Paris marathon 2013 here we go! A.W's Sub 3 attempt!

Asics Target 26.2 PB Hunter A.W

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07/01/2013 at 13:33

Still not well DS2? That's not good, at least its now and not in a few more weeks when the training gets heavier. Things are going well at the moment and I'm feeling good with the training, lets hope it carries on in that way!!!

Badbark - The scheduled run was actually 16 miles in 1.50, so I was a bit slower than scheduled. I raced XC on the Saturday so knew it would be a bit of an ask to run that sort of time so decided to run the first half at around 7.30 pace and then push on if I felt good closer to MP.

I'm not sure about the 20's pace yet as I only have the schedule up until the end of this week, but this weeks 19 miles on Sunday is in 2.30, so a bit slower at around 7.45-8 minute miles. I like to run close to MP for at least a couple of miles towards the end of a long run to get the feeling of the pace on tired legs.

I often find the same with speeding up, its weird how it can improve how you feel!?

07/01/2013 at 13:38

Just an easy run today, it did'nt feel particularly easy though!! Was a little tired during the run, but overall I feel fine.

I combined todays easy run with my strength and conditioning work, so went out for 4.5 miles, then straight into the gym completed my 15 minute continuous strength workout (3 exercises in rotation continuously) and the ran the 1.5 miles home.

6 miles in total ran today at an average pace of about 8.30 a mile.

07/01/2013 at 16:08

Today's run was just about turning the legs over so what you did was fine and good to keep that strength and conditioning work going. Mine were barely moving in first half mile and averaged a pedestrian 9:30 for my four miles.

re Sunday's run, I think you may have picked up a little bit too much having done the cross-country. While some runs need to be at marathon pace, on some days, the focus should be on longer and slower and after the cross-country, important not to overdo it and risk injury or getting run down or getting that tired that it affects the Tuesday/Wednesday runs too much. 

07/01/2013 at 21:40

A.W  - looks like you are in great shape. I am quite envious as I have been taken out by a bug my wife brought home from her school. And if that wasn't enough it looks like it might have morphed into a mild case of shingles - not happy!

Steve Marathon Coach - I am intrigued by the pace of peoples long runs. You mentioned taking well over 2 hours for a 15 ( 8+/mi) and then doing 4 @ 9:30/mi but still being confident that you are in sub 3 form!

I came (very) late to running and have just assumed that the way to run faster marathons is to do more miles and faster miles, which has served me well.

If any of my 20 mile runs were anything close to being as slow as 8 minute mileing I would genuinely be devastated and assume that it just wasn't going to happen for me that year.

It seems so counterintuitive to run the long runs as slow as generally recommended - however it does have a certain appeal. The thought that I could just cruise round my long runs at 8 to 9 min miling does sound tempting but I just don't think that I could convince myself that it would deliver the goods.

It is amazing how we all end up in about the same place but from so many different directions.

Just to make sure I am not kidding myself I checked my data for this week last year and true enough it was as follows

W/C 08/01/12               50:39 miles @ 7:18/mi

Long run:                   20:01 miles @ 7;18/mi

Of course this might explain why my legs ache continuously for the whole 4 months of training!

07/01/2013 at 22:43

Evening Alex! Thought I'd nip on and see how the faster chaps are doing! Looks like training's going well! Hope week 4 is good too!

08/01/2013 at 09:18

One Gear

some slow runs are fine as long as there is a good balance of training covering all the bases and some of your runs are faster.

You shouldn't do all your long runs at a very slow pace (and nor will I) but I personally know from my speedwork and races what sort of shape I'm in and the key is to do enough training to build endurance but not train that hard that you are permanently tired and on the edge of injury and illness and being badly run down.

Ie I would rather do say 15 weeks at 60 miles a week with slow runs at an average of 8 minute miling but a fair percentage of speedwork, races, tempo runs and some longer runs with sections of marathon pace than say 40 miles a week at 7 minute miling or 6 weeks at 80 miles a week and then a month off.

Some runners are different and I know some can't run their long runs as slow as me but I will certainly do a 20 at close to seven minute miling prior to the marathon and a half-marathon or two at maybe 6:15 miles but it won't bother me if  3 or 4 of my 5 or 6 20s are slower than 8 minute miles if it means running at that pace allows me to do some good speedwork and tempo work midweek.  

08/01/2013 at 11:25
Hey One Gear, there seems to be a lot of bugs flying about lately! I had a 24 hour thing start Saturday through to Sunday, luckily didn't affect my training except a quick pit stop home half way through my long run!!

It seems as though we. May have got a team 1st place medal for Saturdays XC in the 12 to score. I was 7th scorer so that's a nice bonus for what was a good run for me.

Just back from my 8 x 800M reps. Wasn't a great run for me today, not in terms of time as my reps were pretty good, but I just didn't feel great. My legs were screaming at me to stop in the first couple of reps, I had a couple of disruptions for traffic during another couple of the reps and had to extend two of the rest periods between reps while I switched sides of the canal!!!

But at least I got it done and kept my pace pretty well! Will report back later with some split times when I've downloaded from my watch.
08/01/2013 at 13:01

One gear - I don't like running slow! In fact I feel more comfortable running faster but I'm beginning to see the benefit of doing some longer runs slower. I do, actually, think that some people limit their potential by getting one-paced at too slow a tempo and I constantly worry about that and, also, not having the speed in my legs when I need it on race day. I think Steve puts it very well though. I have definitely benefitted from some easier runs and have managed to build my mileage back up without feeling tired or that I'm on the edge of injury so i will try to carry on the same way. Finally seem to be over my virus and did 9 miles first thing including 4 at HMP and felt pretty good.

A.W. - good effort on getting through them. Those will be the sessions you will look back on when you finish Sub 3 on 7 April and know they made the difference.

Great news on the team prize as well. Nice bonus!

08/01/2013 at 16:44

Run now uploaded to the MyAsics tool (its quite nice to use for keeping track of my runs other than on here) and time to give you my data and splits from today's run!

Total run was 8 miles in 59.50 at an average pace of 7.28 a mile.

Splits were - 2.58, 2.53, 2.56, 2.53, 2.50, 2.45, 2.50 and 2.55

On the whole I think they are a touch quicker than the last time I ran 800's about a month ago, and with feeling a lot more tired than I did a month ago - looking in my diary I noted I felt good - so quite please.

08/01/2013 at 20:12

I have a bug too, but just a case of Manflu so I'm hoping to be back out on the roads tomorrow night. I could have run tonight but thought a rest day would be more beneficial in the long run. Tomorrow's race is off the agenda though. 

08/01/2013 at 20:17

Steve Marathon Coach

Thanks for the reply.

The only thing I do at a different pace is a once a week track session. I see a lot of people do "marathon pace" within their long runs. Does this mean marathon race pace (06:45 for me) or something else? If it does mean race pace, if I tried to do 10 miles of that in a long run I think it would finish me off! Not helped by the fact that I live on the edge of the Cotswolds so finding one mile flat is tricky - let alone 10. 

Hi A.W. - I found the Yassoo 800s were a great indicator of form. I am fortunate to have a track not too far away to do them on. Around this time back in 2010, I was struggling to bring them under 3 minutes every time at the back of a group of faster guys who were hitting them comfortably. By the end of March it was comfortable even though the sessions were the day after my long runs.

DS2 good to see you appear to be back on track.

08/01/2013 at 23:05

That's another good session AW - they give a rough connection to marathon form but it does depend on basic speed to endurance ratio and know some fast twitch runners who can do 2:50s for 800s but couldn't run 3:30 in a marathon and some slow twitch runners who would be outside three for the 800s but would have a far better chance of a sub-3 marathon.

I did 6 x 1000m tonight at vaguely similar overall pace but varied speeds within ie faster straights and slower bends, progessively faster per 200, 400 hard, 200 float, 400 hard etc.

One Gear - yes sections can be at marathon pace but you don't need to as much as 10 miles straight away or hit marathon pace straight away. ie could do 15 mile run and first five and last five could be slower than normal ie 8 min miles and then middle 5 could be sub 7s

09/01/2013 at 00:27

You must be over your bug DS2 after that 9 with 4 at HMP. Hope you have turned a corner with it. There's so much illness knocking about at the momet, I'm becoming paranoid about picking any up. There's a guy at work whose had a bad cold, co I've avoided him a lot!

Hard session there AW and I think with the small recoveries it get tougher as the session progresses.

Like the way you break up those 1000m reps Steve, so much easier done on a track.

I ventured out and did 4 x 2000m reps around my local Park (I've just started week 1 this week) - perfect traffic free environment and wide paths. Managed to average between 6.02 & 6.10 for most. Was glad with that but felt the 14 XC miles in my legs from Sunday.

09/01/2013 at 09:30
Good work on the 2000m reps KR! I found them tough mentally when I did them in week 1.

Nice session Steve, I like the idea of varying speed during reps, I rarely get to a track though for reps so it would be difficult for me.

I think I'm very much in the slow twitch camp!! I've never been blessed with any great speed and previously I've always had better performances over HM and marathon compared to 5ks and 10ks. But I guess if I focussed a bit more on training for those distances specifically I would see more improvement!?
09/01/2013 at 14:56

Today's session was 10 miles at 7.30-8.00 min mile pace.

Actual run today was 10 miles in 1.14.15, average pace of 7.26 a mile.

Legs a little tired over the first couple of miles which were in the 8 min mile range. Felt really good from about the 3 mile point and really didn't feel like any effort to keep up the 7.30 mile pace. Felt pretty easy pace wise which surprised me a bit after yesterdays intervals, I expected the whole run to be a little hard work, not just the first couple of miles.

A question for you Steve, or anyone else who might know. What energy drink or gel type product is available at feed stations at the Paris marathon? I'm thinking ahead to what I should trial in training, in previous marathons I've used about 4 SIS go gels which I take with me, but if there is something available on route that I can get on with I will use that. 

09/01/2013 at 21:43

Hey Alex. Good 10 mile run today. It'd be nice to be able to keep that kind of pace for such distance. Hopefully by February and my half marathon, I'll be able to do so.

How do you carry your gels during a marahton. Do you use a gel pack? I've also seen people stick them to their arms or just hold them with their water bottle? 

Good luck with the rest of the week!

09/01/2013 at 21:45
AW..just picked up your thread from an e-mail off runners world about the asics Target 26.2.Interesting reading and I will try and read your posts over the last month of training.Like you I,m searching for that elusive sub 3(current pb 3.05 London 2012.Do you publish your plan weekly as it may be of some help in my quest.Anyway best of luck and well done so far.....
09/01/2013 at 22:01

Your trainings going really well Ady, I'm sure your going to be able achieve your goals. Just look after that knee!!! On the gels, I have a fuel belt with elastic loops you put your gels into - I've just been bought a new one for Christmas which I need to try out as the old ones falling to pieces!!!!

Hi dawsey67, good luck with you sub 3 campaign! I publish the plan weekly, so every Sunday I post up the next weeks training.

09/01/2013 at 23:16

Another good run today AW. I think i could have only gone that quick had I been on a bike! Did 14 slow but it felt quick.

I think Ruth will be able to confirm about what Marathon has in terms of drinks and gels as she usually does the research for this.

10/01/2013 at 08:53

Update for the food diary Ruth.

I've made some adjustments to make sure I'm getting more water and no long periods without food.

Tuesday's Food -

6.30am - Special K (50g) with some dried fruit (30g) and Skimmed milk. Coffee with skimmed milk.

8.30am - Graze Mango Lassi punnet.

9.30am - Training - 800m reps - 8 miles total

10.30am - Apple

2pm - Bread (100g) and strawberry jam. Clementine. 2 pint water. 

4.30pm - Fruit cake. 1 pint water.

8pm - Homemade pasta (150g) with homemade tomato and butter bean sauce. 1 pint water.

9pm - Haribo sweets (20g mini bags x 2)


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