Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles

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29/12/2012 at 17:05
Hi MWW - my son and his wife (and newborn) live hear Haverfordwest in Broadhaven. Lots of hills to train on!!
29/12/2012 at 17:25

Mike - I guessed as much by the routine you were following.  I did 13m with 8m@MP last week.  I'm following the 18 week up to 55m plan.  Just finishing week three tomorrow with 14m MLR (40m total for the week).  Loving the plan so far, though it looks increasingly scary 

Oscarr/SB - I'm looking forward to following your Wall training.  I don't recall you saying whether you are aiming to finish the race in one day, or two?  

MWW - great to see you making progress again.

Edited: 29/12/2012 at 17:27
29/12/2012 at 17:29

Oscarr - lovely part of can't get get away from the hills! I am in Swansea...lots of hills here too!

Ten - you are very brave


29/12/2012 at 18:04

MWW - or possibly stupid, of course   I decided to try more emphasis on mileage and less on short intervals to see if it reduces my injury/illness rate.  Lack of training consistancy is the thing that has prevented me from making progress for too long.

Mike - I forgot to mention that there is a P&D training thread, in case you're interested.  It's not exclusive to VLM despite the thread title.

29/12/2012 at 18:51

Thanks Ten - I have been dipping into the P & D training thread.

It does get scary, but I substituted a LSR for a XC race on a Sunday. I have a Sat and Sun XC race on two consecutive days next w/e 12km and 8km I think they are, then 3rd Feb and 3rd March to finish.

I think I gained overall (compared to banging out say, 45miles on road), because a) high intensity b) relatively short duration c) soft ground.

I also ran more races than the schedule suggested: HM; 10km and 10m in that order. I raced these full on and got a PB in each one. I doubled up only on the 10km by running 12 easy miles that same afternoon, otherwise the race "was it" for the day.

Conclusion, I think it can be a mistake to grind out LSR's beyond 3hrs as you risk going into the race exhausted

NB - personal experience based on two marathons, so what do I know!

29/12/2012 at 19:13
Mike Sheridan wrote (see)

Conclusion, I think it can be a mistake to grind out LSR's beyond 3hrs as you risk going into the race exhausted

When you are as slow as I am, there's little choice.  Tomorrows 14m run will take me around 2.5 hours (planning 5m @ 10:45, 4m @ 10:20, and 5m @ 10:00).  It won't be long before all my LSR's are above 3 hours.


Edited: 29/12/2012 at 19:14
29/12/2012 at 19:40

We can't win Ten, we're wiped out either way! 

Just to ensure that my exhaustion was complete I used to do 20 under 3 hours, but then do 24 in 4 hours 3 weeks out. 

It kind of worked, the problem is we don't know how much better or worse things could have been until we make significant changes, and that can be scary. 

29/12/2012 at 21:45

A friend of mine decided to "make sure of the distance" 3 weeks out and ran 26m.

Everyone (except me) was convinced on the evidence of the "brilliant training" that 4 hours was in the bag. I banged my keyboard in frustration when I heard what had been done and privately predicted 4:15:xx

Actual result 4:19:xx

You see - any LSR above 3 hrs is counter- productive and you get no training benefit as you miss 2 or 3 days of "quality" training in the next week, and again, and again!

So Reiki, in my book, if runners keep on doing the same old thing, they will get the same results! They are only wiped out one way and that is the way that didn't work last time......why are people fearful of trying something different?

I don't get that bit......

30/12/2012 at 07:11

Mike I am this year, radically different, probably won't go over 20 miles five times or do 3 x 20 mile races!  As I always say in my defence, even this year when I was nit much under 4:07, I tend to overtake loads of people in the last 10K, more and more as the miles go on, so I'm scared of losing that I guess. 

And my brother and Paula have modelled the formula, albeit even more drastically, they do the 24 just 2 weeks out.  

Maybe this is a bit like saying my granddad smoke 30 Navy Cut a day and died in his sleep aged 97.




30/12/2012 at 07:15

Mike - isn't that the point of the taper, though, to recover enough to be fresh for the marathon?  It's interesting, because I've read somewhere (I forget where) that the longest run should be slow, but roughly equal in length of time on your feet to your expected marathon time.

The problem for us mere mortals is that a lot of advice seems to come from studies carried out on elites.  They can certainly get away with running over distance.

I agree with you wholeheartedly to try something different.  Exactly why I'm trying P&D this year.  The longer midweek runs are a complete departure from anything I've tried in the past.

30/12/2012 at 07:18

Reikki - you would be overtaking me for sure 

30/12/2012 at 10:39

RR: Don't mention fags!!!! Please! I had a relapse over Christmas because of booze and lack of will power. 

Interesting debate there guys, time v distance. Lack of expreiance dictates that I do not side anywhere and listen. However, the RW Ulitmate shedule (and Garmin one) use both time and distance. For example, 8M slow (76 minutes). Gives a range and today I did the 8 in 73, which is closer to my LSR timings. Case of being flexable within the ranges I think. 

Could have been the best thing that I picked up from the 26.2 thing. That and the importance of maintaining the planned pace even when it feels quite slow, as it won't after 16-20... 

I ready to declare my milage for the year: 1261 + 7 for tomorrow. 


30/12/2012 at 11:52
Great debate about length of LSR and training regimes in general. Having done quite a few marathons the thing I am learning most about is the feedback loop - that is, think really hard about how the last marathon went and the type of issues that need improving (e.g. More endurance or more pace or more inrace nutrition, hydration etc) then alter the next training schedule to address things. My last one taught me that I know have the endurance now but need more pace work for those last miles so my next schedule will include longer tempo runs midweek. Each of us are different with different needs so the skill is to know which bits of the standard schedule to tweak.

Long run distance is often debated and again I think this is person specific. For the fast guys its easy to put a 3 hr limit on training runs cos that covers most of the distance but for slower people its not enough and 3.5 hrs is probably right to build up the endurance but SLOW near to the event and give enough taper time.
30/12/2012 at 11:55
Will tot up my 2012 miles run when I get home and post. Is Sleepy running a comp on this?
30/12/2012 at 12:28
Oscarr: yea, SB is doing it. Based on marathon times and mileage. Next years is the one that counts.

Totally agree BTW. It's an ASPIRE loop: ASsess, Plan, Impliment, Review and Evaluate. Reviewing is a consistent process that should allow for change while implementing the plan. Overall evaluation comes at the end of the process and feeds into a new assessment of progress. So parkruns, 10k and halves are reviews and the marathon result is the evaluation. Not very well described, but am travelling down A1 at 7mph at the moment.
30/12/2012 at 12:52
BoDuke wrote (see)
Not very well described, but am travelling down A1 at 7mph at the moment.

While I am impressed that you can type on your mobile while running at 7mph, it shows that you are not running fast enough 


30/12/2012 at 13:17

Final run of the year is complete!  Fourteen miles, taking the weeks total to 40m and bang-on plan.

There was a bitter wind for the first few miles and my hands were feeling numb (I was wearing gloves!).  Thankfully, the wind died down as the sun made an appearance (scared me at first - I'm not used to seeing the sun on my runs) so my digits warmed up.  Going by the amount of standing water remaining, I know I made the right choice not to run yesterday.

My route change makes for a more pleasant run through a village and into a hamlet.  Unfortunately, a great looking route was blocked by a closure for bridge repair.  When it reopens in another month or so, it should open up an interesting way through (eventually) to a country park I visited ages ago.  For now, I had to double-back and pick up a busier road to make up my mileage before heading back home.  It was still a very nice country run though.

I'm pretty pleased with my pacing again and the run took 2:24:02.  I felt strong at the end running a few seconds less than ten-minute miling for the final five miles.

My total distance run this year is 1361 miles (2190km), which is my highest annual mileage figure to date.  This was 968 treadmill miles and 393 outside.  However, since I started running higher midweek miles, this balance is shifting.  This month I ran 72m on the treadmil, and 73m outside. 

My next run is on New Years Day and will be 8m with strides.

30/12/2012 at 15:07

Hey all

Success!!! We went over to mcs-land today and applied some logic to our run/walk with Rascal.  By using pace management (10 mins brisk walk / 10 mins jog-walk) and giving her some (fuel) left over turkey every 10 mins - she did 10 miles in the same time as she did 9 miles last week (well 1 minute longer!!!! - 2½ hours), didn't need a carry and waggled her tail all the way!  Slow endurance/fat burning for us but I reckon my training won't suffer for taking her out once a week! Won't be every long run though! (Much easier terrain too which contributes of course - no flooded fields today hurrah!)

Don't even feel like we've done anything - guess that's the point - now just need to do another 25 miles on top of that!   At that pace - I am quietly confident it would be easy peasy and there would still be shedloads left in the tank for the 2nd day of the wall (Ten - yip we're doing 2 days - still semi-sane!)

Mileages so far: (guys remind me of your best mara times this year - just for interest to see if more miles generally correlates to faster times ??? though mine is an anomaly I know - must run a flatish one sometime just for fun!)

BoD - 1268

Ten - 1361

Me - 1412 (Langdale - 4:26)

Interesting thoughts on LSRs - a very personal matter indeed I feel - I only did one run over 3 hrs this year, did more (5/6 from memory) for my sub 4 - but my tuppence worth is that it's the pace and recovery that are the important factors! If you do em slow enough - you'll get the endurance benefit and no LSR hangover the following week but it's a fine line between slow enough and a bit too quick!  That's the fun of trial and error ain't it - we'd be bored if it was easy to suss out




30/12/2012 at 15:28

SB - marathon time 4:38.  So good I did it twice   Goona blitz that in 2013, or my name is not Slartybartfast.

30/12/2012 at 15:30

I always knew Tenjiso was short for something

BoD - 1268

Ten - 1361 (x2 - 4.38)

Me - 1412 (Langdale - 4:26)

(edited for spelling - ooopsie)

Edited: 30/12/2012 at 15:30
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