Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles

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04/06/2013 at 13:08

HRM - definitely works and you slowly (no pun intended) move up the speed scale so that your old fast becomes the new slow as Ten has observed.

Last night we had a different task at the track.....our coach decided we were all becoming one-paced, even at 400 or 800's. So the task was to focus on changing pace to simulate race conditions.

We ran the following intervals off 3 min recoveries (there were 30 of us in 3 groups so it took that long to clear the track): 400:800:400:800:400m. We had to change pace so 2:40 and 1:20 was not allowed - coach suggested 2:40 for the 8's and 1:17 for the 4's. secs

My splits were: 1:20; 2:56; 1:20; 2:56 & 1:19

Pace min/m 5:16; 5:49; 5:16; 5:48; 5:11

There was a young lad aged 14 in my group and he belted the first 100-150m each time so I just stayed behind and took him on the last 100m to the finish......

At the end, I took him aside and told him that he had the speed to beat me if he just focused on his pacing. I showed him on the track the landmarks to look out for before pushing for the end. As he began to understand what I was saying, a little smile crept across his face and I'm sure he went home to dream of taking me down next time.

It was magic and a tough session which I thoroughly enjoyed. 

04/06/2013 at 13:18

So if I am training on a spin bike tonight (by way of recovery and because I have race on Sunday) should I be looking at below 70% max HR for my 45 min cycle and same for run?

I'm planning on starting to do hill work (as I HATE hills) and will therefore be working above the 70%. Is it ok to do a mix of training or should it all be low HR. Realistically for this to work should I be thinking about doing it when i am working more endurace focused for the marathon training?

Thanks for all your advice folks!

04/06/2013 at 13:33

Mike - fantastic - you've just created yourself a training partner! I can see you both with a wry smile trying to outpace each other from hence forward.

Hi Em - recovery sessions should in theory be even slower - 50-60%.  Basic training is fine below 70 generally. Have another read of this article - it explains about when to switch between base training (low HR) and mixed up HRs :

http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=2

 

04/06/2013 at 13:42

Mike - what a brilliant story from your track night, i wonder who is looking forward to the next track session more, the young lad or you??

Emma - for me (and i'm no expert) its all about a mixture of paces during each week bearing in mind the target race you are trainng for - each HR zone has a benefit attached to it (2 for endurance, 3 for cardio, 4 and 5 for speed etc) so the mix will be different for a 5K race target vs an ultra - even for the ultra plan Sleepy and i have followed we do one interval session each week of 1 miles at 10 mile pace which is right up in zone 3/4 mixed with the weekend B2B runs all in zone 2 - this maximises the endurance boost but keeps the cardio fitness intact.  Hope this helps.

04/06/2013 at 13:48

Emma - your max heart rate is not the same for different disciplines. So a recovery range for running would not be the same for cycling or swimming.

Mike - those paces are mind-boggling, well done!

04/06/2013 at 13:50

I agree about the paces - BONKERS! Well done Sir!

Oh no - does that mean I have to work out max HR for cycling and for swimming? Maybe I could use the max I got to in the cycle I did on Sunday (did go up a couple of hills) and use that.

04/06/2013 at 13:58

Thanks guys - at my age everyone will overtake me eventually!

I'm just making sure it is not imminent....lol

04/06/2013 at 13:59
EmmaC wrote (see)

Oh no - does that mean I have to work out max HR for cycling and for swimming? 

Unfortunately, yes. I think you would be working too hard when cycling if you were to use your running-related calculations. Sleepy may confirm I have that the right way around 

04/06/2013 at 14:26

Arghhhh - so many different calcualtions for my HR Zones. Most agree but some websites vary massively!

Choosing simplest version I can find....

Resting 46 ish (50?)

Max 179

So recovery/fat burning (Run)  60-70% = 128-142

Aerobic 70- 80% (tempo runs?) = 142 - 156

Anearobic (races?) 80-90%= 156 - 169

Red zone (intervals) 90- 100% = 169-179

Does that look sensible? I will therefore do all LSRs at 128-142, hills and intervals will be aerobic to red zone.

Biking zones seems to be a bit more complicated (an way beyond my bike ability) - so will look at being roughly 10bpm lower as a start and see how I get on.

Re read the article Sleepy - it makes total sense to me. Going to print it out to go in my gym bag to wave at any gym instructor who sneers at my ideas for HR training. Suspect that until I up my tri distance and start marathon training I might not be too good at this - is it stil sensible to do shorter sessions at low HR or should this just be for the LSRs?

Thanks guys! Sorry I lost confidence because of the folks at the gym and because I didn't quite get why it worked. Think I do now (chemist you see not a biologist).

Edited: 04/06/2013 at 14:27
04/06/2013 at 18:15

7 mile interval run done down by the river, wonderful evening for running with a cooling breeze. Included 4 x 1 mile reps at 10 mile pace - either i'm getting a lot quicker or i did it wrong but average pace was 7:22 which is 5K pace but it felt comfortable.  Cos its taper time the run was 3 miles shorter with 2 less reps than previous weeks.

4 mile recovery run tomorrow morning then a day out at Blenheim Palace with a friend.

04/06/2013 at 19:48
Love the story Mike!

More bike for me today, faster, 90 mins, just over 50K

Yawn snore.
04/06/2013 at 22:57

Emma - re HR zones. I agree with your analysis except for one thing.....

Don't forget the anerobic zone is really only for shorter distances.

Even a humble 5k is probably 90% aerobic so in an ideal world us mortals would do well to hold the top end of the Tempo zone in a race.

The elites (and some marathon books such as P&D) suggest a race at 85% HR but I would think that would flatten most of us - well me for one!

So you need occasionally to go to those zones in training but rarely because they take so much out of you and you are on the edge of (injury) disaster.

If you don't mind the swithch in analogy: think of going into the so-called "death zone" above 26,000 ft on Everest. You could do it, but not for long as your bdy starts to break down.

I hope this helps!

Oh, BTW - you don't need an oxygen tank to run, but it might be handy on a swim....only kidding!

05/06/2013 at 06:45

Emma - just looked back at some of my HR stats from the last 2 months for you - summary is;

- half mara race pace - 85%

- marathon race pace - 76% (probably a bit low cos we took it easy)

- LSR training runs - ranges from 67 to 71%

Can't really see a pattern from the LSRs re ability to run faster at the same HR but i do know from other parameters that by keeping in zone 2 my endurance levels have definately improved.

05/06/2013 at 08:08

Thanks guys!

I did a cycle for 47 mins at below 130 (quite often lower than that actually) and didn't feel like I was taking it massively easy - think that cycling generates a lower HR by miles. Then did a little run for a mile with HR below 140 - this worked out at about 10 min miles.

As the time went on my HR steadily but not massively increased, therefore I think on my LSRs I will have to go even slower - fine by me!

 

05/06/2013 at 08:28

HR will almost always be lower on a bike because as the Aussies say about the Brits in the Olympics "we win everything sitting down".

Your body weight is supported by a machine........

05/06/2013 at 09:05

I wasn't puffing and out of breath but still felt I was working - the run actually felt easier at a higher HR. Body weight being supported is increasing too  hopefully more fat burning sessions will improve this.

Don't think I'll win anything sitting down or not - would be nice to finish above half way though - getting nervous now!

05/06/2013 at 10:27

Half way would be good, as long as you mean among the number of competitors and not on the course....

05/06/2013 at 10:36

Yes - I think opting out at 13 Km in the bike course might not be the best advice! Hope I don't get a puncture!!!!

I've been watching Jonny Brownlea winning in Madrid to help with motivation!

Last training session tonight in the pool and then I am having 3 full days off! Want fresh legs for Sunday.

Will have to get up at 5:15 so I can set off at 6am!

05/06/2013 at 11:51

Helloooo...just back from Holiday and I nearly took an entire week off running, but couldn't resist a run in the appenines, 10M, 5 up to Dante's peak and 5 down, the climb up was 1000m, basically 12% on average, the decent was faster!  Now back in training and feeling rusty with a rep session last night consisting of 1 x 6min, 2 x 3min, 4 x 90s, 1 x 6min...I nearly died on the last 90s rep.  Still might have a go at racing tonight, Yateley 10km.

So what have I missed?

05/06/2013 at 12:47
EmmaC wrote (see)

Will have to get up at 5:15 so I can set off at 6am!

That's exactly what I'm doing. Lovely in the summer months with the early light mornings - not so in the winter with the headtorch being a necessity.

I lost my house key on a cross country run this morning. Somehow it slipped through a tiny hole I hadn't noticed in my shorts back pocket . In future I'll go back to attaching keys to my shoe laces.

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