RW Forum 5 - Sub 4

Lee Clark 70 with Emmy

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M...eldy    pirate
29/12/2013 at 12:45

and we have another winner ...

Well done Lee and another runner up in this category Stewart C also looking for the sub 4

29/12/2013 at 12:55

Hi Lee and Stewart! Well done on getting through!

Lee - Just to make ourselves at home - can you tell me a little of your background/ previous PBs etc. Also what race have you lined up?

29/12/2013 at 13:14

Congratulations lee it is going to be fun following your journey

29/12/2013 at 13:18

Stewart - although this is Lee's prize - I'm happy to help others as much as I can!

Pull up a chair and get comfy!

29/12/2013 at 14:20

And there was me thinking we were supposed to be doing less sitting down

Well done Lee! (and Stewart too )

M...eldy    pirate
29/12/2013 at 14:21

Have we lost Lee already?

29/12/2013 at 14:31

Maybe he saw who was coaching him and ran off to hid?

I guess this is a good time to post my motto for this spring...


29/12/2013 at 14:53

Nice pic and I agree whole heartily, I would imagine he is out on a long run, I got mine done early, 18 miles with 300meters of elevation, the legs are a little tired now, 65 miles for the week, rest day tomorrow

29/12/2013 at 14:55

*pops in to say hello*

Given I'm still striving for that ever elusive sub 4 I may pop in from time to time to see what I can pick up

29/12/2013 at 15:02

Stewart - this is the t-shirt that we have on the Paris thread for sub 4 training. We're trying to persuade one of the speedsters to dress up as a grim reaper to be our motivator!

Kaz - I know that you'll get to the sub 4 as well. You've got a solid base of endurance to build on and i've seen you fly around the lake!

Stewart - how did your LSR go? Did I see correctly that you're following P&D marathon plan? What race are you aiming for? Before my interrogation ends... do you live somewhere with 300m of elevation or was that just luck?

I live in Belgium and struggle with motorway bridges

29/12/2013 at 18:44

Couldn't remember when this was announced and I am both greatly surprised and delighted to be selected. 

I am all signed up for the VLM on April 13th. I failed to get a ballot place but no one at East Grinstead Athletics club wanted the place so I got it by default.

I only joined this year to help add a point or two in the Southern League Div 3 meets. I was a member before I left school which was back in 1986. A very long time ago.

I only started back running in 2008 when I signed up for a 10k and with little training managed to get under the hour mark. Since then I have run a few 10ks and Half Marathons and in 2011 ran my first and only Marathon (Brighton). I say ran, but I hit the wall at mile 19 and walked most of the last 6-7 miles.

My PBs are:-

10k = 46:56 (2012)

HM = 1hr45:02 (2013)

M = 4:27:05 (2011)

The reason for applying for a mentor was because I have hit a plateau. My last 4 10ks are all within 30 seconds of each other and my last 4 HMs (bar one) are all within 30 seconds of each other. This years PB  was only 2 seconds quicker than my last PB.

I only found out I had a place in the VLM 2 weeks ago and my running had been sporadic since my HM in October. I was looking for a recommended plan to follow and as E mmy knows (as she recommended it) I am using Shades Novice 2 plan.

The plan itself is an 18 week plan so I have followed week 1 (missed one 5 mile run due to Christmas) which ended with a 10 mile long run yesterday. I have then skipped weeks 2 and 3 and will begin with week 4 tomorrow.The Saturday long run should be a 16 miler. I am still trying to decide whether to cut that to 14 but I am going to miss a long run on 18th January. 

So how does this mentor thing work? Do you need to know more about what I plan? Nearer the time I will have questions about how I should be pacing the actual marathon as I failed so badly last time. For now I guess I should be looking at sports drinks and gels for my long runs.

29/12/2013 at 19:31

Emmy, the LSR was quite tough given the climb, and the underfoot conditions on the trail were a bit wet and sticky in places.

I'm following P&D 55-70 18 week schedule I think that was the fourth week completed, as I said in my pitch I may cut back the volume if it proves too much.

I'm doing lochaber marathon again this spring on the 6th April, it was my first one and i ran it too hard given my fitness, the last 10 miles where painful, finishing time of 4:28:xx, smashed that at Baxters by 26 minutes and it was a lot harder course.

I live up in inverness in the highlands of Scotland, depending on how you look at it luckily I don't have very far to find a hill and finding a completely flat route is possible but a little uninspiring, you must find it difficult training for races that have hills in them.

just so you are aware my PB's are





Lee, your 10k and HM times are considerably quicker than mine, looks like you'll need to work on building some endurance you have the speed already to obtain a sub 4 time.

29/12/2013 at 20:40

Just popped in to say congrats and best of luck toyou both.

From your HM and 10k times, with a decent lot of training under your belt, you should be able to do it.

Emmy will get you there I am sure.

Stewart C - you are not far off either.I must admit to not being a great fan of P&D but each to their own. I am sure you will pick up a few tips from those on here to creep under the 4 hours.

And Emmy really impressed with you for putting yourself forward as a mentor knowing how much time you spend racing all round the world. I lurk on the Paris thread having run it last year and occassionaly meet up with a few on the local parkrun. I will be doing London this year.

I will pop in every so ofton to see how you are all getting on.

Best of luck.

29/12/2013 at 21:08

Evening all! 

Lee - thanks for replying and reposting the thread. The plan for mentoring is we discuss your weeks training, I try to advise on nutrition, pacing, general advice and we aim to get you under sub 4 come April! From your PB it looks positive for a decent sub 4 - we just need to build the endurance into your plans.

Ever week it would be good to know: what runs you're planning, what pace and then after your workouts - report it back here (this is optional but would be good to help us track and provide feedback).



What it would be good to know is: do you have any half maras planned before VLM?

29/12/2013 at 21:14

Part #2

This mentoring thing is completely what you make of it. I promise to reply, give honest advice and support you along the journey. I can only give back what you put in so its a good partnership!

Stewart -I'm mightily impressed with your times. Inverness is a beautiful part of the world. A friend is running devil of the highlands in the summer. I think your plan to start off and reassess is a good one. What are your review times? Do you have any halfs planned? Do you do any park runs?

Carl - thank you for popping on! I wanted to give back and through the last year the sub 4 journey has been one I've followed so can closely relate!

29/12/2013 at 21:29

Emmy - Cool, that is pretty much what I expected. As soon as I get back on my main PC I will look at this weeks' planned runs and post them. I will also summarise last weeks.

I am most likely going to run the Tunbridge Wells Half on March 2nd. I did this one in the same year I ran the Brighton Marathon. It has one hell of a hill in it so I doubt I'll get a PB but expect to beat what was then a PB of 1hr48:50.

I chose the Shades training plan as it seems to fit with my life (work and kids). It includes 4 runs a week with an option for a fifth (not likely). Mon/Tue/Wed/Sat.

Two of the midweek runs are easy or recovery while the other is usually a tempo or a longish run finishing at Marathon pace. I also like the number of long runs included. The longest is 22 miles which was also the in my previous Marathon plan. It is also the furthest I have ever run without walking.

29/12/2013 at 21:35

That's great. Regardless of the hill it'll be a good idea to get an idea of your fitness. One of the important things is practising race day and this includes nutrition and pacing.

Shades plan is great as it encompasses all of the major parts of training. Do you have a garmin/ heart rate monitor so we can see/track your stats? 

29/12/2013 at 22:23

I very much have a Garmin. I upload everything to Garmin Connect and to SportTracks. I do have a heart rate monitor but rely on pace really. The HR is a nice to have to add to all of those stats. I am a bit of a Statto to be honest.

I got my pacings for the plan from Shades as well. I'll pop those on this thread too.

All of the pacings have been worked out based on what I should be able to run the Marathon in. According to my 10k and HM PBs, I should be able to do it in 3hrs45.

29/12/2013 at 22:29

Good to know theres a fellow stat freak amongst us! If you can PM me your garmin connect I can stalk you (unless you're willing to post them on here).

 Agree that the time indicates between 3.45-3.50 but we'll have better indications once you have done some longer runs to see how your endurance builds. For the longest time - my times were the opposite of yours. I had the endurance but not the speed so I could run sub 4 times in a marathon but struggle with 5/10/21k's! 

29/12/2013 at 23:52

PM'd the GC stuff.

So according to my 10k and HM PBs as well as a potential target of 3hrs45 in the VLM Marathon, my paces for the Shades plan are as follows:-

Training paces:-       Easy runs 8:50 to 9:20 min/miles 5:29 to 5:47 min/km Long runs 9:20 to 10:20 min/miles 5:47 to 6:25 min/km Tempo runs 7:30 to 7:50 4:39 to 4:52 min/km Marathon Pace 8:30 min/mile     5:16 min/km Recovery Pace 10:00 to 10:30 min/mile 6:12 to 6:31 min/km

I work in kms and have yet to be converted. I enjoy seeing the number of miles left to run rather than kms though.

Week1 of the plan should have been 

Mon - Easy 5 miles

Tue - Easy 6 miles

Wed - Tempo 5 miles

Sat - Long 10 miles

I didn't do the Easy 6 this week due to Xmas. The Tempo was disappointing as I only managed a 5:05 p/k (8:10 p/m) pace. Normally I run tempos easily within the desired pace. The Long run was run around 5:52 p/k pace. I found it pretty easy as normally I would run it at 5:30 p/k or faster. 

Running the longer runs at a slower pace is the bit I need to get my head around. It does make sense though. The one HM I failed at recently (2012) was a flat course in Bexhill that I had lined up for a PB. I had a good training build up and worked pretty hard. I even ran my last couple of long runs at 5:15 p/k pace. On the day I felt lethargic and not at all fresh. I crashed and burned and the last 2 or 3 km were really hard 5:20-5:30 p/k pace. I finished in 1hr48 and was devastated.


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