RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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13/11/2012 at 16:13
M.r Zuvai wrote (see)

on my travels again - i've packed my running kit but forgot my trainers  there's a decent sweetshop not for from the office here in manchester so i'll see how expensice they are!


Sweetshops tend to sell chocolate and similar down here - no wonder those Northerners are so mean and lean
Mr Z:

13/11/2012 at 16:58
Mr Z - Try and find a Soccer sports store, they tend to sell the top brands cheaper.

Barry - Re compression socks. 1000 mile are very thin, so I then used to wear a pair of normal socks over the top, so gives extra blister protection.
13/11/2012 at 17:12
Bro - Re auto laps. If you've worked out your target ie 7.30 mmp, even if auto laps is out for some laps, as long as your total ave pace is still on target you're ok. If you have total ave pace (tap) as one of your main screens, you'll know if you were off pace for the previous lap, as tap will change. And then you don't need to worry about pressing or double pressing your lap button.
13/11/2012 at 17:31
Barry- seeing Physio in a few minutes
FRC- compression socks- yes wearing them- not sure if they help but will try anything
Bro - Simon- I forget to press the button and often miss the odd mile marker like Minni especially near the end of a long race so I just leave it to the Garmin even though it can result in odd data
Chick. - nice chilled run - its strangely warm here
Daren - I got to the 10 k stage in my recent HM in 40.17 so you are easily capable of going sub 6.30mm . Just set that pace as the slowest pace you are prepared to go
13/11/2012 at 17:47
Daren- that's a very swift HMP
Simon- hmm... Not so sure. Assuming that the garmin will over measure the distance (which it has done in every mara I ran) even if I ignore lap pace, my average pace will also be off. Or am I missing something?
I used manual lapping in the last half mara and it was great, I'm just concerned about working with kms (all 42 of them). But I think I'll give it a go.
It's warm where I am as well, shorts and t shirts all the way.
13/11/2012 at 18:24

2Old, I certainly don't intend to go out any faster than 6:30mm, well maybe 6:28/6:29, but no more - I just don't think my training supports it and I'd much rather reach halfway feeling I could push on a bit like I did at GER where I ran a slight negative split than spend the second half slowing.

Autolaps all the way for me, although keeping in mind roughly how long before the markers it's beeping. I find generally that Garmin pace will be about 3-4 secs per mile faster than official time.

13/11/2012 at 20:40
Bro - Ok garmin may read long, but you could allow for that in your pacing. I can't remember what your Pb or target is, but using a target of 3:20hrs for example. That's = 200mins, x60 = 12000secs divided by 26.2 = 458secs, = 7.38 mmp. So you know that 12000 secs divided by 26.2 gives you 3:20 time. So 12000 div by 26.3 = 456.27 which equals 7.36.27 mmp, so for each 0.1 mile over, you only have to reduce your ave pace per mile by 1.73secs. So even if it measures 26.4miles, you only have to increase your mile pace by 3.46secs, ie to 7.34.54 mmp. And if it isn't long you'll be 60-90secs under target.
13/11/2012 at 20:56

Daren- Is the big day this weekend or next???I feel your nerves already

Brolish- Go for manual lapping, as you say you liked it last time. The other option would be to wear two watches??

Simon-Don't confuse us even more with those stats

2old- What did the physio say?

FRC- Fab race again for you.

Freemers- I have 1000mile compression socks in bright pink so only wear them as recovery socks, I'm too shy to wear them outside lol. I might buy a pair of neutral ones to train and race in if it will knock a few minutes off my time.

I have 5 weeks to go until my 10k race, today I did a speed session of 8x400m with 90 sec recovery's, the 400m  paces were between 6;23 and 6:27. I like the shorter reps I think its because when it starts to hurt you get to have a breather, I wouldn't of been able to run any further at that pace. I have 5 long slow runs planned for the rest of the week

13/11/2012 at 21:01

Daren - I love it when you've got a race coming up.

I had a great run tonight.  Had a meeting at 6.30 so ran straight after work, before I had to be back for the meeting.  Normally when I've run from work I go around the town walls and the cliff tops and I never really feel that comfortable.  I can't really explain it - good running surfaces and very pretty but I can't seem to relax and I think its down to the people.  I'm not used to seeing anyone when I'm out running and meeting lots of people out for a stroll seems to unsettle me. 

Tonight I took a different route.  6 miles so I headed through the town and along the coast then back.  It was remarkably flat, compared to what I'm used it and really nice.  I found it was about 2.5 miles to the promenade, which is pan flat and stretches for just under a mile - perfect for speedwork.  

This is elevation!  Definitley going to add this as a regular route.

Bit of an unfortunate incident today... Driving to work I realised I still had my old metallic pink Doc Martins on that I'd stuck on to take the rubbish out.   Don't go well with a skirt suit......

13/11/2012 at 21:09

You're not suggesting I overthink my race strategies are you Minni?  Sounds like a nice run for you this evening.

Brolish, it's next weekend. I'm very thorough in my preparation! Well done on the 400s.

13/11/2012 at 21:13

Oh the elevation map didn't work and I'm too far into the red now to care!

I just love your enthusiasm Daren. I love the before, during (when I've seen you during) and the after.  You are what running is all about.  Pity you waste your talent on football and f****m, but that's another story!

13/11/2012 at 21:27
Daren- so 6.29/8 is certainly faster than 6.30. Like your logic
Gazelle- nice interval session. Physio says I've got a slight tear in the lateral part of my right gastracnemius however it's spelt. Very painful deep massage to break scar tissue. Told to avoid running for a week but can cycle and swim Stretches ,ice and heat area too. Fingers crossed.
Minni- jealous of that great run
Off to the pub now. What else is there left in my life?
13/11/2012 at 21:31

Some might say I waste my football talent on running Minni  Although, judging by the fact I play in Division 3A of the Norwich & District Sunday League, they probably wouldn't...

It is indeed 2Old haha. Make sure you rest that calf and hope it heals soon.

Edited: 13/11/2012 at 21:32
13/11/2012 at 21:49

Intervals for me tonight:  5 flat efforts at about 90%, each one followed by 150m recovery and then an uphill effort, followed by a downhill recovery - repeat until sick.   Not that long in total, but building up the number of laps each week.

13/11/2012 at 22:03

Evening gang  Had a pretty busy few days so no time to get on the forum.

Bro - definitely go for the manual lapping, KMs are even better for making sure you're keeping to pace. As Chick said, it makes the race go over quicker! All the marathons I've done with KM markers I've run under 3:30. All the marathons I've run with mile markers have been over 3:30.

Free - I love the socks and shorts look, I still need to get brave enough to try it out as I always think runnersat races with a socks and shorts combo look like they're going to be really fast!

2old - REST!!

Went along to a track session at a running club tonight (as mentioned a few weeks ago to the 'ladies who lunch') We did a pyramid, which was great as I like pyramids! 200 - 400 - 600 - 800 - 1000 - 1000 - 800 - 600 - 400 - 200. I really enjoyed it, will be going back next week and I'm signing up to be an actual affiliated runner! No more 'unattached' next to my name in race results.

Hope your session at the running club went well tonight too Weeble.

Minni I once spent a day at work in a nice dress, tights, and.... bright yellow Mizuno Wave Riders.  Ooops. 

13/11/2012 at 22:22


Busy day for me at work followed by a 6pm session: 2 mile rep + 4 x 400s + 2 mile rep.

Then 7pm I was coaching the main club group: 1 mile rep + 20 min rolling hills + 5 hill sprints + 1 mile rep. I nearly killed them 

13/11/2012 at 22:22
ARG. The calf curse has claimed another victim.

Nice easy run at lunchtime, well through the run and warmed up, warm weather, easy even pace, no reason for it at all, and I feel my calf pull. Never had a calf problem before. Stopped immediately and walked back the last 10mins of the run.

It feels small and localised, its stiff but loosens up when I walk so I can still feel it there but it doesn't affect my walking.

Advice needed please folks on what I need to do to get this healing right - unfortunately there seems to be a lot of expertise on this one round here...
13/11/2012 at 23:18

Oh no KFC. Any swelling or pain when not running? Does it feel like you truly pulled something or caught it just as it was happening? For the latter I find a couple of diligent days of RICE-ing can be enough.

Some nice sessions going on, some people are clearly not using the excuse of base building to skip the speed work. And Spoons, you're a sadist.

So I enjoyed the club run, I've always been a bit adverse to group runs before but I think I'll try a couple more sessions and then probably join. There was no beginners' group in the end, but I stuck to the shortest six mile route and was pleased to find I was fitter than I thought I'd be. But I've found it's how the calf reacts afterwards that is the key. If I can have a pain free run on Thursday after a day's rest I'll be very happy.

Dubai Dave    pirate
14/11/2012 at 04:45


kfc: normal advice, rest, ice, compress and elevate, sounds like you caught it in time.

Bro: its a marathon marked in K's so set your garmin to metric and run in mins/K. 5 min/k's = 8 min/miles = 3-30 marathon simples, as long as garmin average pace on auto lap read 4-55 ish you home and dry. Garmins will always read long on a measured AIMS marathon as their measured taking the tangents on all the bends, your never going to follow the shortest route your self. Other answer is write the split times on you arm and just look at them as you pass 5/10/15K etc.

Will splash at lunch, intervals tonight, holiday tomorrow for Islamic New Year ( they don't do much partying) and then Charity 140 mile bike ride with 7000 feet of climbing on Friday.

14/11/2012 at 08:17
Weeble - its stiff (like after a bad calf cramp) but not what I'd call painful unless I prod it hard. It had me limping yesterday, but good news - not this morning. When I did it it was really undramatic - just felt the slightest of tugs and no pain, but I knew straight away something wasn't right.
Glad things went well at run club!

DD - hope you are right. Hopefully it won't take long to heal - I just want to make sure I don't do anything to increase the chances it happens again
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