started this thread as I realised I was kidding myself to think I'd make 3:30.

Hi Woony and anyone else lurking. Don't be afraid to say Hello from time to time. We're all in this together <group hug>.

PPB.
18/02/2004 at 14:30
PPB - Sounds like a good run. I hope you can sort your knee out, sharp pain doesn't sound too much fun.

Higs - I'd second what PPB says, my times are never as good in the morning and if you've been skiing too...! Maybe try them again next week and see what results you get. Can fully understand why you don't wan to risk blowing up though.

Lars - good luck in the Nationals, hope the rain holds off for the next few days. 6:40 is a pretty speedy pace. Where do you get that time from? Is that a PB for 5K, using an equivalent time calcualtor or just what you know you can run it at?

So what has everyone got planned for tonight? Is it a rest night for most of you? I'll be doing about 7 miles at a steady pace this evening after teaching a yoga class.

18/02/2004 at 14:40
This is the target 5k pace for a 21 minutes 5k.

Today easy 16 miles, very easy! Than rest until Saturday.
18/02/2004 at 15:19
Donna, PPB, Dont worry I've never been to good at lurkin, just always have to say something.

Higs, I know how you're feeling. I know that a Sub 3:30 is in me. But the rate my training is going its really gona hurt me. So Im looking at doing a Sub 3:45 that I can enjoy rather than Sub 3:30 thats gona kill me. However Im gona keep up the training that I had planned for the 3:30 so This should make the 3:45 even better.

Anyone here plan to stick with the RW Pacers for All/part of the course?

Woony
18/02/2004 at 15:23
Lars... Easy?? Don't kid yourself mate, solid 8's all the way!!!
18/02/2004 at 15:59
Lars - never raced a 5k (10k is my shortest) so can only comment that 21 minutes sounds pretty fast. Mc Millan would make that a definite sub 3:30 in equivalent performance for a marathon.
Makes me wonder if I need to be running my intervals a little faster (although not sure my legs would be too co-operative!)

Hope the 16 miles goes well - how long will that take?!

Woony - Current plan is to stay with the RW pacers all the way unless I sonehow have loads of energy left at about mile 18 - 20.

Looking forward to the pacing events at Richmond and Sutton Park to see how I fare keeping that pace.
18/02/2004 at 21:23
Woony, I hope to stick with the pacers all the way, but like Donna I may speed up at the end if I have any energy.

To change the subject, what's everybody's view on warming up for the race? I usually run easily for the first 10mins of my training runs, then quicken to whatever pace I need to do. With this marathon I'm inclined to just start cold - I did it in my 10k on Sunday and worked fine. I always used to warm up a bit before races, but then after hanging around at the start I feel I lose all the benedit anyway.
18/02/2004 at 21:39
Yep, I agree Puggers. A lot of the marathon is about managing your energy stores. No point in depleting them. You'll be running pretty easily for a long way, so no need to get the heart rate up and not much risk of pulling something at that speed. And I'm sure there's something in the theory of taking the first mile or two extra-slow to get the fat-burning mechanism fired up and save that lovely glycogen.

Mind you, I'd definitely get my heart ticking over before a 10K.
19/02/2004 at 10:02
I was going to warm up a bit, something very slow, easy and short, followed by a bit of stretching. I know I'll probably get cold again so maybe it's just the confidence of thinking I won't get any odd twinges or stifness in the first few miles (especially given I'll have rested for a couple of days before probably).

Surely a slow jog can't use up much more glycogen than walking about a bit - which you're bound to do anyway?

if you're sticking with the pacers my understanding is that they do the whole marathon at the same pace so granted it will feel fairly easy but it will be your marathon pace from the start line.

What training planned for today?

Trying to decide between a marathon pace and a half marathon pace session. Reading half is a week Sunday so it might be good to practise that pace and as this will be on the treadmill and my next step up for marathon pace would have to be to 14 miles think I might favour the half session. Maybe 8 or 9 miles?
19/02/2004 at 11:11
I'm heading to the track today. I'm going try and do some Yasso 800's with a target pace for each set of 800 in 3:30-3:40 with a 3 minute (1 lap) jog recovery in between each set. I hope to do 10 sets. It's ages since I've done this but it's a good workout. This could be my last run for a few days as I'm away for the weekend so I'll try and make it count.

I can't decide whether to follow the RW pacers or not in London. I know it should be even paced running but I generally prefer doing my own thing and see where it takes me. I had planned on running the first Half in London in 1 Hour 50 and then try and come back inside 1 Hour 55 to make the target time.

I don't see an awful lot of point in warming up much before the start of a marathon. We're running at a steady pace for a long time so the start pace would probably be a normal warm up for many of our runs anyway. I'll just stretch a little before the start.
19/02/2004 at 11:11
Hi all

Just picked up on this thread today. It sounds like you're all going through the same pain and suffering as me.

This will be my first marathon so not too sure what to expect. I'm aiming for 3:35 - 3:40. I have run several 1/2m and 10k with pb of 1:31:11 for and 40:43.

Currently running about 70 miles per week and can feel the benefit of it. Longest run yet of 22.5m in 3hr 4min. (about 8min 11sec per mile). This hurts so I don't belive I could do much better than this on the day, but being a marathon virgin what do I know.

I seem to go through phases of feeling really stong some days and others feeling like I'd strugle to run to the end of my road. This is regardless of what I have done on the previous few days. Does anyone else suffer from this?
19/02/2004 at 11:42
Hi Fruit Cake and welcome. Today I'm struggling to keep my eyes open! I can always run, it just seems to be the pace that varies. The thing that seems to have gone is the enjoyment. Feel good after a good session but a lot my runs I just want to get over and done with.

70 miles a week is impressive - how does that break down over the week into training sessions? You're much faster than me, great time for your long run.
19/02/2004 at 12:32
Hi Donna W and thanks. It's not that the enjoyment isn't there (if I stoped enjoying it then I don't think I'd be doing it) it's just some days you feel like you've taken two steps backwards instead of one forward.

Last week broke down as follows:

Mon Rest
Tue 9 miles interval training (1 hr)
Wed 11.5 miles hills (1 hr 24)
Thu 8.3 Miles flat (1 hr)
Fri 12.5 Miles hills (1hr 37)
Sat 8 miles (1hr)
Sun 22.5 Miles 3 hr 04

Reading previous posts I think I must be thick. What is a Yassos? Not being part of a club I don't hear terms like this.
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