Can't get near sub 3 hr marathon!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure what I'm doing wrong, fastest marathon time 3.18.08 in 2009 (London), 3.34.12 in 2011(Chester) and 3.35.59 2012 (London) half marathon PB 1.25.51 2009 (Liverpool) and 10k regular sub 40 mins 5k 18.30 and fastest mile 5.10 flat out, Training 4 to 5 days a week between 40 and 50 miles in total. Am I just to far from getting sub 3 hrs and should aim for more like sub 3.15 or can some one give me some tips for getting to my all time goal?

I'm not that experienced, so there may be better advice from other forumites.  

First thing that jumps out at me is that you're probably not doing enough miles, to get sub 3 I would have though you'd be in the 5 -6 times a week and the 60 to 70 miles per week range.

You haven't given much detail of how you ran the marathons, but from your times I'd suspect that you really suffered in the second half and had a big positive splti in your times.  This would suggest its your endurance that needs improving, so more miles could be the answer

Your all right ran first half in 2009 1.31.58 and around 1.36 in the last 2 marathon's found when I got to 17/18 miles slowing to almost half my first half pace. I ran 3 20 milers leading up the day of the race, a couple of 18 milers and half a dozen 15 mile runs all pretty comfortably so not sure why I caved in so badly. Might take the milage up to 60 - 70 miles a week and 6 runs a week has anyone got a schedule I could follow which would help me get there??

Go with the mileage and plenty of faster paced running too - I was running 70 miles per week when I ran under 3 hours - and the long runs were all around 6:45 minute miles or faster  -

Piers wrote (see)

Yep, not enough mileage. Need to be doing 60 -70+ a week and running 6 times a week possibly doubling up on some days.

That's tongue in cheek, right?  You don't need to run 70 miles a week, with doubles, to run inside 3.  If the OP's training is all a bit haphazard with no real focus, then doing more of the same isn't going to fix it.  I'd take a look at what his current 40-50 mile weeks are made up of before jumping to the conclusion that more miles are the thing.

Based on his other post I'd say he needs a few more 20+ mile long runs in the lead up to the marathon, but not at the sub-marathon pace Grendel suggests. 

Key is endurance training, so a long run of ~20M and a medium long run of ~15M most weeks.  Caveat: I may have only run 3.03, but seeing as I'm a girl, that is more than equivalent to sub-3 for a guy.

I was listening to an old marathon talk.com podcast from their audio archives and Martin Yelling suggested that to predict your marathon time you double your half time and add 10%

So for a 1.26 half = 86 mins x 2 = 172 mins plus 17 mins = 189 mins = 3.09 for a marathon

I have been doing the same sums for myself but with large figures!

I always took it as 10% of the half time, not 10% of twice that.  Which would make it 3 hours 36 seconds

In practice that's a bit tight, but I'd expect a 1:26 half to convert to closer to 3 than 3:10, with the right endurance training.

My 3.03 came off 1.27.

1:27 x 2.1 = 3:03, nicely done Jools .

3:03.43 off a 1:28.55 half 3 months earlier.  In fairness I did have a bad day at the proverbial office at the half though!  Anyone else?

2:59 off an 84. (In 2007).

I think collating what has been said already, and adding my tuppence worth:

Long runs of 20+ (some fast finishing say last 5miles near mp)

Mid-week 14-15.

Marathon paced efforts of up to 10-12 miles.

Is the recipe. No need to exceed 60miles per week I wouldn't have thought.

Running is one of the few sports where input produces results. Obviously you should join a club with an EA accredited endurance coach who will grow you as a runner. However based on my experiences, either myself or watching others is that the biggest cause of marathon disappointment is related to not enough miles.

Most plans for sub3 will include 7 days a week training with quite a few including doubling up twice a week peaking at 65 miles a week.

It's bloody hard work and the key is getting the miles in, keeping speed sessions in, some hill work, tempo runs and most importantly staying injury free.

The last one is the hardest.

Piers wrote (see)

Most plans for sub3 will include 7 days a week training with quite a few including doubling up twice a week peaking at 65 miles a week.

It's bloody hard work and the key is getting the miles in, keeping speed sessions in, some hill work, tempo runs and most importantly staying injury free.

The last one is the hardest.

It certainly is if you're following a training plan that doesn't include any rest days.  A sure recipe for injury that is.  In my experience the biggest cause of marathon disappointment is a belief that simply 'getting the miles in' is going to produce results.  'Getting long runs in' I'd agree with, but that doesn't necessarily mean a big weekly total.

As for joining a club with an EA accredited endurance coach, it's simply not necessary.   

Jools has it right - a few more 20s probably, a medium long run midweek. Oh and some sensible pacing on the day so you're not overcooked by halfway or even by 18 miles.

I got myself a sub 3 at Chester on sunday - my previous PB was 3hr13....for Chester I upped my mileage from about 50 a week to about 70, and had more mid length runs mid week and more long runs with half or more at MP (followed P&D 50 to 70mi schedule).

Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

As for joining a club with an EA accredited endurance coach, it's simply not necessary.   

As opposed to getting random advice from strangers on a forum who know nothing about you?