Lucozade Sport Super Six: Wotsit (sub-4:30)

Abs - sounds painful - take it easy and hopefully things will clear up quickly...  Wotsit - sounds a bit iffy with the school obs - similar stuff going on with our appraisal system at the minute - what's the point of having an assessment system if some of the results are pre-determined??

Good luck for Monday Gladrags - all sounds very heavy...  teacher training sounds a goer though - what age do you fancy?  Tatty - hope you are well now?

Pleased to report that my guts are pretty normal now!! Think it may have been a virus which is good news 'cos who needs a carbs allergy near a marathon??!!  Bashed out a 20 miler in 3hrs 15 mins on Sunday - was pretty warm and was well pleased with that ...  Got dropped off 20 miles away from home (my preferred method of torture) and was lucky enough to have 3 surprise "cheering points" from my kids/mum and dad/sister etc!!!  Have since had a pain under arch of foot but got some free physio time at my local Sweatshop where I got my shoes - seems to be tendon trouble but apparently nothing terminal and have been given go ahead for one last 20 miler on Sunday...  Picked up 2 new gels to try; Powerbar ones - one strawberry/banana and one blackcurrant with caffeine...  Only just realised you are supposed to drink loads of water with them - this may be a problem as I wear a Camelbak with still Lucozade in (works great for me) but don't carry water - do you know/think this will be a problem - is it just getting them down or something more scientific?

Anyone tried these before?  

RHG - hmm, not sure, but surely lots of carbs are good?! I think the idea is to dilute the gel down to the right concentration of carbs in your stomach, so the Lucozade on top might give you funny guts. Give it a try on your last LSR though - it might work OK for you!

Wotsit - that is so annoying, especially after the work you've put in. Makes me very angry. Know that feeling of having prepared so hard for something to the detriment of your other lessons very well indeed!  

Gladrags - teacher training, yay! Go for it - you'll love it. Any idea what age range/subject?

Abs - noooooo, rest that shin!! All fingers, toes and anything else crossable to be crossed at all times until the race!

I am currently engaged in a kind of reverse taper before *the* taper.  After having done NOTHING for a week, I did 3 miles easy on Tues and then another 3 today a bit faster. Will do another short one tomorrow, then probably about 12 on Saturday. Feeling much better now but not quite 100%. Next week will probably be a couple of 3-4 milers, one last club run (good hard tempo effort of 7-8), then 8 miles for the last LSR. Then the week after I am going to be VERY lazy and eat loads.

another day off with the pox boy tomorrow.  but also . He was crying after a poo today because he has spots on his bumhole. Poor little man!

wotsit - boo at the idea of quotas for outstandings? if they were limiting the number per dept to one then surely they should have observed you all first???

Abs - shin any better? self massage does the trick for me - often linked to tight calf muscles?

Tatty - reverse taper is exactly the sort of thing i end up doing! because we normally take a holiday at this time of year, i normally have a pre taper taper (when the weather on hols is too hot for anything else...) - and then try and squeeze a cheeky longer run in when we get home (when taper should have started?!)

gooner - think with the gels, your stomach absorbs them more easily if the salt levels are right - so most gels need water to get that mix right. taking them with flat lucozade might not work? if you're doing london  there's water available every mile though? or aternatively get some properly isotonic gels - SIS do them. tropical favour is my favourite!

and, yes teacher training! have been mulling it over for a while. accountancy has served me well but is never going to be something i'm drawn to for the love of the job! am completely undecided - did a french degree so could get the grant to teach that at secondary or could do primary - there is a course locally for primary teaching with french..... but am not rushing into anything. once this mess is all over am going to contact all the local schools about going in to observe lessons, and take it from there....

oh and (this is actually why i logged in!!) - i ran 20 miles!!!! (mapmyrun says 19.95 but really, what's 0.05 of a mile between friends?) - felt ok. was hard work in the heat but i only walked for 10 minutes max and still finished in 3h30 so am ok with that. fuel of choice remains the milky way so need more info from Wotsit about how on earth you carry frozen chocolate bars? a mammath bum bag i assume??

probably explains why my gels always taste sickly - always drink with isotonic drink, just because i only carry one bottle. Will no doubt have with water on the day though as i recall in London i struggled with that sickly feeling in the last 4 miles.

Fabulous long run Gladrags - splendid pace and with 10mins walking - you must have been speeding along. Did not try the milky way but might do still to see. Shin feels ok today, my calves dont feel overly tight but the backs of my knees do feel knotty. I will massge and stretch away - have booked a sports massage for Wednesday. I had one a week before London and found it really helped.

Will swap tomorrows run for a session in the gym with 20mins treadmill to test things, 20mins bike and 20mins cross trainer. Will then try a run on the road on Monday if all goes ok. I do feel worried about missing the last semi long run. 12miles stills seems a big one to miss.

Niece was on news with the Downing Street thing - is on my facebook page - the link that i commented on - quite funny when they call prime minister a weirdo - oops!

Hope little JP is on the mend Tatty - my kiddies had spots in all the delicate places too, clear backs, spotty mouths and eyes.

On a sort of good note, the nail has come off at last - cannot believe how clean - looks like my toe has been circumcised tbh!! Could only get away with that here

ooh and the Brighton starts - what is going on there - the order appears to be Brian, Wotsit, me, Tatty - if we can all catch Brian he can consider himself well and truly chicked!

Isn't it Brian, Tatty then Abs and I?  The pens go:

• White    Elite athletes running 2-3hours finishing time
• Red        Club Runners and 3-3.30 finishing time  
• Blue       3.30-4.30 hours finishing time
• Pink       3.30-4.30 hours finishing time
• Green   4.30-5 hours finishing time
• Yellow   Fun runners and 5-6 hours finishing time
• Orange Fun runners and 5-6 hours finishing time

If I can catch Brian I'll consider myself to be very drugged!

OK - so frozen milky ways.  I carry mine in the little hilly marathon belt.  Neoprene is surprisingly stretchy.  I can get 5 in easily.

On the gels front, gels are sugar plus electrolytes aka salt.  You need the salt because you absorb sugar alongside salt - you need one to absorb the other, so adding salt not only gives you back some of the stuff you sweat out but also increases absorption rate.  If you swallow a concentrated salt plus sugar solution you run the risk of digestive upset because the concentration that goes into your gut is stronger than that of your blood, so it pulls water out of your blood and into your gut, which is basically diarrhoea.  Thats why its best to either take an isotonic one (salt is the same conentration as blood) or drink water with it, so you water it down.  Mind you, if it works, you're fine.  You just have guts of steel!

I'd go for using the gels with water on the day, just to be sure.  

 Doesn't everyone feel sick in the last couple of miles?  Its the jiggling.

Good plan for swapping the long run.  My shin splints were all about under-performing glutes.  Are you still doing your pilates exercises?  Marathon talk suggest that taper is the ideal time to get regular with those exercises.  I really must do that...

Storming run Gladrags!  Well done   Did you get out for lunch?

Tatty - hope JP is less itchy?  Good luck tomorrow with your reverse taper.  

Well done Gooner!  sub 4:30 easy, surely?  How are you going to pace London?  Is this weekend your last long run?

Oooh, 12?  A short one, surely?

Thanks for all the advice people... Stuck between two plans of action now - get people along the 20 on Sunday to pass me some water (as I can't really carry both); or go out tomorrow and try to find different gels...  Not sure why I didn't notice that these ones needed water - there were so many to choose from and panicked a bit!!  Can't say the SIS tropical sounds "un-sickly" but of you recommend I could try...

Particularly liked the idea of the caffeinated one for the last gel - one of the powerbar ones is, can't seem to find the cherry cola one that one of you mentioned as that sounds my sort of thing...

Have to say though that the feedback on the "Forgoodnessshakes" berry flavour is "outstanding"...  actually had 2 on Sunday after the run - tasted lovely, saw me through until my roast, and legs felt far better on Monday/Tuesday than I ever remember last time out...

As for "easy" Wotsit... not even going there... I seem capable of speedy things one day, then nothing at all the next so taking nothing for granted... on the day will use my GPS and try to stick to 10 min miles for first 2-3, and then try to hit between 9 and a half and 10 up to 20 and just flail about as fast as possible from there on in!!!  Had a strong finish last time, as opposed to the Basil Fawlty walk I was doing the first time round with cramp, so have seen both ends... I suppose just getting round needs to remain my real goal ...

But Gooner - you didn't have a problem!  I'm not saying you never will, but they worked fine with jjust your lucozade last week, so probably will this week.  I'd be drinking water on the day in addition just for sure, but I only drink a few mouthfuls with my gels, not huge volumes, so its not like trying something new, just giving you an extra safety net.

Love your pacing strategy.  I suspect we're all thinking about the 'hanging on' bit over those last 6m...  or rather, during that last 10k race.

Today I have to fling some thresholds into my 2 hr run.  That sounds nice.

Oh yes, Brian, Tatty, me, Wotsit - was thinking you were pink Wotsit.

Enjoy the runs today folks - i am now off to the gym Did you run with your shin splints Wotsit, not even sure it is that. Will ask physio on Wednesday.

Your pacing does sound spot on RHG and agree if your fuelling is working for you, stick with it - adding a bit of water on the day will do no harm im sure - that is my plan.

oh yes gooner - if you're combo of gels and lucozade works then don't mess with it? and realise that tropical gels sound foul - but the pineappley taste does mean they aren't as sugary sweet as the orange ones - in my opinion!

i was down for green start at brighton - guess should have estimated finish time as 4h29 rather than 4h30? a lesson for next year? think halstead is so small that it'll be just one big pen! and 4h30 (or thereabouts) will bring me home with the stragglers.....

and  at being able to carry 5 milky ways!!!! will get one of the belts and try it out!!!

happy running all - much cooler out there today.

Gym session went well, did 25 mins treadmill inc 5 mins walking warm up/cool down plus 23 mins bike and 23 mins cross trainer. Also cycled there and back - felt lovely to be out on the bike. Am going to do a relaxing pilates session later - I think you have probably guessed Wotsit that i have been slack there. No pain as such, just twinges that you get anyway when working your butt off.

And forgot to say Wotsit, dont dismiss catching Bri - he has now revised his goal to 4 30 and he will be ecstatic. I think he can smash it but ultrasound has diagnosed hernia so has to see doctor next week to see what happens next.  He had no problems on his last long run, but will be v careful.

My phone has just bleeped a message so my guess is Gladrags and I have cross posted, lol!

Next year eh Gladrags - i nearly had company

I think next year i might try for an Olympic triathlon - whos up for it?

Ok Ok - not broke, don't fix it...  I know you are right...  however despite the good time, felt pretty out of it and wondering if a caffeine boost wouldn't go amiss...  seem fine with lucozade gels and lucozade, but they don't do a caffeine one, and these power bar ones do say you need 400ml of water... 

Oh good old tiredness addled brain disease is kicking in...  need to get in right frame of mind for tomorrow as not on it at all today so far...    Bad day at work yesterday, well actually working at home which was meant to be reasonably relaxing but had to get James from school at 9.30 at he was running a massive temperature so had little company, and then an endless stream of 'phone calls where I was trying to sound all professional whilst sorting out the little man... 

 Ho hum, will aim for long sleep tonight and see how I go - all downhill after tomorrow although was reasonably alarmed to see schedule says 17 next Sunday when I was expecting about 15...

I'll have some of whatever you lot are drinking...   gyms, pilates, cycling, thresholds... making me feel exhausted just reading it!!

There is an SIS gel with caffeine in which is isotonic and needs no water - but have just been listening to Marathon Talk podcast on my run and at about 35 mins there is a very interesting interview with a guy from Leeds Uni about caffeine.  He says take it right from the start of a marathon as it increases the energy your body can take from fat, so you don't use up all the glycogen reserves too early, meaning you don't hit the wall.  Now, I've sadly missed trying this out on a really long run, but you haven't Gooner!  Have a listen, but the gist is, go for 3-4 pro-plus or equivalent caffeine tablets (150-200mg) taken 30-60 mins before the start of a run.  Then you shouldn't need any extra through the run as it takes 5 hrs for the caffeine levels to drop to 50% of their max.

I've used it with shorter races (up to HM), but not taken caffeine right from the start at a marathon.  Now I'm wondering whether to risk it.... hmmm....

Oooh - he also says better to use energy drink that gels and water, but not why?

Run all done for me today.  11.21m in 1:54, so 10:11 av pace, with 3 x 10min intervals at about 9mi pace.  And a walk because my Dad phoned   He questioned why I was so out of breath.  Doh.  It felt quite good though, despite being tired from a smoke detector incident at 3am.  We couldn't get the damn thing to stop beeping, even when we took the battery out.  Took quite a long time to remember about the second one.

17 is a lot to do next Sunday Gooner?  I thought no more than 2 hrs?

Abs - I did run with my shin splints, but mine always hurt more when touched (or kicked by a child) than when running. Def talk to the physio and get back doing you exercises!  I did mine last night, seeing as I'd mentioned it to you.

Is no one running?  Slackers!

I had 30 recovery run down on my schedule today, so went out for a run with my club and chose a group that ended up a bit slower than I'd anticipated but I didn't want to risk going faster at this point!

Rubbish 48 hrs of work coming up, plus my first evening class to teach.  I'm going to enjoy teaching from 6-9pm, right?

what a glorious morning!

am going to settle straight into my new role by joining some Mums from school at a gym class - coffee beforehand, natch! but might add on a shortish run afterwards, depending on how hard body conditioning turns out to be....

evening class sounds awful? did you get any choice?

body conditioning turned out to be a bit too aerobics-y for my liking. am just not coordinated and felt like an elephant amongst the crowd of graceful yummy Mummies who have clearly been doing the class for yonks..... the core bit at the end was very good but won't be going back.... still- lots of other classes to try!

so anyway - no running - will save that for tomorrow. left shin has been feeling a bit tight so might keep it gentle...

Ooh i know the types of classes you mean, prefer something a bit more strength based. Not the shins - you were doing v well without niggles. A few gentle runs sounds wise. Liking the sound of the pre workout coffee though

I did just over 5 this morning, shins were fine, tightness behind knees below hams which i look forward to having massaged out tomorrow. Felt surprisingly fresh, chugging along at approx 9 30 pace. Did not feel that pace, so lots to be said for a few days off. Think i must replicate the previous 3 days before the marathon.

Zipvit delivery arrived today followed by a 10% discount email - grrrrrrr! Nevermind, I have my banana gels.

Hubby now appears to have a groin strain as well as a hernia - he is not remotely worried, very strange

I think he's getting in his excuses early, so when he gets chicked he can say 'well, I did have a hernia, and a groin strain, so I wasn't really trying...'

Yummy Mummy exercises classes are inherently evil.  Better to go for some core stuff to complement running.  Poor old Alibugs knackered her achillies doing zumba and still isn't back running, after 3+ months

 Evening class was kind of a choice.  Its the same course that I teach in the daytime, just condensed.  I could pass teaching it over to someone else, but it would take hours of me training them up in what to do and teach and how the system for marking works, for which I wouldn't be paid.  So better to just teach it, given that I've already done all the prep.

Well done on the speedy run - how fab to be feeling lovely and strong.