RW Forum Six - 3.30

Shaggy v Gazelle

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04/09/2012 at 15:31

Hello all!  A quiet day for me today, I did a training session yesterday during which I felt exhausted and didn't manage half of what I set out to do.  But I still managed to kick some butt during spin class.  How does that work???!  Anyway, I thought I'd have a rest day today and get in some quality recovery.

Also, I've finally bitten the bullet and booked an appointment with the physio.  I've been trying to stretch my calf out loads and have really been hoping the pain would just go away by itself, but this morning when I got up it hurt when walking around for the first time   I can't ignore that there is something going on that won't sort itself out with simple stretching.  Luckily, he had a slot tomorrow lunchtime so I will  see what he says and report back.  

Gazelle, good to hear you're feeling more positive!  It's always difficult adjusting to when something doesn't go according to plan.  Get back on with the training, get back into your routine and hopefully it will all settle back into place.

FRTC, am looking forward to hearing how tonight's run goes!  I am also looking forward to testing out the new core move at the gym tomorrow.  I think I saw a guy doing that yesterday, he wasn't doing very well.....  I am upping my protein anyway, but no I don't eat fish.

Scuba, that's really interesting about cardiac drift.  I looked it up on the net and found loads of great articles and also a tri forum in Florida where one guy had the same as me.  I didn't post my split times for the 6 miles, but it was amazing to see that my effort level actually went down as my heart rate went up!!  Also, the articles I read said the effects were most noticable after around 25 mins, which correlates with my experiences over miles 4-6, and also that it is massively exacerbated by heat and dehydration.  So, I know what it is, I just have to get used to it.  Mind you, I guess this all depends on what the physio says 

Brolish, how did the 200s go?  I like running on the track sometimes, it's very easy just to zone out and get on with the job.  Mind you, I've never done really short efforts like that.  I wonder what sort of speeds you will register?  Interesting!

So tomorrow my plan is an 8 mile treadmill run with 4 miles at HMP.  Assuming the physio says I'm good to go, I will take 12kph (8 m/m) as HMP as that seemed to work fine the other day and I'm not trying to overload myself right now.  I'm not sure if I'm up to doing the 4 miles in one go just yet as I've really not done sufficient chunks of pace yet, but I will play it by ear and see how I feel.  The good thing about all this cardiac drift malarky and feeling like shit outside means that I can be tougher with myself when I'm inside as now I really do know what it feels like when it feels REALLY bad!!!

04/09/2012 at 16:04

FRTC- lol re paces.  Yes, the idea with shorter intervals is to get me to the point when longer intervals @ around my 10k pace don't feel ridiculously hard so that I can do more of them.

SSheep- oh no, hope the leg is ok.  Good luck with the tempo tomorrow in a nicely air conditioned gym!

I am supposed to do 600s @ 6:30mm pace so around 2m27s with 2min recoveries and try to keep them consistent.  200s are to be done in 48s but I am allowed to go faster if I can. Will report back.

04/09/2012 at 18:56

Hi again athletes

Sounds like everyone is experiencing mixtures of highs and lows at the moment!!

FRTC good luck for the run tonight! Lots of PMA heading your way!

Brolish, clearly you are being pushed on the speed front. that should set you up nicely for the weeks ahead!

Gazelle! Sorry to hear about the weekend's run. Sounds rather like my half from a few weeks ago. Well, these things happen. and glad to see you are already looking forward to getting into more of a routine. Does sound tho' from your recovery run update, as if you were just a bit too tired. It happens to the best of us sometimes!!!

shaggy sorry to hear about the DNS. Hope that you can enjoy some good H/Ms in the meantime.

SSheep, really hope the leg is okay. Your other updates have mostly been really positive and sounds like your training is really coming along. Good luck with physio tomorrow.

ST, I see you had a good long run at the weekend. did mine this morning (Course starts on Thursday, so possibly my last mid-week long run for a while.) 11 miles at just over 7:35, so we must be running about the same pace. Except that my course was pretty flat, it's one of the joys of running along the seafront!

Back yesterday from a very relaxed weekend away. Had a great time, including some very gentle bike rides with Mrs J. Only downside is that Mrs J has been unwell since we got back. Missed her first day at school in a very long time. Shame it was first day of term. But she seems to be picking up now.

Waves to all

05/09/2012 at 09:16

Welcome back Juggler.  Sounds like you had a nice time away.  Hope Mrs J is better.

FRTC- how did it go yesterday?  I'm sure you rocked!

My speed session went well last night.  Managed all 600s in very consistent 2:18-2:20 and 200s in 45s-40s with the last two being the fastest.  I'm beggining to enjoy these track sessions in a strange way....

13m @ 8:46 done this morning on the way to work.  It felt ok but I'm falling asleep again.

05/09/2012 at 12:00

Hehe. I always rock. positive thinking.

It was a tough course, approx 350ft of hills, 2 laps, 175ft on each, but started with a lap of a field, masses of mole hills... then out into park/ countryside.. very hard work going up and down, avoiding tree branches, rocks, stumps,  then onto stone, uneven surfaces, and that was before you hit the hill which was sharp rocks, really had to place your feet.

I didn't look at my garmin once. Heard it beep, but just did it on feel, which as I tell Mrs FRC was at the pointy end of the stick pace wise.. painful, hard, almost flat out but not quite at your limit - or was it?. Started off way too fast I thought, I could see some of our really good club runners 2-3 people ahead even at mid way point. At a couple of points, sheer rock and you had to hurdle or pull yourself up. None of this was flat, but that hill was an absolute lung buster... then straight down the other side, rocks, trail, and onto road briefly, I wondered why some sprinted ahead.. a stile, so queuing. A few just climbed over, would have gained vital seconds. Cheered on by various people at club, coaches etc, even my pal Ritchie shouting "Come on FRC, you're doing fantastic!" I think I was well ahead of where they expected. Oh, and that was just lap 1.

More of the same lap 2, man that hill felt really tough second time. I wouldn't let anyone pass me though. Just managed to get a bit of breather or needed in mile 3 - think everyone did.. onto the road again, towards stile and sprinted to stay clear. 2-3 people just ahead, within my sights now. I focussed on them. Those Adidas shoes are very grippy, any little rises, I gained on them. 20 ft became 10... then 5ft. Another earth muddy section rose up and I got past them, just kept going.  They were NOT getting past me. I did mentally say "Fast Feet, Fast Arms, Shoes" at one point... then into finishing field and 2 more just ahead. Full sprint, absolutely flat out, I went past them, cheers from running club people.

Finished in 33:46 for 4.7 miles,  splits were good considering the course was so hard. 7:11 / 7:34/ 7:04 / 7:40 /4:17. 

Brol, glad the intervals went well, we had faith in you!

Juggler, nice to see all is well

More later. Waves to Athletes.


05/09/2012 at 13:28

FRTC- sounds like a challenging race.  Rocking as always, well done!

SSheep- hope the tempo goes well today.

Gazelle- what are you up to this week?

05/09/2012 at 13:52

Wow, what a run FRTC, that sounds amazing!  I think those shoes are clearly getting great use!  Great effort.

Brolish, you are doing really well!  I'm so glad the track is becoming your friend   Mixing up the training is bound to help lots so keep enjoying it.

Juggler, I hope Mrs J is on the mend.  Not a nice way to end a weekend away .

So, the physio.  Well, he was very encouraging and he doesn't think it is the same as last time which fits with the symptoms I've been having i.e. similar but not exactly the same.  He thinks is is a strain/tear of the soleus, right at the point it meets the gastroc.  There is clearly something biomechanical going on which is making me vulnerable to calf issues on my right leg so I'm seeing the ortho on Sunday to see what he thinks and the physio's going to come into the consult to see what's going on first hand which I'm really pleased about.  I've been running with orthotics for the past couple of years and, of course, I was due a check up at the beginning of the year but it just got forgotten   It may be that I need new orthotics, or whatever it was they needed to correct has been corrected and they are now causing other issues.  Either way, Sunday will be helpful.

In the mean time, he's taped me up again (no smurf blue this time, boring beige), I've got to ice and then I have to go for a 30 min run on Friday and report back.  No speedwork for the time being, just time on feet.  We had a really good chat about my plans for next year and we are both of the opinion that I should not run Dubai but concentrate on London instead.  My heart wants to go for both, but my head realises I may well jeopardise both if I try.  London has to be my priority as I cannot defer again (and I want to do the Two Oceans in 2014 ) so I will just have to make the most of my GFA start and hope I can follow in Gazelle's footsteps and make 3:30.  Mind you, I will be happy with anything under 3:45 at this rate as that will be a PB.  Actually, scrap that, just to get on the start line will make me happy!!!!

Some good news, I got my essay back today and amazingly it went really well so I am super relieved !! Just one little exam to go..........

05/09/2012 at 16:40

Afternoon All,

What a lovely sunny day it is  I went for a 5mile easy run today after yesterdays rest day and I'm pleased to say I'm back, no aching legs ect. I did the first and fifth mile on road and the rest off road, I didn't plan it that way, I saw a walking sign and decided to follow it. I just ran on feel, stats: 9:07, 8:54, 8:57, 8:38, 8:21  Hopefully I can start to put more mileage and mp runs in over the next few weeks. I need to wait for "The Boss" to tell me what to do for the rest of the week

Brolish well done on your track session, looks like you did them all faster than the suggested times, hopefully you will see massive improvements on your half at the weekend. Do you think that your mind set has changed which is why you are excelling at the speed sessions? Hope you stayed awake this afternoon after your run today, you are flying at the moment. What day is your half on?

Juggler glad you had a great weekend with Mrs J, I hope she is feeling well again. You're training pace looks very good with 11@7:35mm. Good luck with your course.

FRTC I love your red mist quotes and how positive you are when it comes to running, I think your positive attitude is rubbing off on me so keep it coming. Such a great race and race report as always, it will be interesting to see what times you get in road races.

SS Glad you were able to see the physio so quickly, lets hope it is the orthotics that need changing and that all will be ok again. In the meantime can you still do your spin class? and of course your core work?  I'm glad you have decided to just do one marathon, I think if you can cope with high mileage(Brolish) then two marathons in a year is fine but if not just the one a year. Marathon training does drain your body more than you think, I'm not sure how ultra runners cope! Congratulations on your essay yippee.

Hopefully will have the rest of this weeks training tonight so I will let you know, I have asked for long runs and mp runs yikes!!!!!!!!


05/09/2012 at 16:58

SSheep- great news on the essay front- whoop whoop! Sounds like a good idea to have a look at the orthotics with the physio, hopefully it works.  At least it's not the same issue... I think you're right to concentrate on London.  You can do Dubai some other time and it will give you some time to sort out your leg and takes the pressure off of trying to train in the heat.

Gazelle- yey, you're sounding positive again.  Hope you get all the LSRs and MP runs you asked for and more (you might regret having asked for

05/09/2012 at 17:42

Gazelle, I have a road race Sunday! 10k. Really flat too. Aiming for sub 42 again.

I have ordered some racing flats, maybe give them a few half mile intervals to try on Saturday with club peeps.

Oh, I have a good article for you, about being positive.. will post.

Forgot Brol was doing a half at the weekend. Oh exciting.

Speed Sheep, doh. sorry to hear things not 100% and Dubai off now. I much prefer a slower long term buildup though, aim for a half perhaps after 10k and really build carefully for April?

Juggler missed the 11@7:35.

Speed strength tonight for me, then something tomorrow TBA.. maybe 10@ MP to help Mike, though I might have another 4 with Mrs FRC after to do. Then rest mostly till Sunday.

06/09/2012 at 06:26

Gazelle, great to hear you're feeling back to your usual self   Fantastic!!  Yes, I can still do spin, although I have to be careful as I get pain when I stand up on the bike (soleus is engaged in bent knee exercise, thus when it is straightened is when the pain will occur) but it's only small amounts and it was a lot less in last night's class.  So core and spin is cool, I will do a 30 min run tomorrow and see how it goes.

Brolish, I've switched my thinking round to using Dubai as a training run for Two Oceans in 2014   And also, that means I can enter the 10k and either race it or run with OH and his friend for moral support, which would be a really nice thing to do.

FRTC, this weekend's looking exciting for forum runners!  I hope the racing flats help 

Nothing planned for me today, I've got a packed schedule of being a lady who lunches and then dines so I've no idea whether I'll be able to make it to the gym as I've also got some revision to get on with 

06/09/2012 at 09:41

Sorry everyone, I meant next weekend for my half, not this coming one.  It's on 16th September (next Sunday). I would really like to end up with something starting with 1h36x.

SSheep- I like the idea of treating Dubai next year as a training run for the Two Oceans.  I might be tempted to join you! Enjoy all the launching today- no alcohol involved still?

FRTC- exciting stuff about this Sunday's race.  I think however that 42min might be a bit of a soft target judging by all the 5mm you've been knocking out. How about under 40min?

Gazelle- so what's the plan for the rest of the week?  Did you get what you wanted?


06/09/2012 at 14:34

Afternoon, another good run for me today, 6mile easy, the further I went the quicker I got so I had to rein myself in a bit on the last two miles, splits are: 9:09, 8:48, 8:23, 8:23, 8:33, 8:44.. I have a 12mile progressive run tomorrow 3mile warm up, 3@7:45, 3@7:35, 3@7:25 I'm looking forward to it If all feels ok I will be doing a 20miler on Sunday, it's seems so long ago that I ran that far.

FRTC I'm with Brolish sub 42????? Not that we want to put you under pressure or anything, what about 41:30 or under??? What time does the race start on Sunday? Looking forward to the Positive article 

SS it sounds hard being a lady of leisure 

Brolish, Double and triple check the date of your race, we wouldn't want you to turn up on the wrong date lol. Keep thinking positive and I'm sure you will smash your target.

06/09/2012 at 15:58

Okay, I am looking at mid 41s. I just squeezed sub 42 last time by 3 seconds, 41:57 on June 10th. creepy. thats exactly 3 months on, 12 weeks. this weekend.. Sept 9th.

Assuming conditions are good, 41:30-42:30 should be do-able. I usually think of an A, B & C targets, (although for the 10 miler it ended up a double A by the end)

Positive thinking article here ,

Fighting Talk: Find Your Mantra

Convince yourself you’re invincible and you’ll be clocking PBs like nobody’s business.. (Gazelle & Brol! )

it was in a runners world post a few weeks ago, but has some good sections. and also related to the whole runners world DBS phrase that I don't like. how to convince yourself mentually.

Gazelle, sounds like you're getting back into it, just take it careful.

07/09/2012 at 09:28

Gazelle- wow your progressive run looks tough! I'm sure you'll nail it.

I had a very good run this morning.  Out of the door before 6am.  Was supposed to do the usual 3m warm up + 1m@ MP and then 5x (1.25m@ 7:25-7:35/ 0.25m @ easy) +cd.  It added up to 13m.

1.25m reps were 7:25, 7:20, 7:18, 7:16, 7:13.  Whoop whoop! It atually felt more comfortable with each rep (strangely) and I wasn't completely knackered by the end.  I also borrowed Mr B's garmin which is almost brand new and I could hear it beeping which helped.  Not sure he's getting it back! I'm excited about the half next week.

Happy Friday!


07/09/2012 at 11:35

Brolish woop woop Practice makes perfect what a great session you have had and a great couple of weeks worth of running, we are all excited about your half, just don't go off like a bat out of hell..... Nice new watch you have lol.

The stats on my watch make great reading if only my mind was in the same place I stopped just before 6 miles and was asking myself was it worth all this effort, I even spoke to Hubby the other day and I was suggesting not doing the marathon!!! Anyway I zipped up my lady suit and got on with the run. Not sure why I have these moments whilst halfway through a session, when I was training for London I had it in my head from day one that I would hit 3:30 I told everyone one I met that I was going to finish under 3:30, this time I just don't know what to aim for. I need to get it in my head that I'm not going to knock big chunks of time off my races from now on, I think that was my problem last Sunday, after the first mile realising that I was way off pace so I basically jacked it in.

Anyway back onto today I finished the 12miles in 1:33, if I had carried on for one more mile and gone faster in the first mile I would of beaten last Sunday's race time Splits were, warm up then 7:44, 7:43, 7:40, 7:32, 7;34, 7:34, 7:23, 7:22, 7:22     I think marathon target needs to be about 3:23 which is 7:45mm and will be a 6minute pb. What do you think?? I think 7:55mm and under would be great for all 26.2miles. Omg imagine me when I'm tapering!!!

Hope you run went ok today SS. Good luck to FRTC for your 10k at the weekend I can't wait for the results. Hope everyone else is ok and having good runs.

P.s Sorry that I rambled on above.....

07/09/2012 at 11:50

((Gazelle)))- great splits.

I think someone needs a bit of pep talk! You can't get one race get to you so much.  Try to remember why you love running so much and how you would feel if you COULDN'T run for reasons out of your control, like being injured.  We all have crappy races and you had yours- better now than when it comes to the main event.  I think 3:20-3:25 would be a great target and judging by your splits above and other race times you should be very much capable of getting close to 3:20.  I wish I had your speed!!!  You've been doing brilliantly and you keep on improving which is the main thing.  You are going to run the marathon even if I have to go over there and drag you myself.  And you will do amazingly as always.

07/09/2012 at 13:25

Gazelle, sounds like a much better run for you. and dont worry about Ranting. All fine here, rant away. It helps me tons too.

Your little internal discussion about October marathon, chester, sounds a lot like what I was thinking in July, thunder run time. What was my motivation to do another. Next time, for me, there will be, 3:20 or even 3:15. You've got to really want it.

Sounds like you're getting there now, 3:25 and under is a good target.  Maybe 3:25/ 3:23/ 3:21 as C/B/A targets. Hmm.. reverse psychology, CBA means something positive here

Was the article any help for motivation? Sam was the coach on the other 3:30 thread, the asics one for London marathon.

Brol, good run by you. I read the 1.25m reps as being in 7.25. and was prepared to be impressed .. for a few seconds. See we have so much faith in you.

Nice run for me last night, helping 2 club pals with a MP run on road. 3 @ 8-8.30 warmup, 9 @ 7:45-8:00, and last mile @ 6.55 when they let me kick which I always do. Can't help it, its nice to run fast. Whole run felt really easy to me. Weird. Wouldn't have heard me say that 3 months ago.

Resting today, still unsure on whether to do circuit tomorrow, and then maybe do half of the interval session (half miles tomorrow) to test out the newly arrived racing flats. Maybe ditch the circuit and have a long snooze?

New shoes are so light! Lighter than Adizeros. 170-180g? My normal Sauconys are 320g. I may take off if not careful.

 Good weekend Athletes, looks like a hot one, maybe Brol is racing?

07/09/2012 at 22:37

Thanks for the pep talk Brolish and FRTC, I think I'm more at ease now I have a realistic time goal.

FRTC The article was good thanks, I have a 20 mile run to do on Sunday so will hopefully start to believe in myself again, saying that I may do the first 12miles of the 20miler on the trails(shhh) a few from our club are going up the Cotswolds hills so I'm thinking of joining them, I havn't ran with my club mates for ages. Nice 13mile session for you with a 6.55 last mile check you out. I would go for the snooze tomorrow you need to be well rested for Sunday. What new shoes did you buy?


08/09/2012 at 15:35

I hope you are all having a good weekend, its hot, hot, hot out there. I'm off to a party in a mo so wont be back until late! So FRTC hope you have a great race tomorrow, keep thinking positive and you will be just GGGGrrrrrrreat

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