RW Forum Six - 3.30

Shaggy v Gazelle

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01/09/2012 at 21:25
Thanks for the good wishes everyone
01/09/2012 at 22:12

Gazelle - have a cracker tomorrow.

02/09/2012 at 06:10

Gazelle, you go for it, girl!!!  Can't wait to hear how it went.

My session was a bit random this morning, but no time to post now so I will update later.

Sending loads of positive vibes to Gazelle and anyone else racing today off the back of your quotes, FRTC.  Loved them!!  Can't quite visualise the TRX core exercise you described, though.  Do you have your hands in the TRX or your feet?  When you said wheel I thought you meant something similar to that one on the floor where you kneel and you hold a wheel with handles and then extend your arms away from your body and then bring it back in.  If that's what it is, ouch!  That's gotta hurt!! 

02/09/2012 at 09:57

Ok, back now.  I didn't want to disrupt Gazelle's positivity in case she checked the forum before setting off to her race 

So today's run was a bit of a set-back.  Out the door before 6am, feeling good.  Today was long run day, although only 7 miles for me at my stage.  Things felt like a real struggle pretty much from the start.  Massive humidity again, Garmin fogged up as soon as I got out the door.  I was batting through ok until I got to 4 miles and then it started to feel really hard.  I always know things are bad when I can't bear my iPod on as it starts to irritate me.  I had to take it off around this point.  

I heard the Garmin beep for 5 miles and saw how slowly I was going and I just knew I couldn't take another 20 mins of running.  So I walked the half mile back home, intending to go in and recover.  By the time I got back to our block, I felt like I could run again, but then remembered it would be at least 20 mins out in the heat and that reality check made me listen to how the past 5 miles had made me feel (like shit) so I parked that idea.  

Then I had a brainwave.  Our appartment block has a gym on the 4th floor with very nice treadmills - problem solved!  So off I went and did 3.2km at 10kph to secure my 7 mile target.  The irritating thing was I felt great on the treadmill, heartrate 142, could have kept going forever..............

Ultimately, I may well improve over my next few runs, but I am really not enjoying it one bit.  I think next summer I will stick to the treadmill and focus on spring racing which means I can start outside in Oct.  Whilst I will, of course, stick with it for now because I refuse to give up on my plans and will do whatever it takes, it has given me a very interesting insight into what it must feel like as a complete beginner or someone who just hates running.

On to more positive things, FRTC, get you and your sub-6m/m!!!  Wow, you must be really chuffed with that.  Great results after some really good, consistent training.  Maybe I could be like you one day.....  I also read that positivity article, love it.  I often find myself using imagery like that to get me through hard sessions, thinking about how this is one step on the way to achieving my target (it didn't work for me today, I know when I'm broken!!)  I think I'm going to surf that website to see if it has stuff on 6 pack.  I'm working hard on my exercises and my diet (still no alcohol , pizza, rubbish food etc), but I hate drastic weight loss as it's really bad for you and I refuse to go on one of those mega high protein regimes which I think is so artifical so I think this may take some time......

02/09/2012 at 15:15
I will read the forum later and catch up on what's been happening over the last 24hrs.
Today I was Shit, as in really bad I knew from mile 2 that today was not my day. I crossed the line in 1:40:49 according to my watch which I'm surprised at as I walked quite a few times. A full report to follow.
02/09/2012 at 16:52

Gazelle - we all have "not so good days" there will be a reason for it and it won`t be that "you are sh*t" put that race to bed and then carry on, these setbacks are what make us stronger people and we all have the up days and down days, so you are not alone. chin up.

SS- it sounds just like the weather is rubbish there and the only thing it must be good for is sunbathing, and who wants to do that all the time. as long as you have a plan then you can enjoy your training.

As for me I have decided that I cannot run marathons with my foot still in a bad way, I can run ok up to about 14-15 miles then it gets realy bad and starts to cause me massive gait issues and pain in my hips etc.
This does ultimatley mean that my autumn target at Abingdon will be another DNS for me, which after London`s DNS is another bitter pill to swallow  but I will not let the hard work that I have done coming back to some sort of fitness go to waste and will concentrate on some half marathons and some shorter distance races until I can get the surgery done.
I can also bike so plenty to keep me motivated and hopefully when I can run a marathon again then it will be all the more enjoyable affair for all the past disapointments of this season.

02/09/2012 at 16:53
Lots of hugs Gazelle. It's far from being shit in my books, 1:40 is a decent time but I know it's not what you were hoping for. You will get it next time, I'm sure.
Scuba Trooper    pirate
02/09/2012 at 17:41

Gazelee - as long as you're not injured then you live on to fight another day. Pick your self up dusty your self down and get beck to the training.

Speed Sheep - It will take a while for you to understand your current fitness and what is possible in the heat, maybe worth shifting to a HR based plan so pace is not such an issue. There is no rush to have a 6 pack, remeber your mileage will escalate over the next couple of months, if you  don't eat any more than now you will lose weight a quite a rate without trying.

Shaggy - Shame about the DNS but realistic and obtainable targets are so important. I wonder how much your HM pb will drop over the next few months.

Scuba Trooper    pirate
02/09/2012 at 17:45

My long run on saturday was 11 miles with 8 @7:35, turn out harder than I expected but finished it fine. Did 3.5 miles recovery today over the feilds and tracks in the Adi XT4's nice to try them out for the first time.

02/09/2012 at 22:04

Race Report:

What’s happening to me??? Such a bad day today, the lead up to the race was very good, had a little scare during the week when I read the course was very undulating but I got my head around this, ie if you go up a hill you must go down one. The warm up was great and the sun shone.

The start was fine and I looked at my watch to make sure I wasn't going off too fast to find that I was ok(I did think at the time that’s unusual as normally I have to slow down). Checked my watch again at mile 2 and just knew today was going to be bad, my legs were so heavy and I just felt like I had just ran a 20mile training run. The course was shaped like a lollypop, 4miles out, around the circle of the head then 4miles back along the same route. Splits as follows:

 7:09,7:18,7:02,7:30 (Lolly stick)                                                              7:56,7:47,8:05,8:04,7:43  (Lolly head)                                                                 8:22,8:06,7:58,7:23 (Lolly stick)

 I just seem to fall apart during any long run. I only have two weeks to get my head and body sorted before taper. So I have asked the boss to add in lots of MP miles to the schedule just so I can gain the confidence that I can run the marathon in 5 weeks, yikes. 

02/09/2012 at 22:26

FRTC The article on visualising was a good read thank you and your mile pb is sooooo good, have you entered Marathon talk's magic mile?

SS Boo hoo ref your outdoor run today but 100points to you for going on the treadmill to finish the session off, if you hadn't of finished I'm sure you would have been deflated all day so good on you.

Shaggy, sorry to hear that your foot is still causing you trouble. You will be back to marathons one day but in the meantime go and bag yourself some great 10k and half marathon pbs Have you decided to have surgery or not?

Brolish, cheers for the text it made me smile

ST Your run yesterday sounded good 8m@7:35, you are making me jealous....

03/09/2012 at 06:25

Oh Gazelle, I'm so sorry to hear it didn't go according to plan   Give yourself some time to be grizzly and take it all in, and then follow Shaggy's advice and use it positively.  The way I see it, all experience (good and bad) helps us along the way, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time.  Very rarely does a marathon training plan come off without a hitch, so do not panic!!  As Brolish says, 1:40 is still a great time, but I get it's not where you wanted to be.  At least you're not injured, you live to fight another day so get back out there when you're ready and park that race in the dustbin marked 'Races That Were Pants' (my December 2011 HM is already in there, it'll be glad of the company )

No early starts for me today, I enjoyed the luxury of a lie in until 7:30!  Spin class and S+C this evening.  I'm loving OH going to the gym too as I now have another 'exercise spy'.  I'm always on the look out for what PTs are making their clients do so I can improve my routine and yesterday OH came back having witnessed a variation on some TRX core work which I'm now going to incorporate 

Shaggy, I'm really sorry to hear that your foot is still causing you problems   I really hope you can get it sorted long term.  But great to hear you're focusing on the shorter stuff.  I am sure you will be bagging a few PBs in the months to come!  And at least training for HMs etc. gives your body a bit of a rest from the pounding it takes during full marathon training.

Brolish, good to see you survived your 'party weekend'   I hope you had fun!!

Scuba T, I've been thinking about heart rate stuff and I'm really not sure it would make any difference.  The reason being I am only running at what feels like easy pace, I don't think I could physically slow it any more, I'd be walking.  Looking at my Garmin HR graphs, I seem to be in the comfortable zone until 3-4 miles and then it escalates.  As an example, on one run the other night my average heart rate was: (1) 123; (2) 138; (3) 144: (4) 163; (5) 166; (6) 167.  If you take mile 5, my average of 166 was obtained running at 10:34 m/m and the highest it got during that mile was 177!!    I kid you not.  To say I was devastated by these stats is something of an understatement   Anyway, I'm just ticking off the runs at the moment and waiting for the winter.....

Nice run, btw!  And I'm glad the trainers rocked.  I think it will be a while before I get to try mine out.  I'm back in Nov for a couple of weeks so I will have to plan somewhere to test drive them!

Gazelle, that's exactly why I jumped on the treadmill.  I could feel myself slipping into grizzly mode and I needed those two extra miles to avoid it!!!  Silly, really, but that's running for you  

Scuba Trooper    pirate
03/09/2012 at 10:11

Gazelle - I think you have the answer to your performance in the post you made. You say you felt like the end of a 20 mile training run with heavy legs, and then that it is 5 weeks to the marathon and so 3 weeks to taper. You are at the peak of your mileage and unlike the last campaign you are pushing harder from a higher base line this is not the time for a PB at HM with no proper taper. Make sure you give yourself a chance to recover from the race and get back to the training and your be fine. Are the kids back to school this week? Maybe a chance to put your feet up and get in some recovery.

Speed Sheep - The HR training my be just right, your profile shows that you are suffering cardiac drift ie increase heart rate at a constant pace, as you train the drift will be delayed more and more as fitness increases. In the meantime the idea is to lower your pace and maintain the low heart rate, the problem for you is that in the heat that would mean walking so maybe give it a few more weeks before you try that.

03/09/2012 at 10:11

Hello everyone, I'm back.

Had a lovely weekend but a bit tiring.  Entertaining friends doesn't go very well with marathon training.  Had to fit all my running in between the drinking somehow...

Gazelle- Hope you're feeling a bit better today.  I know this must be terribly frustrating but you should take a lot of confidence from all the training and all races you've done, not just this one! Sometime things just don't come together on the day and there is nothing you can do about it.  Onwards and upwards

SSheep- it sounds like an absolute nightmare with the heat.  I think if I were you I would just stick with the TM until it cools down a bit.  I can't even begin to imagine running in those temperatures.  Hopefully it's only a few more weeks before it becomes more bearable.

FRTC and ST- great running as always!

I managed 17m on Saturday (slightly hangover) and 6m easy yesterday (slightly hangover).  Back on the wagon and looking forward to this week.  I have another track session on Tuesday (5 x 600 + 8 x 200) and a tempo run on Friday.  Last week really felt good so I hope it's onwards and upwards from now on.

03/09/2012 at 16:17

Gazelle, we all have bad days, can't run perfect everytime. Tons of factors affecting you, think back over the last week. Humid day, wrong diet in days before, too much mileage, not enough rest.. even the less obvious like under the weather with slight chest infection or cold.

Main thing - Ignore, dust yourself off, get back into it later this week after a bit of rest. Wed/ Thu?

Shaggy, sorry to hear you DNS again, but for time being best thing, plus you can still maintain your 10k/ half speed.

Brol, good week for you again. That speed session for Tuesday looks a good one, speed & endurance.

Scuba looks like you are in good nick for the 10mile & half coming up, nice tempo run & pace. How you finding the program?

Speed Sheep, full marks for you going back to treadmill.
yes, TRX roll out is their version of the one with the wheel & handles. TRX behind you, body slightly leaning forward, arms in front of you holding straps then gradually lift arms up and lean body more so you are stretching core. You can do it on knees or standing. Remember, no pain no gain. This one hurts - but good for Mission 6 pack. More protein would help, changing your diet. I eat some junk but also lots of eggs, chicken & fish, especially post workouts. Are you a full vegie - do you eat fish?

Oh, my second ever sub 6 minute mile?
Was just trying to see it wasn't a fluke when I did a 5m55s mile a month ago, after TR24. Doing 5m52s means it wasn't - 2 speed sessions a week helping? Running say 6:30ish for a mile or two seems much easier and doesn't make me panic so much now that I will crash out.

I am doing Marathon Talk Mile. Even put an event on list for local area.

Did 20 miles in ~3hrs yesterday with pal doing his first marathon, 9 miles before club, then club 11 mile long run with tractor shoes on. Comfortable, plus the trail sections stop you over doing the speed so building up nicely, less chance of injury too.

Multi terrain race tomorrow approx 4 mile, with our tractor shoes.. then doing Hoylake 10k road race on

Sunday. This week mostly a kick back therefore to conserve energy around these.

03/09/2012 at 16:18

Shaggy- sorry, I xposted before and missed your post as a result.  So sorry to hear it's not going to happen for you this time- blooming injuries! It does sound however like the only sensible option.  When do you expect to have the op done and how long for recovery? Very impressed with the positive attitude, as always.

03/09/2012 at 16:19

FRTC- good luck tomorrow!

04/09/2012 at 09:44

Morning all,

Thanks for all your support over the last few days, funny how we love to run then we get all emotional when things don't go our way.

I did a 3mile recovery run(9:30mm+) last night, my breathing and quads were very heavy after the first mile so I ran on feel for the remainder of the run, splits are: 9:26, 9:43,9:36. Today is a rest day then positive marathon training for 5 weeks starts on Wednesday. Kids went back to school today so I should be able to have a nice routine and run as soon as I have dropped them off, thinking about it, the last 6 weeks of running hasn't flowed like normal as I have had to juggle a lot of the sessions and times around, oh how I love routine

Brolish, I'm glad you had a good weekend, it's always nice to let your hair down and have some fun. Good Luck tonight on your speed session have you done this one before? Are you nervous or excited?

FRTC, fair play to you for organising the Marathon talk mile, hopefully you will have a good turn out for the event. What time will you be aiming for? I'm betting 5min 40 secs Good luck with your race tonight, go show them how its done.

ST, SS and Juggler How has your training been over the last few days?

Take care all,



04/09/2012 at 09:57

Gazelle- glad to hear you will be able to get back to your routine, I'm sure things will go well for you and it was just a little blip! Are you doing any more races before the main event?  And what is the date of the main event again, I need to put it in my calendar!

I don't think I've ever done 200m intervals... maybe once with the club.  I'm always nervous before going to the track but trying to embrace it.  I always feel great afterwards and very proud of myself if I manage to hit the paces! These short intervals are different from what I'm used to but the nice thing about them is that you never suffer for too long.

I have a half marathon coming up next weekend...

04/09/2012 at 14:35

Brol, Gazelle is doing Chester mara on October 6th. So is Mike too! I will be there supporting and take some photos. Maybe even post an update.

Paces? you have paces? So thats where I've been going wrong.

I don't think I've ever done 200metres either, lots of fartleks, hill sprints and similar though. Guess the boss is trying to develop your speed.

what pace does he have you doing? Good luck with your session.

 I'm currently doing very little work and doing PMA watching great races, red mist is up 5 hours in advance. hehe.

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