RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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20/11/2012 at 11:56

Forever - I really enjoyed Bungay. Two laps, the first half of each lap is undulating, nothing really steep but some of inclines go on a fair while. The second half is almost dead flat.  In the second lap you start to have the fast runners doing the HM come past you (they start 2 hours after the full) which is fun - although the speed you'll be doing it should be really near the end before anyone passes you, if at all! A really nice friendly event.  When you go through the half way point there are usually a load of the HM runners clapping everyone through, which is nice.

I agree VLM can be a bit much at times, but I do like all the build up to it!

20/11/2012 at 12:04

I'm wondering on the long run front if a good strategy would be to spread them out more through the whole schedule, rather than the back end.  So aim to alternate each Sunday with a 20 (or more) and a 15-ish over a 10-12 week period before the taper. So I'd still get the same number in but it would give my body more time to recover from each one. In the past I've never done that because I've never felt able to do 20 miles until I'm a fair way into the schedule. But I think having done an autumn marathon I could do a 20 miler quite early on in the schedule.  Anyone tried that sort of strategy before?

20/11/2012 at 12:20

Freemers thank you. I did the Bungay HM a few years ago but wondered how it felt as a full. Mmm will have a serious think about it.

The very first marathon I did was from a Hal Higdon schedule. He advocates alternate long runs as you suggested, 20 one week, drop back to 13/14 the next, then back to 20. I ran 3.45 using his schedule as a newish runner.

20/11/2012 at 12:20

Free- haven't tried alternating them before.  Looking at my schedule I've been doing 20m right from the start and most weeks except when racing.  I've clocked up 9x 20+ (one of them 24) and 2x 18m.  So if it's all down to long runs I should be flying on Sunday- lol!

Amazing how different we all are.  I have no problems kocking out 20m right from the start but my speed goes completely after a few weeks of taking it easy.

20/11/2012 at 12:23

Wow Brolish - you certainly deserve a good race! What time are you aiming for?

20/11/2012 at 12:33
Minni - Re lsr's, I think you can get away with not doing many, if you're not aiming for something too fast. I Pb'd this spring and only did 1 20miler due to PF, but even Furm*n plan has you doing 4-5 20milers. But why not bother doing any 20milers atall, as per Hanson brothers training plan. Nothing further than 16m, food for thought.
20/11/2012 at 12:51

Simon - it would be good to try but risky.  I want every marathon to count in my ageing years.

 

20/11/2012 at 13:03

Forever- it's still the elusive sub 3.30.

20/11/2012 at 13:07

Ant - Belated congratulations on your half pb from the weekend

With regards to the "how many long runs debate", i'm certainly not as experienced a marathoner as some of you guys but for VLM 2010, i ran a 6-day schedule that incorporated 6 x 20+ long runs (all slow), broke down 10 days before the race (on a 4m recovery run), and subsequently ran 3.52. This year i followed a 5-day RW programme that only did 2 x 20 (1x slow, 10m slow/10m @ m.p) and 1 x 22 (11m slow/11m @ m.p) and subsequently felt fresh and ready and should've gone quicker than i did. Given how injury prone i am, i will definitely be doing similar, but possibly with longer mid-week tempo runs this time around.

Right... Now this is getting ridiculous... Being in another country (basking in the sun i'd wager) is NO excuse... COOKS... WHERE IS YOUR RACE REPORT!!!!!

20/11/2012 at 13:11

Hi all,

Hope you don't mind me joining in here. I have been regularly posting on the sub 3:15 thread since that's my aim for next year. However, I haven't been under 3:30 in recent years. My, current, training paces may be better aligned here and it's good to get different views.

I can see some already crossover to both. Hopefully, I can gain some more words of wisdom here, also!

20/11/2012 at 13:12
Chick - Can you take First defence when you've already got a cold, or only to prempt it?
20/11/2012 at 13:13

forever: doing Hamburg marathon on April 21 (same day as the VLM). I had a longish discussion with Mr. Chick who wasn't too pleased when I told him I wanted to continue marathoning. He thought I'd be done with it now that sub 3:30 is in the bag. Little does he now that AFTER the marathon is always BEFORE the marathon . Because he's a cyclist and wants us to do some bike stuff together over the summer which would conflict with my running. Not to keen on getting divorced so I decided I'd do a spring marathon this time around and focus on shorter races over summer/autumn, i. e. I can do my running mid-week and we do bike stuff at weekends.

Minni: of course it's ok to keep mentioning Shaggy. I still think about him loads and have conversations with him in my head when I run. He will always be part of our little community.

Bro: that's an insane number of long runs!

I'm still not sure what works for me. I hate speedwork and I don't enjoy it at all. I got sub 3:30 with no speedwork worth mentioning (those 3 or 4 P&D workouts are peanuts). But I did 6 x 22 and lots and lots of midweek longer runs, huge chunks of those at MP. But I ran my slow runs real slow (9 or 9:30 ish). Perhaps that was the key? They always say train slow to run fast . Anyway, I would freak if I didn't have plenty of 20 milers in my schedule!

20/11/2012 at 13:15
simon62w wrote (see)
Chick - Can you take First defence when you've already got a cold, or only to prempt it?

it won't hurt. I think it works best before the cold takes up residence but it sure won't do any harm if it's already there. Basically it's a nasal spray that fights the germs in your sinuses. You may be able to shake it quicker this way. Note: I'm no medical doctor, so if you die, it's not my fault

20/11/2012 at 13:22

DS2- welcome!

chickadeee wrote (see)

Bro: that's an insane number of long runs!

Chick- well I am a bit insane, you know. I've never been good with moderation... which seems to translate into my running and drinking habits.

 

20/11/2012 at 13:22

Blimey, lots to catch up.

(((chickadee))).. Can't race well everytime. High h/r, not well?

BarryB, great 10k, so close again, those pesky 8 seconds at 10k & marathon. Grr. I'm 12 secs off on 10k also, maybe next week.

Cooks great mara & PB. especially throwing up to do 3:19. Also Forever, great sub 3:15, off no specific training? ace.

Ommpa, good 10k and main thing, let the calf get strong.

KFC, exploding legs? hmmm. time for rest, and then some gym work. Its kept me injury free. RE: Edinburgh. Its a good course, first 3mi downhill, then flat.

Gazelle, yes, skipping autumn marathon, lots of speed work and those 7 club races Sept-Oct.. huge difference. Ultra was just for fun.

Ant, great time for St Neots. As minni says, your endurance better than you think, go for spring 3:20?

PS, looking at the thread spreadsheet, whats with Daren's marathon time? Cough. Minni, something to cheer you up?

Report on way about Saturday race, sunday did a hard mrt / high cardio circuit - included Band jump exercise - band around your waist from behind, works quads, hams & calfs so in future good maybe for Ommpa & kfc... think of Hulk jumping in Avengers movie then running backwards fast.. it was fun!
Had a massage yesterday and legs, ham & calf are sore... my massage lady described them as crinkly like bubble wrap. Not sure its the half or if I over did the "Hulk Smash" bit. Opps DOM Dom dommm

20/11/2012 at 13:32
Chick - Thanks, have you pm'd me the disclaimer form for me to sign ? Its ok I've got life cover, so my OH will have a great chrimbo if I pop my clogs.

Minni - you've got plenty of time to experiment with different training plans before you become really old I'm sure. P&D, Hadd, Furman, Hanson brothers, MIUAYGA ( make it up as you go along ). I think that was most peoples first training plan. Stick them all in a hat, and pick one out each year, and we could have a good laugh as you try to stick to the plan.
20/11/2012 at 13:34

Well done Ant - St Neots is a very quick course so I can well imagine you had thoughts of 1.30 after getting to the top of the hill 2nd time around! I spent Sunday morning wandering around the animal sanctuary in Trent Park funnily enough...

Forever - well done on Luton, that's an exceptional time! I was planning to do it until I got injured - would you recommend it for next year?

Cooks - great work in Valencia. You deal with heat much better than me judging by your time!

Bro - don't be put off by the coach journey from Bilbao to SS, it's not that hilly when you get there, honest! I think I remember you saying your OH was getting mildly annoyed with your marathon obsession? If he likes football, the bus station at Bilbao is right next to Atletico's ground so he'll get two in with the marathon at Real Sociedad's too. I'm dead jealous you're running it, I love that part of the world - conditions sound ideal and you shouldn't get a massive breeze off of the sea because the island in the middle of the cove breaks it up. Fingers crossed for you! 

My injury update is we're in silly season for work, so I've been out at events solidly for the past two weeks. Been drinking heavily, and standing on my feet all day, neither of which are good for recovery. Beginning to wonder when it will sort itself out, now up to 4 months and still counting... 

20/11/2012 at 13:46
chickadeee wrote (see)

 I had a longish discussion with Mr. Chick who wasn't too pleased when I told him I wanted to continue marathoning. He thought I'd be done with it now that sub 3:30 is in the bag. Little does he now tha t AFTER the marathon is always BEFORE the marathon .

lol!  They never get it, do they!

chickadeee wrote (see)

I'm still not sure what works for me. I hate speedwork and I don't enjoy it at all. I got sub 3:30 with no speedwork worth mentioning (those 3 or 4 P&D workouts are peanuts). But I did 6 x 22 and lots and lots of midweek longer runs, huge chunks of those at MP. But I ran my slow runs real slow (9 or 9:30 ish). Perhaps that was the key? They always say train slow to run fast . Anyway, I would freak if I didn't have plenty of 20 milers in my schedule!

I got my sub 3:30 off the P&D too but I knew that I wouldn't progress much more on it, which was why I opted for coaching.    On that front I'm finding its getting more interesting as time goes on.  I have been with Moz for 18 months now and I'm sure he is still learning a lot about me as a runner and setting schedules based on that.   I'm expecting my London build up to be a bit different from this year....

Redwood - keep the faith.  You'll get there. 

Why hello there DS2


 

 

 

 

20/11/2012 at 13:50
FRC - That leg session would suit those mad people thinking of doing the BGR.

Spoons - Just remind me, BGR is 42peaks, in 75miles, in 24hrs, in the Lakes. Imagine how many of O4S's flapjacks you'd get thru?
20/11/2012 at 14:03

Imagine if we did this with O4S ....   we'd all eat her dust!

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