A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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19/02/2004 at 13:00
I think maybe when you're running high mielage your body just goes through natural cycles of peaks and troughs. Sometimes I finish my long run on a Sunday and think no way will I reach my target time on the day and others are great. Can't spot a pattern.

How do your alternate your hard and easy runs? Are you cutting back the mileage for every 4th week?

Yasso 800s are 10 800s run in the time you want to run the marathon in minutes instead of hours. So for you, 3 minutes 35 to 3 minutes 40 for each 800. The rest you take inbetween is the controversial part. I think it's supposed to be as long as you take to run each 800 but that's along time and you may well freeze to death in this weather hanging about that long. Maybe jog 100 metres instead or take 90 seconds?

The idea is that if you can do 10 then you stand a good chance of hitting that target time in the marathon. I'm not sure how good an indication it is. It seems a little easy to me realtive to other interval sessions.
19/02/2004 at 14:08
Yasso's are a lot easier than running a marathon. I haven't gone to the track yet, due to work, but I'm set to escape in about an hour. I'll thrill you with the times later on!

My body couldn't handle 70 miles a week. I have to stick with 30-40 and with a very occasional peak of 45.
19/02/2004 at 14:13
But PPB if you take into account all the other stuff you do too...

19/02/2004 at 14:47
Hi Fruit cake, and welcome to the gang. Your 1/2m time of 1.31 is very impressive indeed (compared to my 1.39 anyway). On that basis you should be able to kick our collective a***s in a marathon - but I understand that for a first marathon (like many of us here), you don't want to blow it by going too fast.

19/02/2004 at 16:35
Well I did my Yasso's at a deserted track this afternoon. I completed the first seven 800m sets just inside 3 minutes 15 then finished with the last three in 3:08, 3:08 & 2:57. I had a 2 1/2 minute (1 lap) recovery jog after each 800m.

I was blowing hard all the way but I was pleased with the performance. The last time I did Yasso's, I had toiled to keep them all inside 3 minutes 35.

19/02/2004 at 20:58
Puggers, I defo wouldnt be too bothered about a warm up for the FLM. If you have a certain area you Know gives you jip then defo work on it a while. I only do a few gentle (GENTLE) stretchs B4 the FLM. As Donna said it gona be a nice steady pace all the way around ( the RW Pacers are top).However a Sub 3:45 is usually PEN 4 so there will be a bit of slower pace, walking maybe, bunching at the start, so you're not exactly going straight in to 8 min miles.

Ref the RW Pacers, I hope to stay with the Sub 3:45 until about mile 22 at which IF Im fit enough I'll pick up the Pace a little. The Pacers do still like you to get UNDER THE CLOCK on time, so be prepared to run a little quicker than the 8min mile. I stayed with the Pacer to Mile 19 last year (then broke away from them backwards in the form of a WALK). Up to this point it was a steady 3:39/3:40 Pace.

My overall aim is a PB, thus anything quicker than 3:39,46. 3:39,45 Would be GREAT, anything else is a BONUS.

Keep up d ARD work people

19/02/2004 at 22:41
Nice one PPB - sounds like a good session to go away for the weekend on!

Woony, interesting what you say about the pacers. I was thinking about that - if there are a couple of 10 minute miles at the start then this will necessitate quicker miles later on, and if they try to beat the clock time too.........perhaps I'll defect to the sub 5hr thread!!

20/02/2004 at 08:22
Always being one to try new things I tried the Yasso's last night. Kept a constant pace and did them all in around 3 mins (some slightly over some under). Like you PPB I had 2 1/2 recoveries. Felt OK afterwards. Confidence is growing now. doing 1/2m this afternoon then rest day tomorrow for personal reasons before the big push on Sunday. 23m aarggghhhhh....
20/02/2004 at 10:43
Good going Fruit Cake. I am embarrassed to say that I have never been to a track in my life. I'm going to have to give it a go now to see how I fare with Yassos. Next week I think. I need to save my energy for my first 3hr run on Sunday.
ip(FeS2)    pirate
20/02/2004 at 10:50
I believe the pacers changing what they run to this year.

It always used to be clock time, but it will be chip time this year.
20/02/2004 at 12:20
The idea of Yasso's is that if you run 4 mins per 800, then your recovery is a 4 min jog, not any less. This then equates to approx 80 mins of running and it is this time on your feet which is suppose to improve your race performance. If your recoveries are too short, then the session will be over to quick and you will not benefit from the session.
20/02/2004 at 14:28
Hi I'm pete, this is my 4th london marathon on the trot. the first was a rather sad 4hr 22min mainly due to an alarming lack of training. the next two have both been 3hr 57 mins, each time training was going well until the last 6 weeks or so when it got derailed a bit due to work commitments. This year however I'm determined to go for 3 hr 45min (despite falling a bit behind with a weeks skiing recently) My long run is on a saturday , tomorrow I'm aiming for 20 miles plus, how is your training going ?
20/02/2004 at 19:55
Puggers, dont worry about d Pacers the're Great. Its not much faster, Im just preparing people. However if what I p said is true it should be even better.

22/02/2004 at 20:29
KNACKERED!! That was me after making it around a 3hr run today, including climbing a modest mountain. I felt good until about 2.30, but the last 30 mins were awful - legs felt like lead and it hurt me to stand, let alone walk, let alone run!

I am hoping that it was the steep climbs which finished me off, and that if I try the same time on the flat that it will feel easier.

Bye for now - I'm off to limp the 10 metres into my lounge!
22/02/2004 at 22:07
It does get easier, Puggers. But it still hurts lots!

My long one yesterday was significantly easier than one I did on roughly the same route three weeks ago. Seven whole b.p.m. slower HRav too, despite taking it a smidge quicker (and 2M further), so the speedwork's definitely having an effect (well, 'definitely' if I can exclude the possibility that I was a bit 'off' last time). 22M in all, in 3:14, and had, oooh, a good 4.2 miles left in my legs at the end.

And I can even walk kind-of OK today!
(running - well, that's a different story...).

How did everyone else's long ones go?
23/02/2004 at 08:11
Hi swerve, sounds like you're on track for a good'un. Did 19.1 miles in 2.56 on saturday (sunday is shopping day with missus !!) and managed to walk round shops next day without any problem. Does shopping count as an easy day training ?, I must have walked miles. It certainly seemed to get rid of the aches and pains, sat at my desk this moring ready for another run.

I think i need to get a bit faster for a 3.45, what speedwork do you do? and how often ? I tend to be a bit lazy at running fast so i think i need to get some sessions in in the next few weeks


23/02/2004 at 08:39
Good going all. I did my ling run Sunday morning. 3 hrs of hell! Running into icy cold strong winds up and down every hill I could find. I don't know how far it was I need to look on Map24 to confirm. Need a day off today to recover. But looking on the bright side, like you Swerve I can just about walk today althouh my right knee and left nipple are a bit sore. More vaseline on the nipple next time!
23/02/2004 at 10:27
Peter - Aside from my long run, I do a good hard speed sesh with my club on a Tuesday and a good hard speed sesh on my own on the treadmill on Thursdays, mostly focusing on 2 min & 1 min fast intervals (and lots of them, for the sake of endurance). My fourth session might involve some tready work or just a five-mile leg stretcher outside, but it's not a hard one. I should emphasise that I don't have much of a clue about how to train properly, but including the Thursday session (and having a good long spell without injury) has led to much quicker improvement than just the club session alone. And concentrating on speed means fewer miles - since mid-December, my weeks have been 18.0 miles, 21.8, 27.7, 30.0, 30.7, 9.7, 34.7, 32.4, 34.7 and 37.1. I think this has helped me stay uninjured (yes, I AM touching wood).

So, dunno, it's what works for each individual, I suppose, but that seems to work for me. Of course, take it with a pinch of salt until I actually register a marathon time!

Fruit Cake - are the knee and nipple injuries linked? ;-) Teeny shreds of microporous tape - works a treat! Boots do a sellotape-style dispenser.
23/02/2004 at 10:42
Well done everybody.

Thanks for the encouragement Swerve. You guys seem to be doing well with your long runs. My strength currently lies in 10k - 1/2m, and I know I need to persevere with the long ones. Must say I still feel a bit cr*ppy today, and anoyingly I have the mother of a blister (time to change socks I think). This may sound insignificant, but I'm worried it may hamper my training this week because it's damn painful. Any good tips anybody?

And yes, the micropore tape solved my nipple problem completely. I don't use tiny shreds though - a 1-2 inch piece slapped right over each nipple does the trick beautifully. Taking it off is interesting though - reminds me of the days of getting chewing gum stuck in one's hair as a child!!
23/02/2004 at 11:15
That's why I only use a tiny bit. Makes my eyes water just thinking about it!

Blisters? I suppose my tip is to have three pairs of shoes on the go. Each will cause a slightly different blister pattern, allowing old wounds to harden up. Oh, and I do my long runs in a very cushioned pair of Hilly socks (just cheapo generic white socks otherwise).
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