A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

Sub 3:45 Group

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24/02/2004 at 21:38
B*gger. Snow and "essential" table tennis coaching and training meant I couldn't get out for my planned run tonight. So I'll have to get out for 10 miles tomorrow regardless of the weather conditions. The cycle leg of the triathlon could be somewhat comical if the snow keeps up until the weekend.

I agree about the 3 Hour training runs. These are essential as I nkow it was a lack of long runs that let me down a little toward the end of my first marathon.

I was lucky enough to get a club place for FLM. I tried in the ballot the last two years but have been rejected both times.
24/02/2004 at 22:43
Got in via the ballot - 2nd time of asking.

I was in 2 minds today as to whether to run or not since my blister was quite bad. But I put on my other shoes, gritted my teeth and went for a relatively easy session of 200m intervals. Blister wasn't too bad which was a relief. And I ordered some decent socks (Thorlo) today so look forward to giving them a go.

On the bright side, considering how utterly seized up my joints were after Sunday's 3hr run, I have made quite a quick recovery - legs felt quite strong surprisingly.
24/02/2004 at 22:46
What races has everybody got left before the big one? I have:

Terminator 10 in Wiltshire
Rhyader "Round the lakes" 20
Lydney 1/2m (target sub 1.38...hmmmmm!)
25/02/2004 at 09:15
Hi Fruit Cake

Have to admit I've got a bit of a cheat on the sponsership, I'm a financial adviser so I get a lot of the money from different lenders or life offices etc. However one event that always raises around £300 is I organise Row a Marathon in the middle of Ilkley with members of my gym. basically we take one of the rowing machines onto the high street and a team of us row 26.2 miles and walk up and down with bucketts collecting money. It's a good cross taining workout as well

Adam, I have to agree with swerve, the 20+ mile runs are essential. In my first FLM the last 8 miles were v.v tough, i was still running but was overtaken by a walking Mr Man !!cos I had only done one 18 mile long run. next year I did 6 20+ mile runs and found I could walk after the FLM without limping and did under 4.00 my target without any problem. I ran it with the young (26) fit manager of my locaal gym who always beat me comfortably over 10K and the one 1/2 m we run. However he only did one 16 mile training run thinking his natural fitness would see him through . On the day I had to hold him back for the first 10 miles and then he blew up at 18 miles and ended up doing 4.18 in a very painfull jog, walk, stretch, jog, walk, stretch. So get some 20+ runs in, Donna should sail through on the day as long as she remembers to taper before hand.

Puggers, only race i've got is the wakefild 10K on the 4th april, won't be expecting a fast one, I tend to be a plodder, not very fast but I keep going at the same pace for a long time. Best 1/2 is only 1.43 and best 10K is 46.53 so to get 3.45 FLM have got to do loads of 20+ runs so I can keep going on the day. Will be trting some more fast sessions though, hasve you got any good ones ?

25/02/2004 at 09:52
thanks guys, all usefull tips. One other thing...if i'm not constantly topped up with water and an energy substance the wheels come off pretty quickly. Any thing over about 8 miles i need to take water with me. What's the best way to manage your fuel over 20 miles ?, do you take 2 bottles and disgard along with those gels or what?. I found during the brighton half that 2/3 water station over the distance is no good for me, i need to drink little and often
25/02/2004 at 10:50
Many folk, myself included, don't like Lucozade. I run with a waist water bottle carrier containing Powerade or something similar that I find palatable for my Long Runs. If you train with the bottle then you get used to the weight and motion of running with it.

If a race is giving out water in bottles then I'll normally take some on early and often. The just discard as I go along. Most smaller races have a dump point for the bottles so that you don't litter the countryside. I don't suppose this is such a problem in London.

As for races, I have 2 sprint distance triathlons and one Half Marathon (Inverness) between now and London. I'm aiming to beat my PB of 1 Hour 44 in the Half Marathon. I'd be happy with 1:42.

Well it's still snowing outside but I'm a man of my word so I'm set to venture out for 10 slippy miles this lunchtime.

25/02/2004 at 12:28
Hello, losing track of who each person is here, when they train, how they've got a place, etc. Need a little profile of each person to keep up!

I've only one reace planned Reading half a week on Sunday. I'm also do the RW pacing run in Richmond Park on Sunday and a fortnight after that in Sutton Park, Birmingham.

I'm running for ChildLine with a GB place. Have raised just after £1000 but have a quiz night next THursday when I hope to raise around another £400 and I still have some promises of sponsorship not included.

I'm considering running with my pint runaid on the day (will certainly use this on the pacing runs). Might see if I get allocated a URWFRC supporter whether they can keep hold of another full pint and exchange at 18 miles for my empty one.

Session last night was a gruelling 3k, 1500 twice with 100 m jog recovery (can you recover in that time?!) and then a 1k on the end. Quite concerned that the running of that total 10k distance took me just over 45 mins despite the little rests. Where or where has my speed gone and will it ever return?

Not running today in an effort to keep at around 30 miles this week.
25/02/2004 at 12:41
To answer the various questions....

How did I get into FLM? I didn't - rejected in the ballot (first ever entry) AND in my club draw. I'm doing Bungay two weeks earlier, but tagging along with you lot (if that's OK!).

Races? One every weekend!
Ostend to Bruges 10 mile (club trip, racing hard if hangover pemits)
Wymondham 20 (hard-ish, probably marathon pace)
Ashby 20 (dead slow)
Broadland 15 (dead slow)
Joe Cox 10, Stowmarket (not sure)
Bungay Black Dog Marathon (er, marathon pace!)

I like racing. :-)
25/02/2004 at 13:03
I have my last XC on Saturday. North of the Thames champs. On Sunday I will run the Bramley 20, but just as a long run. I will also run the Milton Keynes half marathon (where I try to beat 1:45) end of March. And the last Friday 5k in March, this month I will probably help there. And there will be two club handicap races until the marathon as well.

Donna, 45 isn't a bad time, I never went so fast for 10 k. I might do some Thursday sessions at Battersea with Serpentine soon, haven't decided so far. Last Saturday on our health weekend we had your coach giving a talk about real training and what to do to become faster. Seems to be hard work to do his sessions. Are you running while carrying your running buddy? Or jumping up a hill? Or hopping 25 metres each other day?
25/02/2004 at 15:12
did 3 x 1500 with 500 recovery yesterday and just done a 5 mile recovery run round ilkley park. lovely weather ,cold but no wind and v sunny ,perfect for running. Going to do some more speed running tomorrow, no running track nearby so going to use the football pitches in the park, sprint the length, jog across width and try and do 10-15 laps, not very scientific but makes me sweat!

For drink and gels in the flm i carry two bottles of isotonic drink, 1 in my hand and 1 in my water belt and half a dozen SIS energy gels which I have every 3-4 miles. I tend to find after 18-20 miles my stomach will only accept water so for the last 6-8 miles i simply use the water stations

Donna i agree with Lars, 45 for a 10k is better than anything I have done and with your mileage you should have no probs. As a bit of a profile, I'm 47 2 days after the FLM, 5ft 6ins and a bit heavy at 12st 4lb but hope to lose a bit over the next 8 wks. I'm not very fast but tend tom plod at a constant speed for a long while. The last couple of years I've peaked too early around Jan so have never got to the 3.45 target. I definately feel motivated by this thread so keep it going , let me know what training you're doing and how it's going, it makes me want to do more. This will be the first week I've done 2 speed sessions thanks to this thread !!

25/02/2004 at 15:29
my speed sessions tend to be on a treadmill that i've bought - this is partly due to family commitments (looking after sprogs), partly due to being able to get accurate time/distance training and partly to give me a legs some recovery as all i do is road/pavement running. Is the treadmill equally good for speed training purposes ? -As it's in doors i find it harder cos of heating, no wind etc.
25/02/2004 at 15:51
Thank you for all your encouraging words. I assure that breeze and sail are not words I'd ever associate with running 26.2 miles!

Lars - how did you get on in the Nationals? I heard Frank was talking somewhere. I think he started some race recently too as he appeared at the track last Tuesday with a very noisy horn instead of the usual whistle. Saying he's my coach woud be stretching things a bit though. He sets the session and then I get the odd, "Keep going comrade," or "Lower your arms a bit". Before my first 10k he told me to take it easy for the first 10 minutes and then start overtaking people. I'm not sure if that qualifies as coaching! His sessions are hard but I think he's referring to his infamous Saturday sessions. I've banned myself from going to them until post marathon. They're just too much the day before a long run. Never jumped up a hill that I can recall but yes piggy backs on the flat for an age and up hills and that hopping hurts!

Adam, the speed work I've done on a treadmill has always been something like 4 or 5 minutes flat out with 1 minute recoveries in between. Anything shorter and I just seem to spend time waiting for the speed to increase or decrease.

As far as I understand the speedwork sessions should be either for increasing your lactate tolerance or for VO2 Max. This is quite useful reading
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=160

How was your snowy run PPB?
25/02/2004 at 17:56

I completed my 9.4 Miler today in 1 Hour 19 Minutes. This was 10 Minutes slower than last week for the same course but all will become clear as to why. To say the weather was variable would be a massive understatement. We've had about 4-6 inches of snow overnight in Aberdeen so the run was always going to be slippy.

After a couple of miles I was on to fresh untrodden snow that I always find enjoyable to run on. The wind began to pick up and blow snow into my face for a mile then there is a steep hill for a bit that was just a slog today. Towards the top of the hill the snow started falling again, which combined with the wind in my face actually made it painful to run in. I pulled my wooly hat down over my eyes as it hurt that much. God knows what car drivers were thinking as I was running along with my wooly hat almost completely covering my face. Thankfully things eased up once I came down from the top of the hill and the last few miles are predominantly flat to downhill.

But I'm glad I got in the miles today. I would think 10 miles on snow, slush and and ice is at least 11 miles on an even surface. My pace works out at 8:23 per mile which given the conditions isn't bad at all.

Donna - 45 Minutes isn't bad at all for speed training 10K. My PB is 43:59 and I would think that such a time is plenty fast enough for our target marathon pace.

One last thing. What speed is flat out for speed work on a treadmill. I don't run on them very often but I would think with recoveries of 1 Minute every 4 minutes (run 4 - jog 1) I could run between 9 and 10 mph and keep this up for half an hour or so.
26/02/2004 at 02:22
Hello everyone from the midnight shift

Having a good training week, did 18 miles on Sun (and felt shattered), 4mile recovery Monday, X 10 Yasso's at 3.30 Tues and some hill week tonight,was frozen stiff and then did the "cold bath treatment" I feel the goal is fast approaching which has given me extra focus so to speak

I've gone race mad in March starting with Richmond training day with my charity (NSPCC) but after the RW Event. Then up for Reading and Hasting Halfs, the Richmond breakfast run and a local 10K at Hastingwood in Essex (rude not to), once that lots out of the way, before you know it will be the 18th April, hooray
26/02/2004 at 07:39
Morning all. Another cold slog last night. Managed 11 miles in 89 mins, 6 minutes slower than last week. I put it all down to the weather. Easy night tonight (8 slow miles) then this weeks long run will be tomorrow afternoon 'cos I'm off skiing for a week after that. Will try and get 3-4 speed sessions in whilst away as I don't want to loose any of my fitness. it was -11 at the ski resort this morning (-19 with wind chill). It will make it seem tropical here!

Doing Trimpell 20 on 21 March, thats the only race I've got planned.
26/02/2004 at 09:06
Hi

did a speedy 10k (for me) last night on the treadmill....broke my 10k best for the second time in 3 weeks...must be something OK since only do one fast run a week so I'm not exactly training for it.

Aiming for 52 miles this week with a 23 miler on Saturday morning (longest so far - 2 weeks ago 21 miles)

Had an easy week last week - only 36 with a 15 miler long run

only doing one race before FLM - Ashby on the 14th March
26/02/2004 at 10:23
Woony - You're famous! On the front page. Well done, I think races with 2 mile hills are more than I can manage.

PPB - well done for sticking with it. Those runs were you can just feel your face freeze over are awful. Running in hail, sleet or really driving rain or snow is always painful.

I've only done flat out on a treadmill in kph - usually go for 8 kph for slow jog recovery to around 14.8 kph for 5 minutes (but haven't done that for a while and doubt I could keep that pace at the moment).

Freddo, did the cold bath things after my run on Sunday - thought I'd get hypothermia. Downed my cup of tea in about 60 seconds and sat there shivering violently until I could bear no more and made a very ungraceful exit from the bath as fast as I could manage with stiff frozen legs.
26/02/2004 at 16:12
hi all

managed to do my second fast session of the week. Fast down one length of the park, jog across the bottom , fast up the other side, then jog across the top. The fast bit takes as long as the jog around 3.30 per lap in total. Would estimte the distance at around 750-800 metres. did 6 laps with mate (aim for 8 then 10 etc) ground was just starting to defrost, bit slippy but a lovely sunny day.

Going for a 20+ on saturday hope it's not snowing. Have been doing the cold water bit after my long runs for a while. Bit of a coward as I have a quick warm shower to get rid of mud and sweat then I put shower on legs and keep turning it down until just freezing cold and normally last a couple of minutes before I've had enough. Does work though, havn't had any aching legs since i started doing it.

What sort of mileage are you all doing ? should break 40+ this week, aiming to peak at 50-60 in 2-3 weeks time.this time trying to do two speed/hill/fartlek sessions every week which has always been my weak spot, inherent laziness I'm afraid
26/02/2004 at 17:13
afternoon all!

Had a very quiet training week so far - I felt so tired after my long run last SUnday that I did only a fairly mild speed session on Tuesday - about 8 x 200m, 4-5miles in all. Nothing since then because I was in Glasgow yesterday with work, and am knackered today because my baby woke at a funny time last night and disrupted my beauty sleep.

Tomorrow I'm off to the track for the 1st time in my life to do some Yassos - aiming for 10 x 3.30 with 200m recoveries - wonder how I'll do. Hope my blister doesn't recur - I'll be wearing my spanking new Thorlo socks which have loads of padding. so looking forward to that, provided it doesn't snow more overnight.

Then on Sunday the Terminator 10 - apparently it's a bit of an all-terrain job with mud, water and killer hills. At one point runs past the white horses carved into the hillside which should be cool!

27/02/2004 at 08:48
Okay this is now getting silly. I've persevered through the snow for the past 2 days. Now last night we've had about another 6 inches on top of the snow that was already there. My legs already ache in weird ways that I've never experienced since taking up running, probably due to running 15 miles in the snow, so I think last night "Bonus" snowfall will have to stop me. I hope the weather is better where you are.

Snowy PPB.
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