RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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11/10/2012 at 22:45
DD - Well done on your hot weather intervals. With your hot climate, it would be perfect training climate for a hot ultra, like MDS or even Badwater.
11/10/2012 at 22:56
Bro - agree, be careful tomorrow. Last long one?

Carrot - no traffic excuses for me, it was just horrid. Think TM is survival!! When do you get there and are you staying sunday night?? I just hope Minni won't lead me astray too much on Saturday afternoon
Edited: 11/10/2012 at 22:57
12/10/2012 at 00:33
Everyone looking okay. ((((BecsA ))). Tons to read back.

Ripon Ultra 35 mile Report.
Had been planned this as my first ultra for awhile but work got in way, only registered 10 days before. Two days later, pulled up at end of long run, knee felt like it was jammed in a cage. Really tight & sore but able to shuffle after stretching. Honestly thought I would have to pull out. Injury cleared, managed a steady 5m run Thu but a nagging feeling, would my leg hold out for 7-8 hours & 35 miles? I'm usually optimistic but I wouldn't have put a bet on myself finishing
Was running with my pal Jovi who had done the route twice so no major navigation to cope with, plus had the course on my Garmin as backup. Jovi had run this in 7:32 and 7:50 so knew there was nothing to be gained from a fast start, just a slow finish. Course is hilly from mile 15 onward so aim was to take it at a steady 9-10 min miles till then, walk the hills and run where possible.
Stayed overnight in Ripon, 5 mins from 9am start at Studley Roger village. What could go wrong? 8.10am Stuck post code in from last email, followed directions - to a racecourse? Wrong place. Panic, no mobile signal. Put the village in, different place about 10 mins away, then stuck in one way system went wrong way twice. Finally found it and arrived just as briefing starting. Grabbed my number, passed a bag to my pal Jovi's husband who was driving around following her, a change of kit if needed on top of my backpack. Panic. I was so nervous getting there late, I couldn't put my number on. Jovi's hubbie helped, he would pop up all over the course and very welcome sight every time.
Outside found Jovi and she introduced me to pal Mark, we would be??running together steady pace as agreed. M had done Berlin the Sunday before so tired. Finally off, able to get running. All pleasant, people to say hello to off Facebook group, a few surged ahead. We took our time, stuck to plan. A few streets then straight into countryside. Very pleasant weather, warm, pretty muddy in parts so wet under foot made it harder work. Checkpoint one came up pretty quick, 7 miles, water with electrolyte if needed, jelly babies, cake, flapjacks, very civilised.
12/10/2012 at 00:34
First 8 miles felt fresh, legs great but 9 miles right calf below knee tight. 10 miles really starting to feel sore. Through one section, I got stuck behind another runner so a little gap between me & pals, leg feeling really sore. For what felt like ages I was going to say to them, go ahead, I need to slow down and maybe even drop out. Was feeling a bit down. No giving up though, also thought of Shaggy Took 2 pain killers, gritted teeth for a few miles.
CP2??coming up so chance for a little rest.??Scenery really lovely, along streams, woods but very muddy. We came to a nice section where trees had been felled. Path not clear, garmin suggested a bit further up. Ground looked fine...Splat, dropped into 2ft of thick mud over the tops of compression socks. Could only get one leg out before sucked back in, helped out by 2 people. Couldn't help but laugh, I looked like I was wrapped in brown muddy paper. Shoes stayed on thankfully.??We moved on, past a Theakstons brewery, so unfair!??
Made CP2 16 miles. Phew. Stretch calf & quad. Difficult considering legs caked in mud but feeling better. Electrolyte & gorgeous stodgy fruit cake helped. Slight pain there, but could run. M tells me he is a GP, and took a neurofen off me. Got my second wind, the miles seemed to fly by. 17,18 more than half way.
Hills started properly now, power walk up, crest to the top and run down. Run more like a shuffle 10-11 min mile pace. Is there such a thing as an ultra shuffle? Right leg still a bit tight, Asked M about neurofen doses, no more than 800mg in 8 hrs or can affect kidneys. I'd taken 3 or 4 x 400mg??and had planned??to take another. Oops. Keep drinking water, more at next CP.
12/10/2012 at 00:35
CP3 was a bigger food stop, same as before plus pork pies, sausages. We'd had a few blok shots, but you get sick of the sweet stuff. Pork pies! way more fun than a marathon, the big hard section now coming up, miles 20-29 before final??CP4. A few times we checked Garmin when unsure, a few jokes about "computer says no!" but it did help. Think we ran through our 3rd farm on the smelly side of shitty, proper slurry, greeny looking mud. Picking our way through this. Jovi couldn't see if solid ground so grabbed a brick and dropped it in, splashed all over her. Funny. Also had to run interference on various cows, dogs. Miles kept clicking by, now past marathon distance & still fine. Expected to explode or collapse but legs still moving.
CP4, 6.5 miles to go, though some slow drainy hills and boggy land to finish, ups felt tough now, really slowed you on tired legs. 2 miles to go, Jovi was on for a PB so shouted back & sprinted off. M & I happy just to finish. Turns out he was struggling same time as me, we'd kept each other going. Lovely last mile through a deer park, turned the corner, agreed a joint finish, arms locked & raised through the line. Lovely way to end the run. 7hrs 23 and done. Beers to follow. And a big pork pie on way home.
Really enjoyed the day, would definitely do another, even longer.
12/10/2012 at 08:14

Very hectic week at work (have spent most of it wanting to kill people!) so just popping in to wish everyone well for the weekend - I'm sure another bunch of PBs will be making their way online on Sunday afternoon!

FRC - nice report and sounds like a very fun way to spend a day. Maybe one day I'll give it a bash...

Knee update... no pain whatsoever yesterday, and again so far today. Have been walking 5 miles per day (split into 2) all week and haven't had a reaction, so have pencilled the big test day in as a week today as I'm off to a wedding so can run on the grass in the morning. Am determined to be sensible about coming back, as have nothing entered for the remainder of 2012, so fingers crossed I can get in 8 or so weeks of base to kick off 2013 in decent shape. Having said that, I don't know how gutted I'll be if it goes straight away again as I'm beginning to feel positive about it again! 

Dubai Dave    pirate
12/10/2012 at 08:15


FRC Nice report

Oompa I'm neutral on my right foot, overpronate on left. My shoes just continue to get more and more minimal. This subject used to be discussed endlessly over on the daily training thread the best part of 10 years ago and all the high mileage types wore minimal shoes, it got me thinking and over the years I have gone the same way, but have dropped the high mileage bit

Simon: Many from here have done MDS and Badwater, personally neither appeal.

I am not drinking my own blood and urine for team Minni

So today went out and tried the new cycle track built out in the desert at the bequest of Sheik Mohammed, 85K of tamac laid across the desert purely for cyclist, where else but here? I dread to think what it cost but hey ho we now have a traffic free 85K cycle track! ended up doing just over a 100K by the time I doubled back for the rookies a few times at 32KPH. Tomorrow I run! 

Edited: 12/10/2012 at 08:16
12/10/2012 at 08:54

Morning everyone and happy Friday

Carrot- me? Excited? Nah.... why would you say that? Yes, I'm super excited! Can't believe it's only three weeks to go. Part of me just wants to get on with it while I'm feeling so well. I've been under M's orders since June so basically since the start of this campaign. I only found out about MT from SSheep around the VLM time this year and have been addicted to it since. Give it a go. I tend to listen to them on my long runs, it's a nice change from music.

AA- I'm not sure what Moz has in store for me for the next three weeks but I am guessing it will be the last 20+m run. 

FRC- good race report. I hope your niggles have cleared, sounds like you were in quite a bit of pain. So what's next on the agenda?

Redwood- really hope you're at last getting better. Fingers crossed!

DD- cycle track in the desert sounds awesome. As you say- only in Dubai...

I could get used to not working on Fridays. Had a nice lie in and a big bowl of porridge and now letting it settle before setting off for my monster run- bliss. Might do a spot of retail therapy later.


12/10/2012 at 09:05

FRC - love the report, not sure I'd be tempted though, but maybe once you've done one you just get the bug!

DD - cycling in the UK will be so awful for you when you are back...I mean there will be cars and lorries and stuff

Red - glad to hear your knee feels better...take it slowly though. You're doing the right thing, use the rest of the year to build up and then push on from there.

Carrot - MT is a bit hit and miss I think. I mainly listen for the interviews - they are not all as good as some, but occasionally you get a real gem. My favourite was one with Sister Madonna Buda (sp?) who is in her 80s and does IMs! She was amazing. I've also liked some of the interviews with legends like Ron Hill, Bruce Fordyce and Steve Jones, as they tell it like it really was in their day.  Less keen on ones with phyios and nutritionist people, but that's just me! The training talk section gets a bit repetitive - there are only so many different bits of marathon training and preparation they can cover I guess. I do like Tony's Trials too.


12/10/2012 at 09:37

FRC - 100 miles beckons!  Come on, you know you want to

DD - have to say you don't see many minimalist shoes [any?] on the long ultras I do.

AA - what time do you fly up to TM?  Might catch you at the airport.

Torrential rain here yesterday so skipped the run having got sprayed in all directions by traffic on the way home on the bike and passed a cyclist face down on the road where he had been hit by a car.  Idiot had dark clothes and no lights [the cyclist].  I had just bought a 600 lumens LED front light - so bright that I have been told to dip it down slightly when riding on lit roads.  Now plan to get a lightweight head torch version for winter night running. So far this week [after the ultra on Saturday] have only managed 7 miles Monday and 6 miles Wednesday plus three bike commutes.  Hoping to get out running today as the weather looks a bit better - heavy rain forecast for the HM on Sunday

12/10/2012 at 09:40

Redders - sounds like you've done a sensible rehab. Hope you can get back into it again soon. Must be mega frustrationg.

DD - bet there aren't many potholes on that! Sounds brilliant.

Freemers - I don't really do MT, i listened to one from Liz Yelling once and she was going on how hard she found training and family balance, and I really needed to here something positive and it put me off a bit! But you're right, I should try again beacuse I imagine if you get a good one it will pass the time.

Bro - enjoy your last long run. Its great to see you so positive and loving your running. Infectious

12/10/2012 at 09:42

O4S - I think I land about 11:30 on Saturday morning. You don't need to do much running on the week do you!?

Dubai Dave    pirate
12/10/2012 at 10:28
AA potholes ? What are they? No rain, no frost = no potholes. All the Tarmac here is super smooth. The couple of times i rode in the UK this year were an education.

O4S; Even my trail shoes are minimalist New Balance or Inov. I too have a 600 lumens light, people assume your a motorbike, its great! as yet i haven't found a 600 lumens rear light
Edited: 12/10/2012 at 10:29
12/10/2012 at 11:45
old4speed wrote (see)

Barry:  Small, blonde, old, slow.  Wearing white Westbury Harriers top with blue chest hoop.  I presume I look out for a small yellow bird??


O4S -  Yeah small yellow bird with a 13 year daughter moaning she's bored and a black cocker spaniel going mental at the runners.  What's your first name? I would get some strange looks calling out "old 4 speed".

FRC - Sounds a whole lot of fun, but not for me - yet.

Red - More promising news, good luck with the return to running.

I know the TM runners/crew are going to have a few but blood and urine - nice cocktail.

12/10/2012 at 12:11

Red - sounds promising. Hope the running test goes painlessly.

Nice report FRC, not for me though! (even marathons aren't for me!)

I've decided to go for the beetroot juice before Sunday after all - got some this morning and I'm actually developing quite a taste for it! Did 3 miles easy this morning. Weather (not that I'm obsessed or anything) is now looking absolutely perfect for GER - cool, dry and what little wind there is behind us for the second half Please don't change now!

12/10/2012 at 12:21
Daren - more importantly are you planning on red wine afterwards again??!
12/10/2012 at 12:39
Dubai Dave wrote (see)

I am not drinking my own blood and urine for team Minni

Come on - HTFU and show some commitment to the team!

12/10/2012 at 12:40

Dubai Dave has his own private road. Nice! potholes in the UK? Nooo. More like craters now. Not sure how long your lovely bikes would last.

O4S, 100 miles can wait a year or two! Thinking of some 35-50 mile events next year,, the Thames one in Feb?, maybe even the Hadrians wall 69 miler in a day. I'm up for Rotherham 50 next year if you want a toy (boy?) man.. do I pass the test? Photo from saturday here.

Brol, not long for you to go. Exciting! You will fly. We want to be a part of it, NY, New Yoooork. Its cool in November there yes?

Gazelle, & Chic, hope you are resting and relaxing on a fab day. (((Becsa))) too.

Mike who did TR24 with 5 of us I mentioned ran Chester in 3:28. His garmin didn't charge overnight so had to use a stopwatch. He tagged along with someone, through half in 1:40 and then asked her what time she was after at mile 17 - sub 3:20. Silly. 2old - remember to charge !

Daren, good luck to you and Minni on Sunday at GER.

As for minimal shoes, someone wore Vibram 5 fingers in the muddy ultra on Saturday. Hate to think what he was like in the mud & cow shit later on. Sure he could feel every contour, and squelch .

What niggles? I think it was just a mental thing to be honest. Getting second, third wind. (O4S, DD?). After Saturdays fun, Tuesday I did club 10 hills session nearly flat out, Wed Speed/ Strength class, Thu Tempo run. Apart from being hungry, my legs & me feel fine.

And just to keep my body guessing after an ultra, next run is a 10k - Borders League a week on Sunday in Caenarfon

12/10/2012 at 13:54

Phew, 24m done in 3h24min @ 8:30 with quite a few hills thrown in. Felt very comfortable.

FRC- It seems to be cooling down in NY, fingers crossed. It's around 17 degrees (max) at the moment.

I don't like the idea of taper approaching...

12/10/2012 at 14:07

AA - I hardly ever listen to MT on a run, just find someone talking in my ear for that long too off putting! I generally listen on one of my morning commutes.

Last run before the GER today - originally thinking about intervals but I couldn't get to a treadmill as I am working at home, and hate doing them outside.  Decided on a quick 7 miles instead - progressive pace but averaged 7.30.  Too quick if I was actually racing the GER but the pace felt OK and put me in a confident mood for Sunday - still aiming for around 1.40-1.42, but really the objective is to settle into a comfortable pace which is sub 8's all the way.

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