FLM 09 - 3.45ers! - Page 7 - Spring Marathon

Velociraptor

11/09/2006 at 17:25

LS, the accepted wisdom is that long slow runs (not ALL your runs!) should be run at 2 minutes per mile slower than your projected marathon pace.

Like you, I find it quite difficult now to imagine running mile after mile at 11-minute-miling. Today's run was a recovery run (which I think it's OK to do at 90s slower than intended race pace, though I could be mistaken) and the race I'm actually training for now is a half-marathon which I'd like to do at around 8-minute miling, so ... excuses, excuses!

The main benefit of the slower pace is that you run within your aerobic zone and it provides better cardiovascular training. It's also easier to sustain for longer, and there's a lot of psychological benefit to be had from learning to be out on your feet for three hours at a time. And it IS possible to do long training runs at 11-minute-miling but race a marathon at 9-minute-miling, provided you include some shorter, sharper runs or structured speedwork in your schedules.

Velociraptor

11/09/2006 at 17:28

My lack of long slow runs compared to take-it-as-it-comes tempo runs showed yesterday. My legs were absolutely fine and could easily have gone faster and for longer, but my cardiovascular fitness held me back. I was exhaling at a volume normally associated with tennis players.

The Ripped Dap justgiving.com/garethjjones

11/09/2006 at 17:50

Dont know if this helps, but I do LSR's as follows.

Target Time for marathon per mile = x

Half of LSR would be 20% slower than x

The return would be 10% slower than x

I also try to do the last couple of miles as fast as I can sustain to try and replicate race day fatigue!?!

Also v.rap is correct, you need to do structured speedwork to improve VO2 max and crucially your running form.

Anyone use a HRM?

QuickQuack

11/09/2006 at 18:28

Hi All,

I too am undecided re; applying for a charity place now or when I get rejected from the ballot..... thinkI'll ponder on that one a little bit more.

Unfortunatley Mr QQ has had to stay on at work for late meeting so my sociable monday evening run with the local club is off . Now I have no excuse not to do a tempo run tonight! Would actually prefer an 11 minute mile recovery run but don't think I can justify it My training plan is crying out for "structured speedwork"!

Not yet got a HRM, Ripped dap but awaiting delivery of Garmin so will soon be well and truly in 21st century!

Velociraptor

11/09/2006 at 20:50

I don't have a HRM and don't plan to get one at the moment, though it's bound to happen eventually if I get to a plateau and need to make my training more logical.

I like your LSR arrangement, RD :o)

None of my speedwork so far has been structured, but I'll start that when I start following marathon schedules in late December (a bit early to allow for a skiing holiday in spring and build in a week of slack in case I get a significant niggle) and meantime try to build up a base of long runs. Abingdon will just be a see-what-needs-to-be-done kind of marathon.

Howard the Chief Assistant Cheerleader

12/09/2006 at 13:38

Where is this article about LSR being race pace +2mins? Did someone say it was in RW? And was that paper version or online?

I'm most intrigued.

QuickQuack

12/09/2006 at 14:21

HRR - the article is on P24 of October's RW "Arrested Development" and the text is in the answer to the first question. Not sure if it's online..

QQ

Howard the Chief Assistant Cheerleader

12/09/2006 at 18:58

Thanks QQ

The Ripped Dap justgiving.com/garethjjones

14/09/2006 at 21:22

Hello All!

Bristol Half this weekend!!

Not in very good shape at all, hoping for 2 hrs.

Cardiff and Snowdonia marathons are looming large. Going to run / walk them. Will start training for (fingers crossed) London in December.

Also, if I dont get into London going to do either Halstead or Lochaber.

Any races this weekend peeps?

QuickQuack

14/09/2006 at 21:55

Good Luck with the Half RD !

My next race is Macc half on 1st Oct. Then nothing planned until (hopefully) FLM . I think I will have to find some races over the winter months to keep me motivated.

Feeling a little disheartned this week after poor tempo run on monday followed by equally bad speedwork session on wednesday. Hoping to enjoy my LSR this weekend particularly as I plan to go extra slow !!

Velociraptor

14/09/2006 at 22:14

Have a good race, RD :o) I'm looking forward to hearing how you get on.

No racing for me this weekend. I'll do my pre-Windsor 12-miler tomorrow afternoon, then hopefully a gentle recovery run with a friend on Saturday. Next week I'll do just enough to stop me from losing confidence in my ability to run.

There's a good half-marathon PB in my legs and I have to be careful not to sabotage it by doing too much at this late stage.

Then 4 weeks to get ready for Abingdon. I don't expect to be able to run the full 26.2, but I would quite like under 4.30.

Howard the Chief Assistant Cheerleader

15/09/2006 at 12:57

I have bought Runners World and found the offending article about long slow runs. Is the article suggesting that this +2 min mile pace is only in the run up to a race or is that generally?

Velociraptor

15/09/2006 at 16:48

It applies to training in general, HRR :o) I'm quite fortunate in being a slow runner who has speeded up, so I can easily run 9.45mm with good form.

I'm definitely going to struggle at Abingdon. I did a 13.5-miler today, and the wheels came off about 9 miles. It was realtively easy to keep going knowing that there wasn't far to go, but if there had been 17 miles still to go ... :oS

Windsor should be OK. I'd have to have a real 'mare on the day not to get comfortably under 2 hours.

andy roberts 4

17/09/2006 at 09:20

Hello all! I feel a bit of a fraud posting here as I've entered the Paris Marathon '07, which is the week before the FLM. But as it's my first marathon, my fears and anxieties seem to match a lot of other peoples on here.

Compared to the ballot, Paris entry was a doddle! Apply online with credit card and confirmation that you had a place came back within 30 secs.

Am now, just trying to build up to a consistent 40km per week by December, and then try and inject some more speed and to lengthen the long runs.

The Ripped Dap justgiving.com/garethjjones

17/09/2006 at 15:47

Welcome & good luck Andy.

I had an absolute mare today at Bristol. 2 hrs. 17 mins 10 secs.

My worst ever performance by a around 30 mins!

Considering my pb. is 1.40 I think you will agree the Dap had a bad day. Cant really complain, my training has been ****

Ah well, worse things happen at sea ;)

Everyone's runs go ok today?

QuickQuack

17/09/2006 at 19:17

Ah.... Sorry about your mare RD. Still you sound quite philosophical about it and with a P.B. of 1:40 ( Wow) I'm sure you'll get back there !

Hi Andy, Bet it's nice to know you've got a definate place for Paris... bet that helps to motivate. Good luck with the training. I was speaking to a friend last night who got his marathon P.B. in Paris, if that helps at all !

I had quite a good long run yesterday but finished with a sore knee so thinking my tapering might come a week earlier than planned so as to be fit for the 1st October.

happy hermit

17/09/2006 at 20:11

Hi,

Found this thread and thought it fits with what I'm trying to achieve. I have got accepted on the St John Ambulance Team for 2007 FLM so am really starting to step up my training. I have a 10K this weekend and am hoping to improve on my PB of 50:05. I am also doing the Henley Half on the 8th Oct and hope to beat my PB of 1:59:28! Training has been going ok, but I too am confused about doing these long runs at such a slow pace...it feels like I am taking a big risk that I would be able to up the pace on the day itelf when I am not used to it.

Anyway I'm sure time will tell.

Good luck for anyone doing races next weekend and hope everyones training goes well this week.

Velociraptor

17/09/2006 at 20:55

Andy and happy hermit, welcome aboard :o)

Sorry to hear you had a bad'un, RD, although you have the reassurance of knowing at least part of the reason. I understand that the race organisation was a bit chaotic at Bristol too! When's your next race?

I've been taking things easy this weekend after my long run on Friday. I did a pleasant 3-miler at 11-minute-miling with a friend yesterday evening, and was out again first thing this morning for about 5.5 miles at 9.15-9.30mm. My legs felt quite ploddy this morning and I couldn't have run much faster even if I'd wanted to.

It's important that I start with fresh legs at Windsor, so I'll just do a couple of gentle runs this week.

The Ripped Dap justgiving.com/garethjjones

18/09/2006 at 17:32

Hello All,

V.Rapt - my next race is the Cardiff marathon!!!!!!! There is a 5 hour cut off; at present that feels like my biggest challenge yet :) The start at Bristol was a shambles.

HH, well done on getting your place. You can now start to make definite plans for FLM. Is it your first mara. / FLM?

QQ - thanks for the encouragment. PB's seem like a distant memory at the moment!

Velociraptor

18/09/2006 at 18:21

Cardiff marathon. So you've got a 4-week gap between a half and a marathon too, RD. It'll be interesting to see how you get on. What training do you plan to do between now and then?

I am going to be unbearable later this week, with taper madness and performance anxiety. If you see me wittering on here, please send me off to make flapjacks or give me your ironing to do.