RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Freemers wrote (see)

Minni - glad you're feeling better and putting your sick day to good use. Please don't tell me I should only do two 20 milers - I love doing the long ones! But if you could let me know hte absolute optimum strategy for not leaving your best runs on the training ground that would be great  

Free- lol, I'm with you.  That's the bit I enjoy most!!!

Thanks for all your comments guys

 I've just been looking at pics from Sunday and you can tell when I suddenly knew sub 3.15 was possible! First time I have done a marathon without a pace band of any kind and my Garmin wasn't tallying up with mile markers, so I really had no idea how close I was till the final stages. Thankfully being laps I knew where the finish line was.

Ant well done indeed at St Neots! It's on my list of HMs to do.

Bro very best of luck at the weekend!

You have plenty of 'hope' Minni .....for one thing you are much younger than me...

Best wishes to you and others with the lurgy or struggling with injuries

Not sure whereabouts I will be on Sunday. I may cycle to one of the villages or may stick around the showground. Will see what the weather is like.

Yes, we enjoy them (me as much as anyone) but can some people do better in the marathon without doing so many?  Experienced marathon runners perhaps?

I didn't pb at Newcastle but ran my second fastest marathon and definitely didn't go full out (given that it hasn't taken me long to recover), Carrot ran her second fastest at Berlin, Forever just pb'd and two runners from the 3:15 thread (one male and one female) also recently pb'd, all on minimal long runs.  Food for thought.

Minni: glad you feel better. I quite like Matt Fitzgerald as an author. Brain Training for runners is another good read. Lots of really good advice that I never follow though

Simon: get the Vick's First Defence out . Hope you can nip it in the bud.

Ant: nice report and great pacing . What's your current marathon PB?

Bro: getting excited for you now! When are you travelling?

Minni wrote (see)

Yes, we enjoy them (me as much as anyone) but can some people do better in the marathon without doing so many?  Experienced marathon runners perhaps?

I didn't pb at Newcastle but ran my second fastest marathon and definitely didn't go full out (given that it hasn't taken me long to recover), Carrot ran her second fastest at Berlin, Forever just pb'd and two runners from the 3:15 thread (one male and one female) also recently pb'd, all on minimal long runs.  Food for thought.

 

indeed. Perhaps P&D are not so wrong with their training schedules that I always found being too light on long runs ??

chickadee have you got a Spring marathon in mind?

I'm definitely having doubts about doing London now. Sunday was just a much nicer experience. I know there were hills to contend with but the lack of noise seems to suit me better.

Am thinking possibly Bungay or Milton Keynes? Thoughts on either anyone?

Chick- flying to Bilbao on Saturday morning, then have to get a bus shuttle to San Sebastian which takes about an hour.  Back on Monday morning.  I'm trying to get away with taking a day off on Monday...

Minni- I'm very much aware that no number of long runs would allow me to improve without the speedwork (and a lot of it) thrown in. I can run long forever (well not really, but you know what I mean) and never get any faster. I wonder if  it's more important to do many LSRs for those who naturally struggle with endurance, while we should really be concentrating on speed?

Not done either forever, but freemers knows Bungay and a few on here did MK last year.  I know what you mean about London but I can't help loving the razmataz.

Is the long run overrated?

x-post - totally agree Brolish. Those who are speedy but struggle with endurance (mostly men I hasten to add) definitely need the long runs.  When Shaggy (RIP) moved to Moz for coaching he was doing lots of long slow runs that he didn't particularly enjoy but it paid off when he finally got under 3:30, something that had taken him years to do.

[Is that ok to still mention Shaggy in conversation?  I still think of him as part of this thread and I think he would appreciate his training being used as a good example]

AA its taking me a long time to do all the calculations connected to ideal race weight....

Well I will tell you re long runs after Dubai marathon in January as I very much doubt if I'm going to get more than two 20+ milers in given my race and social schedule. I have always been in the 4 to 5 long runs camp but with the aerobic base most of us on here have coupled with experience its possible that 2 or 3 is sufficient. Unlike previous marathon campaigns this one has been far more about speedwork than long runs so i should be able to get a good feel for the alternative approaches.

I would love to do the BGR, but would need some serious training for that one, should be right up O4S's street. 

Forever - I really enjoyed Bungay. Two laps, the first half of each lap is undulating, nothing really steep but some of inclines go on a fair while. The second half is almost dead flat.  In the second lap you start to have the fast runners doing the HM come past you (they start 2 hours after the full) which is fun - although the speed you'll be doing it should be really near the end before anyone passes you, if at all! A really nice friendly event.  When you go through the half way point there are usually a load of the HM runners clapping everyone through, which is nice.

I agree VLM can be a bit much at times, but I do like all the build up to it!

I'm wondering on the long run front if a good strategy would be to spread them out more through the whole schedule, rather than the back end.  So aim to alternate each Sunday with a 20 (or more) and a 15-ish over a 10-12 week period before the taper. So I'd still get the same number in but it would give my body more time to recover from each one. In the past I've never done that because I've never felt able to do 20 miles until I'm a fair way into the schedule. But I think having done an autumn marathon I could do a 20 miler quite early on in the schedule.  Anyone tried that sort of strategy before?

Freemers thank you. I did the Bungay HM a few years ago but wondered how it felt as a full. Mmm will have a serious think about it.

The very first marathon I did was from a Hal Higdon schedule. He advocates alternate long runs as you suggested, 20 one week, drop back to 13/14 the next, then back to 20. I ran 3.45 using his schedule as a newish runner.

Free- haven't tried alternating them before.  Looking at my schedule I've been doing 20m right from the start and most weeks except when racing.  I've clocked up 9x 20+ (one of them 24) and 2x 18m.  So if it's all down to long runs I should be flying on Sunday- lol!

Amazing how different we all are.  I have no problems kocking out 20m right from the start but my speed goes completely after a few weeks of taking it easy.

Wow Brolish - you certainly deserve a good race! What time are you aiming for?

Simon - it would be good to try but risky.  I want every marathon to count in my ageing years.

Forever- it's still the elusive sub 3.30.