RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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16/10/2012 at 22:04

16/10/2012 at 22:06

There you go 2old.  You can click on the link in the TM Reference Library where you will find all the sheets.  Bookmark it on your computer for easy access!

I must get the race list updated.  Can you believe we're going to need a 2013 sheet created!

16/10/2012 at 22:12
Neil sorry Daren - Racing flats are getting close to running in minamilist shoes. Too make them work you don't have to run faster, you just need to have a more bio mechanically efficient gait. You could run a 2hr HM or 4hr Mara in them, as long as your not a heavy heal striking plodder.

TM session for me today, after warm up, 6mins @8.30pace, 5 @8.00, 4 @7.30, 3 @7.00, 2 @6.30, and 1 @6.00. But no recovery, so a progressive paced sess. Felt good in minamalist shoes.
16/10/2012 at 22:18

Nice Simon.  A chap my my running club has gone minimalistic - a hardy fell runner he is too.  I tried on his shoes tonight and they are very close to the ground.  I'm not convinced they're for me but watching with interest.

17/10/2012 at 00:51

those Saucony A4 racing flats I got are okay for 10ks, tried them on a speed session tonight, okay but pavement a little uneven. probably too hard on legs for regular use, and just keep for races on road. 10k on Sunday with club.

2old, you've got the Tatton half and lancaster half on Nov 4th if any use to you, if Conway not possible.

just read that the female winner of Liverpool marathon, ran 20 miles on a broken ankle... scary. 3:01. article here


Dubai Dave    pirate
17/10/2012 at 07:14


FRC I use A4's for speed work from time to time, and the few times I race 5K but you have to be a prety efficient runner to use them for anything longer.

Cycled hard at dawn, speed work tonight, off to Jordan for work in the morning.

17/10/2012 at 08:41
Mine aren't the most minimalist of flats I don't think - Asics Tarther, more of a racing trainer really - but definitely don't feel a HM is too far to run in them - just need to work on those calves! Simon, I agree with your point re: efficiency and without meaning to big myself up I think I am a reasonably efficient runner (that's what the guy in the shop told me anyway although maybe he was just trying to sell me some shoes!) plus I'm relatively light. He knows his stuff and said he always runs marathons in flats but then he is very fast! He did say that at my pace running 10ks and HMs in them shouldn't be a problem. The point I was making about pace is that the faster you run the more you naturally run on your fore/mid foot until when you're sprinting you're up on your toes and flats work better with a fore/mid strike. The way I see it is that I was running 5ks in flats at 6:30mm so why shouldn't I run HMs in them at the same pace? I don't feel I need extra support, it's just that cramp problem but that might be easily solved by taking in some salts/fluids along the way or just getting used to running in the flats more often.
Anyway, horribly wet and windy 3 miles this morning. Hamstrings a bit tight from Sunday but other than that all good.
17/10/2012 at 08:46

Ah, DD, that Jordan - she'll keep you busy no doubt

Barry - hope you get the tooth sorted today. I hate the dentist!

FRC - love the quote "it didn't seem that bad so I just kept going."

Presumably racing flats make you run more on your forefoot - another reason Daren why your calves will feel it as they take a lot more strain that way.  I don't think I'd ever be fast enough to feel I have justified using them

Minni - ooh yes, need to start thinking about 2013 soon....prep races for VLM especially.

Looking at some intervals later as my one "session" for this week - nothing too strenuous though.

17/10/2012 at 09:00
I've just received an email from GER asking me if I want to buy some photos including a link to some pics of who I presume is Neil Flack. Grrrrr! They still haven't had the courtesy to reply to any of my emails.
Edited: 17/10/2012 at 09:01
17/10/2012 at 09:00

"There was drama at Sunday's (14 October) RunLiverpool marathon when it was discovered that the winner of the women's race, Katie White had run the last 20 miles with a broken ankle" - sounds like your husband has pretty impressive WAVA times too O4S!  

17/10/2012 at 09:06
Freemers, exactly re: the forefront thing and I think that's why I prefer them as they help to stop you getting lazy, losing form and starting to heel strike when you're tired. I think I just need to build up to it. Thinking about it I deliberately started heel striking in the last couple of miles as that seemed to keep the cramps at bay so that all makes sense.
Edited: 17/10/2012 at 09:10
17/10/2012 at 09:45

My photos are terrible

Dubai Dave    pirate
17/10/2012 at 10:09

Daren, your absolutely right, sprint and you go up on your toes, get tired, slow down and you heel strike, Me all over. Like you I prefer the minimalist approach. If your not already try wearing compression socks / calf guards, they make a difference.

17/10/2012 at 10:10

Minni-thanks for the data inputting. Yes, 2013 is nearly here and as I sit here twiddling my thumbs recovering I had the mad idea of running the Boston Marathon on the Monday followed by London the Sunday after. Daft I know but its very tempting. Looking forward to seeing everyones races for next year.

DD-good to see you didnt use Jordan as an excuse to have a rest

Simon-that was a good session-it would be interesting to see how it went if you repeated it with normal running shoes

FRC-Tatton is full so I have my eye on Lancaster but really its just a bit too close to last Sunday for me. I dont have the recovery powers that the rest here have

Darren-one day you might smile about the timing cock up day...Im a bit miffed too as a website called run 247 has a 30min video of Liverpool and shows finishers around my time and as it gets to about 5 secs before I cross the line its edited to another scene so my finish is probably sitting on the editors floor(or hard drive ) somewhere.

Red-You see, if she can run with a broken leg anything is possible-I wonder what further damage she may have done by carrying on.

Legs feeling a bit more normal today but still not ready for a run so maybe another swim.


Free -Im sure the pics cant be as bad as the one posted of me by FRC

17/10/2012 at 10:40

Have a nice time in Jordan DD, even if it is work. I went there once on a work trip and loved it (well, I say work trip, it was basically a free holiday that I just had to write about - not a bad perk of the job!). I've ordered some compression socks so I'll give them a go. I'm going to have a proper dress rehearsal before Norwich I think - a reasonably quick 13-miler with compression socks, racing flats and zero tablets - see how that goes.

2Old, the video editor probably saw you coming and thought he couldn't subject the public to that sight 

17/10/2012 at 10:57

Daren -  That was my point, when runners get tired they start to lose their form which would be made worse by wearing flats, so anything gained by racing flats could be lost in the last few miles of a HM. What do you run in when training? I know you have put in some quick medium long runs in the build up to GER.

17/10/2012 at 11:36
Redwood wrote (see)

"There was drama at Sunday's (14 October) RunLiverpool marathon when it was discovered that the winner of the women's race, Katie White had run the last 20 miles with a broken ankle" - sounds like your husband has pretty impressive WAVA times too O4S!  


Daren, try Nuun tablets. I find they work loads better than zeros.

17/10/2012 at 11:46

Darren- harsh! its not as though I vomited on the finishline -maybe I should have or collapsed and heroically wobbled to the finish

17/10/2012 at 11:47

Barry, I personally think the flats actually help you keep good form, partly because the lighter weight makes it easier to keep cadence up and also because it's so easy to sit back on your heels when you're wearing regular running shoes with a built-up heel, whereas the flats remove that temptation. But I agree about the training not giving me adequate practice in them. Anything over about 6 miles was done in my regular trainers so I'm going to do pretty much everything before Norwich, except recovery jogs and the one proper LSR I've got planned, in my flats.

17/10/2012 at 11:54

Thanks Chick, I'll probably how I get on with the Zero tablet first though as I got one free in my GER race pack and I'm a cheapskate lol

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