Paris marathon 2013 here we go! A.W's Sub 3 attempt!

Asics Target 26.2 PB Hunter A.W

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05/02/2013 at 10:07
A.W wrote (see)

I have used SIS Go gels before and got on ok with them from memory, so may be best served just going back to them!? I also got some Torq strawberry yogurt gels to try - these don't have caffeine?

Torq strawberry yogurt gel don't contains caffeine but are quite nice. I also like Black Cherry. If you want Torq gels with cafeine, you need to choose Torq gels with Guarana. Apparently, it is the equivalent 89mg of natural Caffeine. I have stopped using them (no particular reasons except that I was given other gels) but I am still using their recovery product.

05/02/2013 at 10:13

Yes def keep going with the physio while still aware of pain, that way he can monitor it and we know where you are. It will also improve it or at least stop it getting worse.

What are the other options suggested?

05/02/2013 at 11:09
Hi Sarah,

He suggested as a last resort option if pain gets worse to have cortisone injection. He obviously wants to manage it through normal treatment at the minute, but he was saying as the marathon is quite close, if the pain got to a point where it was affecting what training I could do, an injection treatment on the short term would help me with this type of problem, taking away the inflammation which is causing the pain.

What is your opinion on this type of treatment?
05/02/2013 at 12:00

Hi Alex that wouldn't be my first option.

You have to think about the long term picture here too, it certainly wasn't anywhere near that point when I saw it and It wouldn't be my treatment of choice. There are other options but if it got to that point which it hopefully won't then it would be best to see a sports medicine doctor get a scan and look at the options then. Rest and cross training should settle this though if it gets to the point where you can't train and making sure you identify the cause of the problem all the way up the chain to your lower back which will have an effect on the tightness of the lower leg and foot.

You could try using hirudoid cream 4x daily which will help with the local inflammation.

Keep me posted!!

05/02/2013 at 12:27
Thanks Sarah,

Hopefully like you say it won't get to a point where it becomes that much of a problem. At the moment it generally gets a little bit stiffer and tender in the evening after running, and I then ice and stretch every couple of hours the rest pf the day, by morning it feels ok again.

As long as that cycle continues its going to be ok I think.
05/02/2013 at 15:03
A.W wrote (see)

Hi Crazytown, I think that will be the plan if I'm feeling good.

Sorry to interfer but I am not sure if it wise to be running a half marathon at 100% in a marathon training schedule (unless extra weeks have been allocated). You would need to taper for about 1 week to be 100% on the starting line and then another week to recover. I am not your coach (and again I am sorry for interfering) but I would try 4 or 5M at marathon pace and then pick the pace up if you are feeling good.

05/02/2013 at 15:27

I certainly don't think anyone should a half marathon with an injury and at the moment I get the impression it's not what I would call a proper injury but a warning sign that requires treatment and careful moitoringand erring on the side of caution .

 Normally, I do feel it is an advantage to have a fast half marathon in the build up, and if not 100%, at least 95%. I have run a hard half-marathon in the last four weeks of almost every one of my spring marathons in the last 30 plus years, though I know some prefer not to take the risk and want longer to recover but judging by the volume of people running half-marathons in February and March, most marathoners run a half-marathon..

This year, I am doing one about 6 weeks before, which is just the way it works out and I don't see a problem of one in early February, other than the foot issue.

In terms of controlling pace judgement and so you aren't running 13.1 miles flat out all the way and are in more control, I do think a steady start is a good idea for the first 5km (20-21minutes) and then presuming ok, gradually picking up, with the target 83-85.

Cortisone certainly should be a very last resort and good treatment should mean you won't need it.

05/02/2013 at 16:25
Steve Marathon Coach wrote (see)

 Normally, I do feel it is an advantage to have a fast half marathon in the build up, and if not 100%, at least 95%.

Totally agree
05/02/2013 at 16:53

First hard interval session for a couple of weeks today due to the couple of days missed last week.

Really enjoyed the session - 6 x 1 mile with 2 minute recoveries - It was a bit windy which made it a bit challenging in parts! As I've said before on here, mile reps are one of my favorite sessions, so usually look forward to this type of session.

Felt really controlled with the pace, comfortable, and if anything the reps felt easier as I got closer to the end! 

My foot felt good today, no problems at all during the hard running.

I got through 10 miles in total - where I use for mile reps is about 1.75 miles away so it makes a good warm up and cool down, but makes the total run a bit longer than the 9 miles scheduled. I generally feel I need a good 1.5 miles to warm up properly before intervals so works well.

Splits for today - 5.53, 5.53, 5.55, 5.53, 5.50, 5.57

05/02/2013 at 22:25

Excellent session AW  really consistent reps  in windy conditions and great that foot felt good.

I did 10 x 800 off approx a minute recovery and wasn't pleased with it - average 2:57 and only got it down to that with a 2:46 last rep - having trained reasonably well for a few months now would have hoped to have been quite a bit quicker on my fourth to 9th reps instead of being a lot, lot slower than my average marathon PB pace!

05/02/2013 at 22:56

Tasty splits on your mile reps AW espeically after your 10k race on Saturday. What's the race plan for Wokingham on Sunday?

10 x 800 reps is a tough session Steve off 1 minute recovery. What's your weekly mileage up to at the moment? Still a good last rep time.

Went to the track tonight for the first time this year to do 15 x 400 reps. Felt good and av lap times were 1.22  - 1.23. Ran my 10th rep with a group training there and pushed it a bit more in 1.17 which made the last 5 reps a bit tougher!

06/02/2013 at 07:16

Nice sessions Steve and KR. I think I find 400's the toughest reps session out of the lot, I really wasn't looking forward to the 20 x 400 I had a couple of weeks ago. I think its just the sheer volume!?

I will see how I feel on Sunday over the first couple of miles in the half and take it from there, my PB is 1.22.27 so a first target for my is to run sub 1.22. This would also qualify me to get to the front of the pack (but behind the elites obviously) in Paris which would be nice!

But if I don't feel great I'm not going to push it, at the end of the day its just a training run for Paris.

Edited: 06/02/2013 at 07:18
06/02/2013 at 10:08

AW just a word of reassurance, This time last year I pinged my psoas and missed the half in build up (wokingham) and it didn't make any difference so don't worry.  Nice set of mile reps, they are my torture of choice tomorrow!

Steve, nice set of 800s, the way you set them isn't exactly the standard and I forgot how hard they are with only 200 recovery, I ran them last thursday in 2:33 - 2:39, the pacing would of been closer except I lost concentration on the 2:39 rep, almost pushe don and did 12 though! glad I didn't as calves and quads complained loads on the cool down.  Also ran the 2000m yesterday all in a gnats wisker of 7's so training so far is good. 


06/02/2013 at 10:53

Hi Choisty - good to hear from you. - you are in great shape judging by the 800s and 2000-s. I was quite a bit slower than when I last did  session and even last year when wasn't as fit and was well down on runners I was with or ahead in 10k on Sunda, so hopefully just a  bad one-off.

However, agree the session I do where i'm getting a minute recovery is much harder than the traditional Yasso 800s.

KR, I've been doing 60-65 a week over last month but came down for 10k and intend going up to 70 plus this week.

AW - okay the aim is to break 82 all being well but still would like to see if you can run a controlled first 5k in 20, which means a 62 last 10.

06/02/2013 at 11:32
Hi Choisty, thanks for that. I know the half is just part of the process rather than the end goal so won't be taking any chances. It sounds like your in great shape and running well. What's you goal race and target?

Sounds good Steve, so first 3 miles in about 6.25's and then if all good pushing on to 6.10's. Does that sound about right?

Is it just recovery time needed if I go 100% the reason to hold back a little, so it doesn't detract from next weeks training, or is there something else? Just wondering as if its a perfect day I think I may have it in me to go close to or just under 1.20? I will obviously keep to the guidelines you set out for this one though.
06/02/2013 at 13:08

Sounds like still responding, keep up the good work even if it feels better.

06/02/2013 at 13:26

Steve, yep I feel in great shape, despite 96 miles last week!!! and your 800s are not just hard but evil...but they work

AW, the plan is to break 2:40 at VLM, things seem to be slotting into place nicely to hit it too, planning a tester at Bramley 20 to see what is reasnoble.  I hope the foot continues to improve

06/02/2013 at 20:52
Nice comfortable 10 miler earlier today. Finished with an average pace of about 7.50 a mile.

I have to say I'm feeling really good about my fitness, my ability to get tough quality sessions like yesterday done well and then following that up with a longish run today which felt really comfortable is encouraging. When I think back to previous marathons it was always a big struggle to get the session after a big reps session done!!

My foot still much the same, which in a way is a good thing as its not getting worse!!
06/02/2013 at 23:22

Very good you are recovering well.It's a really good sign and relatively easy to do good sessions but doing them repeatedly is a better sign of fitness.

 I struggled a bit today but did get the miles in - watched a schools cross-country at Parliament Hill then ran to where I left bike and first 9 not too bad in company at 7:55s but once on own struggled and last 6 were about 9:15s. Worst bit was cycling home in wet kit in sleet into biting wind and lost all feeling in hands and feet and though only 5k felt like an age.

07/02/2013 at 12:39

Yes it's a good sign as you worked it really hard in the last 2 days. 

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