Beyond #asics262: life after Target 26.2 for sub-3:30 runner Malcolm

What happened to Malcs after the Paris Marathon?

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13/12/2013 at 08:26
Malcs - it really was a schoolgirl error! I stepped off the side of the TM to fiddle with my iPod and thought I had put it on pause, so just stepped straight back on and went flying off the back. Hit the TM behind me, ended up with a gashed knee and a bruise on my thigh the side of a large grapefruit. A bit stiff for the next few days but thankfully all OK to run on the Sunday - by which time the bruise had turned purple and black which was very attractive! I got a big PB in the marathon though, so all good

Poo Diamonds - I'd also kill for a 91 minute should definitely be aiming close to 3.15 with that sort of time.

Mr P - well done with the hill work....definitely not my kind of thing!
13/12/2013 at 10:17
Today's schoolboy error. Don't think that 2 x 20 mile runs are enough, just because you ran a marathon a year before. For my successful sub 3.30 attempt I followed the rule of " your 5 longest runs should total 100 miles"
In the failed attempt I really struggled in the last 6 due to my lack of endurance.
13/12/2013 at 11:05

Totally agree with that Millsy1977. I think that is the single most important element of the training programme.

13/12/2013 at 11:54

Freemers - bloody hell! You really went for it then. And you still got a PB? Seems to be a running theme here - make some schoolboy/girl error the week before and bag yourself a PB I shall start thinking of bizzare stunts to pull in week 16!

Millsy - that is a good one. I just about scraped tnto the 5x=100 this year and I think it made a big difference. However, total mileage and number of 20+ milers does seem to be a point of contention. It sparked a bit of debate last year about whether it was a necessity or a case of horses for courses.

Under Sam Ady only did one (or two) 20+ runs last year (maybe he can confirm as I'm not certain but it wasn't 5). He still managed to do sub 3:30 and ran a pretty even pace.

DS2 - it'll be interesting to see what Steve's view is on this. I kind of hope he is in this camp but whatever he prescribes I will follow to the letter.

13/12/2013 at 12:03
Malcs wrote (see)

Under Sam Ady only did one (or two) 20+ runs last year (maybe he can confirm as I'm not certain but it wasn't 5). He still managed to do sub 3:30 and ran a pretty even pace.

He ran a brilliant marathon but with more longer runs he may have run faster...

BTW Ady I'll be looking for some Comrades tips as I'm planning to do it in 2015.

13/12/2013 at 12:04

Hey Malcs, this thread is going along quickly, not even time to catch up properly. There was talk about rugby, well that is a hot topic in my house with recent events at Bath!

Really I am jealous of this Marathon talk so am going to do Taunton Marathon in April. I am, and don't try and talk me out of it.

13/12/2013 at 12:16

Malcs - I found that when I was younger I could run a marathon on a lot less than 5 x 20 milers - but when I tried it in my 40's I failed miserably!

The endurance part felt quite comfortable on the day this time and I put that down to running a lot of LSR's.  Interestingly, I've never been so slow but ran my fastest marathon in 20 years!

13/12/2013 at 12:18

Minni - fair point Then again, if he had done more would it have been too much? I'm with you on doing more longer runs just because I feel I need it to build the endurance, something I've struggled with before this year.

It seemed to suit Ady though and as we all know Sam is an outstanding coach well known for getting the best out of people.

Reg - what's happening at Bath? Just lost your director of rugby I see. Are you a season ticket holder there?

Ha ha You'll be lucky to find anyone to talk you out of running here! That's brilliant - sub 3:30 target I hope?

13/12/2013 at 12:52

DS2 - cross post there. Interesting. I'm sure age is a factor though aren't we supposed to have better endurance as we get older? Or is that just wishful thinking?

seren nos    pirate
13/12/2013 at 12:58

hubby is in his 50's and is finding the more long runs the faster he gets,......maybe it is linked with age.he gets lots of 21 miles in as its a nice circular route

13/12/2013 at 13:04
The name has been temporarily adopted due to toilet issues during the aforementioned HM. I'll return to normal once the joke has started to wear thin.
I'll be very interested in hearing the various opinions on long runs, both number and pace.
Edited: 13/12/2013 at 13:05
13/12/2013 at 13:09

Again, I don't think its something you can put down to any one factor.  The more experience you have at longer distances the better you (might) me. 

I often run an Autumn marathon of only 2 or 3 longer runs and this tends to come out at about 5 minutes slower than my next marathon.  I don't 'race' these, just use them as a test.  I think I could match or even sneak in a pb off this type of build up if I really wanted to but I think I could only do it once then have to do the proper build up for the next one.

13/12/2013 at 13:21
The number of long runs is possibly a horses for courses thing and for me it really seems to affect how well I cope with the last 6 miles. If I get my body used to running 20 miles then its only really 6 miles to worry about on the day. As long as I pace myself correctly.
13/12/2013 at 13:21

PD - (found an acceptable shortening) - I'm in agreement with the others that 5 or so 20+ milers is the way to go. On pace I think everyone would agree that it has to be done slooooow. Hmm, wasn't that one of Millsy's schoolboy errors - running long runs too fast?

Aiming to run 8mm MP I ran my long runs at 9-9:30mm pace. Not sure what the gereral rule is though. Minni and others are alot more experienced than me!

Minni - interesting stuff as ever! 

Edited: 13/12/2013 at 13:22
13/12/2013 at 13:34

Can someone please explain to me: my understanding of running the long run slow, is to balance the need and ability to run for the required duration during a marathon, so running slowly allows one to run longer during training without increased energy expenditure so we're 'used to' running the time it will take to run a marathon, and to allow adequate recovery before your next long run likely to be 7 days later, as running too fast may result in increased injury or requirement for longer duration for recovery, ricking further injuries.

It feels like there are more reasons behind having to run slow. Is there any other reasons for running a long run slow? Thanks!

13/12/2013 at 13:39

I wasn't a great fan of P&D when I followed it last year - found a lot of it slow and boring but I did get the desired result as did nearly everyone else I know who used it.

I ran those at MP + 20% for the first half and MP+10% for the second half, unless I was running some MP miles in there. I think that worked really well.

Having said that I'm not going to use P&D this year. I want to have more fun and run more intervals. I might pay for it but last year I had to run my GFA time. This year I want to enjoy my training and enjoy marathon day. If it doesn't work out I'll have a rethink!

In truth, I have made running all about the marathon and I'd like to get away from that.

Just took a look at my old running diaries and ran everything too fast!!!

13/12/2013 at 13:40
For me it helps to build up the aerobic system, mentally gets the mind used to being out on the road for a long time, it makes me more efficient ( not sure on the exact science but its supposed to help you burn more fat than carbohydrate). The main benefit for me was that I felt a lot fresher by Tuesday so I could put 100% effort into my intervals or tempo sessions.
When I was running the long runs too fast, every run in the week ended up as an easy recovery run as my legs were smashed to pieces.
13/12/2013 at 13:41

Sorry, Malcs, I meant to add that my training this year is likely to look quite a lot like yours! looking forward to you posting them up!

13/12/2013 at 14:56

I've always done my long runs slow - between 8:45 and 9:15 pace and usually have a bit of a battle on my hands with other club runners who want to do their long runs at marathon pace (not surprisingly they got injured) or at around 8:30 pace (for sub 3:30). Sometimes I go a bit faster if it feels really comfortable, other times even 9:15 feels really hard and I have to stop off for jelly sweets just to stay motivated. I've never quite understood why they say it is not worth being on your feet for longer than 4? hours as it is all about building up the endurance and the mental coping surely. I like to do a 24-mile run for the psychological confidence. 

In my best marathon I managed to do the 100 miles of long runs. In Florence, I had done most of the long runs before I did my lower back in, but did very little in the last 3-4 weeks - felt fine on PB form until mile 23 when I hit the wall big time. So, you clearly have to keep running the shorter distances too. For Boston, following straight on from Florence, I had to ramp up my mileage very quickly at the end because a foot strain in the snow knocked me back and training in Abu Dhabi in the heat and on the flat was not good. As a result I only just got up to 21 miles. I got away with it injury wise, but had nothing in the legs from half way.

13/12/2013 at 16:12
I've only done one marathon but ran all my 20 milers (6 in all) at 8:15-8:30 pace. Probably on the fast side but still within the McMillan range for long runs for 3:30 marathon and it didn't seem to affect me adversely. I ran the marathon in 3:29. Would be interesting to see what the coaches advise Malcs for his long run pace for Paris.
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