RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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11/10/2012 at 18:03
Bro - My appologies re bum steer on the MT podium, which seems to have led other people astray also. I should pay attention more, but I've got a good excuse, I'm a bloke.

Oompa - It looks like you've tried everything to sort your injury out. I was a big ascis fan, having used over the years, 1100, 1140, 2150, 2160, 3030, and DS trainers. But switched to K-Swiss 100's, which by chance seemed to solve my tight hammys. Had gait analysis done and they said neutral.

Slokey - Living near a seaside resort with a big long sandy beach, I'd done a few runs over the years running barefoot on the beach, so it was something I'd tried already. Then this year whilst building up my Lsr's for Manchester mara, 17, 18, 19, and 20milers in Feb, my PF in my left heal became too painful. I couldn't manage more than 14m after that, and they were all with pain. I'm not a big mileage junkie, running only 3times a week, but x-train, cycling, gym.
With no autumn mara to train for this summer, I decided to re learn to run barefoot/forefoot style. So slowly building up mileage from just 1-2 miles running on forefoot. As DD says, Achilles/calves take alot of the strain, so you've got to be careful. I used some cheap aquashoes first just to see if it was working. Now I've got some Vivobarefoot Ultras, which are brilliant, and I've run upto 9miles in them. But when I do another mara, I'll probably use some lightweight racers, as not quite upto 26m with no cushioning yet. But the main thing is, PF is a thing of the past
11/10/2012 at 18:10
Minni - Yes drink your own blood, and while you're at it, drink your own urine, as that's supposed to be good for you too. Don't forget to put your names on the bottles on the Team Minni refuel table, or you could end up drinking someone else's.
11/10/2012 at 18:15

Just been skimming through and noticed the Fruit Shoot bottle idea.  You can get little bottles of water in packs of 10/12 in the supermarket these days (for lunchboxes) which are probably cheaper than FS and you won't have to drink the FS either

Definitely wouldn't leave gels on a communal table though, I lost one of mine at a lap marathon

11/10/2012 at 19:28
I can't look at my own urine without thinking about shaggy. He was always banging on about what colour it should be and mine is never that colour so I think I'll pass on the drinking of it!

USB - good tip but for those travelling on trains and planes it will
be easier to carry empty bottles.

Brolish - take it easy tomorrow. Definitely do a long and slow run. I got injured last year after a storming HM (knocking 4 mins off my pb) then being too cocky on a long run and going too fast. It's not worth the risk. So tomorrow if you start to get carried away them imagine me in front of you with a stick making you slow down!
11/10/2012 at 20:14

AA- well done on your MP run.  It's not supposed to feel like you could carry on for 26m, it never does!

simon62w wrote (see)
Bro - My appologies re bum steer on the MT podium, which seems to have led other people astray also. I should pay attention more, but I've got a good excuse, I'm a bloke. 

Simon- Ha ha, not to worry, I just didn't want Gazelle to think I'm stealing her thunder!

Free- hope you treated yourself to something nice.  I don't have any shops around where I work which is probably for the best but there's a new fat face now at the Waterloo station which I have to walk past most days.  Very very dangerous...

We are not really talking about drinking our blood/ urine?  I must be imagining it...

Minni- thanks for this, you actually made me think about it.  I have been buzzing like a bee since Sunday and probably going faster than I should (for a change). Moz also told me to hold back on pace tomorrow, I will make and extra effort to be good but I will leave imagining you with a stick until NY. It seems to work well so I wouldn't want to overuse it before the main event.

11/10/2012 at 20:16

These running shoes...

They are longing to stray...

Right through the very heart of it...

New York, New Yoooooooooooooooork

11/10/2012 at 21:42

Excited Bro?   Duration runs are good.  I did a 3:20 run in the spring (when I used to train for marathons!) that ended up 23 miles, was about 8:45 pace.  Set off slower for the first five miles though, about 9:00 pace.  How long have you been a coachee of Moz? Work sounds... interesting!

Ouch Barry, that doesn't sound pleasant.

Well done on the MP run AA.  I find MP always feels harder in training, you're untapered and there's traffic and stuff to contend with, plus there's nobody to race against.  Have you got a target for TM?

Good thinking USB! I like those little water bottles, they should give them out more at races.

7th place is excellent 2old, you might have been a long way off the 1st guy but so were the other 342 runners.  Shame about those pesky 5 seconds but they're only numbers really, aren't they.

Great to hear your coming on so well ST.  It's all progress and progress is good.

Chick - REST!  Enjoy the time off running.  I ran a grand total of 4 miles last week.  

Am I missing a trick with Marathon Talk?  I've never listened to it, the only way I know about it is because of on here and that Febulous thing we did earlier this year.

11/10/2012 at 21:46
Freemers wrote (see)

Weather forecast for Peterborough is now light rain...I am going to shave my head

Hooray rain 

Minni wrote (see)

MT doesn't seem to be downloading to my iPhone.  In fact its almost had it.  Should I get the new iPhone 5, Spoons?

Yes of course - and use the app DOWNCAST for your podcasts. 

11/10/2012 at 22:45
DD - Well done on your hot weather intervals. With your hot climate, it would be perfect training climate for a hot ultra, like MDS or even Badwater.
11/10/2012 at 22:56
Bro - agree, be careful tomorrow. Last long one?

Carrot - no traffic excuses for me, it was just horrid. Think TM is survival!! When do you get there and are you staying sunday night?? I just hope Minni won't lead me astray too much on Saturday afternoon
Edited: 11/10/2012 at 22:57
12/10/2012 at 00:33
Everyone looking okay. ((((BecsA ))). Tons to read back.

Ripon Ultra 35 mile Report.
Had been planned this as my first ultra for awhile but work got in way, only registered 10 days before. Two days later, pulled up at end of long run, knee felt like it was jammed in a cage. Really tight & sore but able to shuffle after stretching. Honestly thought I would have to pull out. Injury cleared, managed a steady 5m run Thu but a nagging feeling, would my leg hold out for 7-8 hours & 35 miles? I'm usually optimistic but I wouldn't have put a bet on myself finishing
Was running with my pal Jovi who had done the route twice so no major navigation to cope with, plus had the course on my Garmin as backup. Jovi had run this in 7:32 and 7:50 so knew there was nothing to be gained from a fast start, just a slow finish. Course is hilly from mile 15 onward so aim was to take it at a steady 9-10 min miles till then, walk the hills and run where possible.
Stayed overnight in Ripon, 5 mins from 9am start at Studley Roger village. What could go wrong? 8.10am Stuck post code in from last email, followed directions - to a racecourse? Wrong place. Panic, no mobile signal. Put the village in, different place about 10 mins away, then stuck in one way system went wrong way twice. Finally found it and arrived just as briefing starting. Grabbed my number, passed a bag to my pal Jovi's husband who was driving around following her, a change of kit if needed on top of my backpack. Panic. I was so nervous getting there late, I couldn't put my number on. Jovi's hubbie helped, he would pop up all over the course and very welcome sight every time.
Outside found Jovi and she introduced me to pal Mark, we would be??running together steady pace as agreed. M had done Berlin the Sunday before so tired. Finally off, able to get running. All pleasant, people to say hello to off Facebook group, a few surged ahead. We took our time, stuck to plan. A few streets then straight into countryside. Very pleasant weather, warm, pretty muddy in parts so wet under foot made it harder work. Checkpoint one came up pretty quick, 7 miles, water with electrolyte if needed, jelly babies, cake, flapjacks, very civilised.
12/10/2012 at 00:34
First 8 miles felt fresh, legs great but 9 miles right calf below knee tight. 10 miles really starting to feel sore. Through one section, I got stuck behind another runner so a little gap between me & pals, leg feeling really sore. For what felt like ages I was going to say to them, go ahead, I need to slow down and maybe even drop out. Was feeling a bit down. No giving up though, also thought of Shaggy Took 2 pain killers, gritted teeth for a few miles.
CP2??coming up so chance for a little rest.??Scenery really lovely, along streams, woods but very muddy. We came to a nice section where trees had been felled. Path not clear, garmin suggested a bit further up. Ground looked fine...Splat, dropped into 2ft of thick mud over the tops of compression socks. Could only get one leg out before sucked back in, helped out by 2 people. Couldn't help but laugh, I looked like I was wrapped in brown muddy paper. Shoes stayed on thankfully.??We moved on, past a Theakstons brewery, so unfair!??
Made CP2 16 miles. Phew. Stretch calf & quad. Difficult considering legs caked in mud but feeling better. Electrolyte & gorgeous stodgy fruit cake helped. Slight pain there, but could run. M tells me he is a GP, and took a neurofen off me. Got my second wind, the miles seemed to fly by. 17,18 more than half way.
Hills started properly now, power walk up, crest to the top and run down. Run more like a shuffle 10-11 min mile pace. Is there such a thing as an ultra shuffle? Right leg still a bit tight, Asked M about neurofen doses, no more than 800mg in 8 hrs or can affect kidneys. I'd taken 3 or 4 x 400mg??and had planned??to take another. Oops. Keep drinking water, more at next CP.
12/10/2012 at 00:35
CP3 was a bigger food stop, same as before plus pork pies, sausages. We'd had a few blok shots, but you get sick of the sweet stuff. Pork pies! way more fun than a marathon, the big hard section now coming up, miles 20-29 before final??CP4. A few times we checked Garmin when unsure, a few jokes about "computer says no!" but it did help. Think we ran through our 3rd farm on the smelly side of shitty, proper slurry, greeny looking mud. Picking our way through this. Jovi couldn't see if solid ground so grabbed a brick and dropped it in, splashed all over her. Funny. Also had to run interference on various cows, dogs. Miles kept clicking by, now past marathon distance & still fine. Expected to explode or collapse but legs still moving.
CP4, 6.5 miles to go, though some slow drainy hills and boggy land to finish, ups felt tough now, really slowed you on tired legs. 2 miles to go, Jovi was on for a PB so shouted back & sprinted off. M & I happy just to finish. Turns out he was struggling same time as me, we'd kept each other going. Lovely last mile through a deer park, turned the corner, agreed a joint finish, arms locked & raised through the line. Lovely way to end the run. 7hrs 23 and done. Beers to follow. And a big pork pie on way home.
Really enjoyed the day, would definitely do another, even longer.
12/10/2012 at 08:14

Very hectic week at work (have spent most of it wanting to kill people!) so just popping in to wish everyone well for the weekend - I'm sure another bunch of PBs will be making their way online on Sunday afternoon!

FRC - nice report and sounds like a very fun way to spend a day. Maybe one day I'll give it a bash...

Knee update... no pain whatsoever yesterday, and again so far today. Have been walking 5 miles per day (split into 2) all week and haven't had a reaction, so have pencilled the big test day in as a week today as I'm off to a wedding so can run on the grass in the morning. Am determined to be sensible about coming back, as have nothing entered for the remainder of 2012, so fingers crossed I can get in 8 or so weeks of base to kick off 2013 in decent shape. Having said that, I don't know how gutted I'll be if it goes straight away again as I'm beginning to feel positive about it again! 

Dubai Dave    pirate
12/10/2012 at 08:15


FRC Nice report

Oompa I'm neutral on my right foot, overpronate on left. My shoes just continue to get more and more minimal. This subject used to be discussed endlessly over on the daily training thread the best part of 10 years ago and all the high mileage types wore minimal shoes, it got me thinking and over the years I have gone the same way, but have dropped the high mileage bit

Simon: Many from here have done MDS and Badwater, personally neither appeal.

I am not drinking my own blood and urine for team Minni

So today went out and tried the new cycle track built out in the desert at the bequest of Sheik Mohammed, 85K of tamac laid across the desert purely for cyclist, where else but here? I dread to think what it cost but hey ho we now have a traffic free 85K cycle track! ended up doing just over a 100K by the time I doubled back for the rookies a few times at 32KPH. Tomorrow I run! 

Edited: 12/10/2012 at 08:16
12/10/2012 at 08:54

Morning everyone and happy Friday

Carrot- me? Excited? Nah.... why would you say that? Yes, I'm super excited! Can't believe it's only three weeks to go. Part of me just wants to get on with it while I'm feeling so well. I've been under M's orders since June so basically since the start of this campaign. I only found out about MT from SSheep around the VLM time this year and have been addicted to it since. Give it a go. I tend to listen to them on my long runs, it's a nice change from music.

AA- I'm not sure what Moz has in store for me for the next three weeks but I am guessing it will be the last 20+m run. 

FRC- good race report. I hope your niggles have cleared, sounds like you were in quite a bit of pain. So what's next on the agenda?

Redwood- really hope you're at last getting better. Fingers crossed!

DD- cycle track in the desert sounds awesome. As you say- only in Dubai...

I could get used to not working on Fridays. Had a nice lie in and a big bowl of porridge and now letting it settle before setting off for my monster run- bliss. Might do a spot of retail therapy later.


12/10/2012 at 09:05

FRC - love the report, not sure I'd be tempted though, but maybe once you've done one you just get the bug!

DD - cycling in the UK will be so awful for you when you are back...I mean there will be cars and lorries and stuff

Red - glad to hear your knee feels better...take it slowly though. You're doing the right thing, use the rest of the year to build up and then push on from there.

Carrot - MT is a bit hit and miss I think. I mainly listen for the interviews - they are not all as good as some, but occasionally you get a real gem. My favourite was one with Sister Madonna Buda (sp?) who is in her 80s and does IMs! She was amazing. I've also liked some of the interviews with legends like Ron Hill, Bruce Fordyce and Steve Jones, as they tell it like it really was in their day.  Less keen on ones with phyios and nutritionist people, but that's just me! The training talk section gets a bit repetitive - there are only so many different bits of marathon training and preparation they can cover I guess. I do like Tony's Trials too.


12/10/2012 at 09:37

FRC - 100 miles beckons!  Come on, you know you want to

DD - have to say you don't see many minimalist shoes [any?] on the long ultras I do.

AA - what time do you fly up to TM?  Might catch you at the airport.

Torrential rain here yesterday so skipped the run having got sprayed in all directions by traffic on the way home on the bike and passed a cyclist face down on the road where he had been hit by a car.  Idiot had dark clothes and no lights [the cyclist].  I had just bought a 600 lumens LED front light - so bright that I have been told to dip it down slightly when riding on lit roads.  Now plan to get a lightweight head torch version for winter night running. So far this week [after the ultra on Saturday] have only managed 7 miles Monday and 6 miles Wednesday plus three bike commutes.  Hoping to get out running today as the weather looks a bit better - heavy rain forecast for the HM on Sunday

12/10/2012 at 09:40

Redders - sounds like you've done a sensible rehab. Hope you can get back into it again soon. Must be mega frustrationg.

DD - bet there aren't many potholes on that! Sounds brilliant.

Freemers - I don't really do MT, i listened to one from Liz Yelling once and she was going on how hard she found training and family balance, and I really needed to here something positive and it put me off a bit! But you're right, I should try again beacuse I imagine if you get a good one it will pass the time.

Bro - enjoy your last long run. Its great to see you so positive and loving your running. Infectious

12/10/2012 at 09:42

O4S - I think I land about 11:30 on Saturday morning. You don't need to do much running on the week do you!?

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