Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles

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14/01/2013 at 16:40

Ten: re 8.5k speed. I agree it is very slow about 11.5 min/mile with HR 110 bpm which I think I could walk! I have yet to have a call with the phys. giving feedback, but everything else seems to stack up.

If I get any clarification on the Recovery pace I'll let you know

14/01/2013 at 19:35

Thanks Mike.

Good to see you back into the running AC8.

Sleepy - those Ultra runners are probably training at that pace going up mountains  

BoD - you'll probably still finish before me if you don't train and just turn up on the day!  Hope it works out soon.  Perhaps you could try one of Reikki's ideas like flotation belt running or Alter-G anti-gravity space thingy (i.e. take the weight off the leg).

This evening I did 8m including 10x100m Strides.  So far "recovery week" seems like more hard work!   I ran on the treadmill to avoid causing more knee problems in the snow.  I felt a twinge just taking the kids to school this morning 

14/01/2013 at 19:48


Very interesting.  I'm guessing you'd have to drive to Silverstone though?  


14/01/2013 at 20:44

RR - Silverstone is about an hour away from me. For some reason we were directed around the perimeter road behind all of the stands and not round the track - I wonder why.

As a bit of idle gossip, I did learn that the guy in front of me in testing in the morning was a Finnish driver who's test was rather shorter than mine. Inference - he was hopelessly unfit! Couldn't be Kimi could it?

14/01/2013 at 21:01

Thanks Ten Its good to be running

14/01/2013 at 23:35
AC 8, good to see your back running. Interesting on the resting HR, I am the same as you at about 40 to 45, my doctor said mine was down to genetics, my sister and 1 of my brother is the same.

Been to Pilates tonight for another session, so so good. Before I started I couldn't touch my toes, I was about 6 inches away, now I can no problem !! Will be interesting to see if I benefit when I race from all the flexability I now have.
15/01/2013 at 14:34

Wow you lot been busy......computers down for a couple of days here so trouble reading up!!! Snowy run in this am with daughter who is in training for Coniston but admits to too much cake over the holidays!!!
Speedcross Trainers great for the snow though very muddy. Better get the hose out me thinks.
Mike great read thanks for sharing that information will be going slower now. On Saturday for my 19 miler I was forced due to the hills down to 10mmiles and I reckon if I can do the whole 21 in under four hours I will be happy. Steve the marathon man reckons its a road marathon equivalent.....
Get well soon RR and BO.

15/01/2013 at 19:07
Hey guys! Think I'm ok (ish) now!!! No pain or tightness in my back an have feelings in my left leg... Woohoo baby, I might be back in action.

Know that is self-centred, but God I've been depressed. This training cycle has been an injury nightmare.

RR: get well soon, gonna try and get one of those aqua things on payday.
15/01/2013 at 21:14

Had a convestion with the phys this evening and understand my test data better now.

I cross checked the new tables with my "output" from Abingdon mara and noticed for the first time that the zone I was running at (by intuition 'cos I knew no better?) was entirely in the Zone 4 of the test Lactate Threshold range, so 137 bpm for 1st 10k then, 136, 140, 144 and 141 for the last bit to finish. Had I gone much above 144bpm earlier in the race (per the phys) I would have struggled at the end.

The lactate mMol's were 3.8, 3.7,4.4,5.8 and 4.7. Apparently 5.8 is unsustainable (for me/my level of fitness) which was why I slowed marginally for the last mile or so. NB (note to self: nothing to do with being knackered at that point!)

So what next: if I improve my base endurance at lower pacing, then the whole graph should move to the right and I should access more of the Zone 4 (LT) speed which he estimates goes from 8:24m/mile up to 6:54 m/mile.

For Abingdon (with no science!) I managed 7:45m/mile pacing so I am 50 secs a mile faster than the floor (8:24) and 39 secs below the ceiling (6:54). I haven't got the time to completely close that gap (or maybe even the ability) but if I got halfway then I might be able to shave 20 sec/mile from my overall time which puts me in 3:16:xx territory.

So the new mantra is the same as the old one: Train slow to race fast, except this time I know for certain what "slow" really is, and it sure as hell is a lot slower than I thought it was!

15/01/2013 at 21:36

mcs - well done getting out in the snow!

BoD - glad things are on the up.  Don't rush things, though.  Injury nightmare describes a normal marathon training cycle   

Mike - that's very interesting reading.  Are you now adjusting your P&D pacing strategy accordingly?  It'll be interesting to see how it all translates into improved training and (more importantly) race times.  Good luck.

Easy five miles on the treadie for me tonight.  Though, perhaps not easy enough given Mike's new pacing.  Weather forecast doesn't fill me with joy.  Just as I was getting out more often, I get forced back indoors again!   It's too icy to take a chance with aggravating my knee.

15/01/2013 at 21:45

Thanks Ten - I'll keep you posted.

Today I ran 8.5m at dawn and HR avg at 120bpm. Pace was 9:22 m/mile for that.....obviously way better than my Himalayan expedition at the w/e.

16/01/2013 at 10:46

Morning all!

AC8 - sorry I forgot to answer your question about mileage logging!  Go to runBritain and then scroll right down to the bottom of your profile page where you'll see a graph.  On the right hand side you'll see an 'Update Training' link.  Click on it and fill in... simples (If you can't see the Update text - double check that you're logged in!

Can't remember where I got it from - but somewhere I read a nice HR analogy: - if you're not efficient at the bottom of the hill; how in hell do you hope to be efficient at the top!  I know it worked for me back in my cycling days when monitors had just appeared - I still remember very vividly coming back from uni and going out on a club run and one of the guys muttering  " I want to know what training she's been doing" as I cruised up a hill - chatting! It does work - I totally believe that - but you do have to be patient!

Turbo sesh for me today - freezing fog here too!  I'm sure it can't be good for you to breathe it in!  I don't know why - maybe my imagination is just too vivid after seeing what it does to your eyebrows, never mind your insides - brrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Glad you're feeling better Bo - take it easy for a bit longer yet eh!

Keep safe and warm everyone!


16/01/2013 at 11:41

Well, got up this morning with the intention of going for a jog around the block, maybe a mile or two... Nope, leg went again as I got out of bed...

I've joined a budget gym, so hoping to get some on impact cardio going on (just got to wait till the end of the month). Checked with my local pool, looks like aqua jogging might be the way forwards.

Mike: that analysis looks really good. There is a local place here that does them, might not be as comprehensive but for £40 can't argue. Might have a go.

16/01/2013 at 13:38

Defo too early to risk it yet patient.....................the body needs time to heal especially all the nerve endings you have jarred and damaged.....
Mike do you run with the Heart Monitor strap on all the time? I have an old Timex watch and HR strap as my Garmin is an old 205,must admit I prefer to just run with the garmin then mess with the HR strap, but reading your information I defo need to train slower, just need to believe it, keep hearing it and reading it just not doing it!!!

16/01/2013 at 14:23
BoD aqua jogging is always the way forward!

I went for acupuncture this morning and jogged 6ish as per schedule around that, felt good compared with walking on it.

Apparently Mortons has a very successful protocol compared with conventional treatments, you don't want a numb foot for life really do you, but today I just had the 75% version, full version is booked in for next week.

It does seem to have helped.

I wonder if there's a place for those tests so severe easier to get to.

Slow is good. I go slow enough heh heh
16/01/2013 at 18:53

8m on the treadmill this evening.  I slipped outside walking on black ice, so decided that running on the paths was a no-no.  The forecasts for the weekend are grim 

16/01/2013 at 21:04

mcs - re HR monitor. I wear it on most days and do react to it if the reading is too low (rare) or too high (more common). On the shortest of recovery runs I may not bother because (until last Wednesday) I pretty much knew what my HR was going to be anyway.....

5m recovery today just about at freezing point but thankfully I avoided any black ice..

Tomorrow is meant to be 10m GA but I am not sure how/when I can fit that in and stay in an upright position.....

17/01/2013 at 10:02

Mike - fascinating stuff on pacing after your test results - guess the conclusion you have come to is to get your pace mixes during training better with emphasis on "slow" runs being hell of a lot slower than at present - 11 min/mile is a pace i don't think i could run at and i'm a lot slower than you (9 mpm mara pace) and i find slowing down to 10 mpm hard to do - i've got lots of time to try running much slower in the build up to the ultra.

17/01/2013 at 10:40

The P&D program I'm following has definitely impressed on me the need to run more slowly than I was previously and I have done many miles now at 11:00 pace.  What I find mind-boggling is that Mike's slow pace is more like 12:00 pace - and he's a lot faster than me!

I could probably get by at 12:00 pace on the treadmill if I had to, but outside I just couldn't go that slow (though in fairness - I previously thought that about 11:00 pace).  I doubt that my stride would be anything meaningful at 12:00 pace, because it is barely faster than walking.

It's very interesting, and I'm fascinated to see how Mike copes with it.

17/01/2013 at 11:51

Mike - what pace do you plan to run your standard 20 mile LSR at when you are at the peak of your marathon training and what is your target marathon pace?

Abingdon entry opens on Friday 1st Feb - if anyone is thinking of entering then be quick cos it filled up in 3 weeks last year.

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