RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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20/11/2012 at 13:07

Ant - Belated congratulations on your half pb from the weekend

With regards to the "how many long runs debate", i'm certainly not as experienced a marathoner as some of you guys but for VLM 2010, i ran a 6-day schedule that incorporated 6 x 20+ long runs (all slow), broke down 10 days before the race (on a 4m recovery run), and subsequently ran 3.52. This year i followed a 5-day RW programme that only did 2 x 20 (1x slow, 10m slow/10m @ m.p) and 1 x 22 (11m slow/11m @ m.p) and subsequently felt fresh and ready and should've gone quicker than i did. Given how injury prone i am, i will definitely be doing similar, but possibly with longer mid-week tempo runs this time around.

Right... Now this is getting ridiculous... Being in another country (basking in the sun i'd wager) is NO excuse... COOKS... WHERE IS YOUR RACE REPORT!!!!!

20/11/2012 at 13:11

Hi all,

Hope you don't mind me joining in here. I have been regularly posting on the sub 3:15 thread since that's my aim for next year. However, I haven't been under 3:30 in recent years. My, current, training paces may be better aligned here and it's good to get different views.

I can see some already crossover to both. Hopefully, I can gain some more words of wisdom here, also!

20/11/2012 at 13:12
Chick - Can you take First defence when you've already got a cold, or only to prempt it?
20/11/2012 at 13:13

forever: doing Hamburg marathon on April 21 (same day as the VLM). I had a longish discussion with Mr. Chick who wasn't too pleased when I told him I wanted to continue marathoning. He thought I'd be done with it now that sub 3:30 is in the bag. Little does he now that AFTER the marathon is always BEFORE the marathon . Because he's a cyclist and wants us to do some bike stuff together over the summer which would conflict with my running. Not to keen on getting divorced so I decided I'd do a spring marathon this time around and focus on shorter races over summer/autumn, i. e. I can do my running mid-week and we do bike stuff at weekends.

Minni: of course it's ok to keep mentioning Shaggy. I still think about him loads and have conversations with him in my head when I run. He will always be part of our little community.

Bro: that's an insane number of long runs!

I'm still not sure what works for me. I hate speedwork and I don't enjoy it at all. I got sub 3:30 with no speedwork worth mentioning (those 3 or 4 P&D workouts are peanuts). But I did 6 x 22 and lots and lots of midweek longer runs, huge chunks of those at MP. But I ran my slow runs real slow (9 or 9:30 ish). Perhaps that was the key? They always say train slow to run fast . Anyway, I would freak if I didn't have plenty of 20 milers in my schedule!

20/11/2012 at 13:15
simon62w wrote (see)
Chick - Can you take First defence when you've already got a cold, or only to prempt it?

it won't hurt. I think it works best before the cold takes up residence but it sure won't do any harm if it's already there. Basically it's a nasal spray that fights the germs in your sinuses. You may be able to shake it quicker this way. Note: I'm no medical doctor, so if you die, it's not my fault

20/11/2012 at 13:22

DS2- welcome!

chickadeee wrote (see)

Bro: that's an insane number of long runs!

Chick- well I am a bit insane, you know. I've never been good with moderation... which seems to translate into my running and drinking habits.

 

20/11/2012 at 13:22

Blimey, lots to catch up.

(((chickadee))).. Can't race well everytime. High h/r, not well?

BarryB, great 10k, so close again, those pesky 8 seconds at 10k & marathon. Grr. I'm 12 secs off on 10k also, maybe next week.

Cooks great mara & PB. especially throwing up to do 3:19. Also Forever, great sub 3:15, off no specific training? ace.

Ommpa, good 10k and main thing, let the calf get strong.

KFC, exploding legs? hmmm. time for rest, and then some gym work. Its kept me injury free. RE: Edinburgh. Its a good course, first 3mi downhill, then flat.

Gazelle, yes, skipping autumn marathon, lots of speed work and those 7 club races Sept-Oct.. huge difference. Ultra was just for fun.

Ant, great time for St Neots. As minni says, your endurance better than you think, go for spring 3:20?

PS, looking at the thread spreadsheet, whats with Daren's marathon time? Cough. Minni, something to cheer you up?

Report on way about Saturday race, sunday did a hard mrt / high cardio circuit - included Band jump exercise - band around your waist from behind, works quads, hams & calfs so in future good maybe for Ommpa & kfc... think of Hulk jumping in Avengers movie then running backwards fast.. it was fun!
Had a massage yesterday and legs, ham & calf are sore... my massage lady described them as crinkly like bubble wrap. Not sure its the half or if I over did the "Hulk Smash" bit. Opps DOM Dom dommm

20/11/2012 at 13:32
Chick - Thanks, have you pm'd me the disclaimer form for me to sign ? Its ok I've got life cover, so my OH will have a great chrimbo if I pop my clogs.

Minni - you've got plenty of time to experiment with different training plans before you become really old I'm sure. P&D, Hadd, Furman, Hanson brothers, MIUAYGA ( make it up as you go along ). I think that was most peoples first training plan. Stick them all in a hat, and pick one out each year, and we could have a good laugh as you try to stick to the plan.
20/11/2012 at 13:34

Well done Ant - St Neots is a very quick course so I can well imagine you had thoughts of 1.30 after getting to the top of the hill 2nd time around! I spent Sunday morning wandering around the animal sanctuary in Trent Park funnily enough...

Forever - well done on Luton, that's an exceptional time! I was planning to do it until I got injured - would you recommend it for next year?

Cooks - great work in Valencia. You deal with heat much better than me judging by your time!

Bro - don't be put off by the coach journey from Bilbao to SS, it's not that hilly when you get there, honest! I think I remember you saying your OH was getting mildly annoyed with your marathon obsession? If he likes football, the bus station at Bilbao is right next to Atletico's ground so he'll get two in with the marathon at Real Sociedad's too. I'm dead jealous you're running it, I love that part of the world - conditions sound ideal and you shouldn't get a massive breeze off of the sea because the island in the middle of the cove breaks it up. Fingers crossed for you! 

My injury update is we're in silly season for work, so I've been out at events solidly for the past two weeks. Been drinking heavily, and standing on my feet all day, neither of which are good for recovery. Beginning to wonder when it will sort itself out, now up to 4 months and still counting... 

20/11/2012 at 13:46
chickadeee wrote (see)

 I had a longish discussion with Mr. Chick who wasn't too pleased when I told him I wanted to continue marathoning. He thought I'd be done with it now that sub 3:30 is in the bag. Little does he now tha t AFTER the marathon is always BEFORE the marathon .

lol!  They never get it, do they!

chickadeee wrote (see)

I'm still not sure what works for me. I hate speedwork and I don't enjoy it at all. I got sub 3:30 with no speedwork worth mentioning (those 3 or 4 P&D workouts are peanuts). But I did 6 x 22 and lots and lots of midweek longer runs, huge chunks of those at MP. But I ran my slow runs real slow (9 or 9:30 ish). Perhaps that was the key? They always say train slow to run fast . Anyway, I would freak if I didn't have plenty of 20 milers in my schedule!

I got my sub 3:30 off the P&D too but I knew that I wouldn't progress much more on it, which was why I opted for coaching.    On that front I'm finding its getting more interesting as time goes on.  I have been with Moz for 18 months now and I'm sure he is still learning a lot about me as a runner and setting schedules based on that.   I'm expecting my London build up to be a bit different from this year....

Redwood - keep the faith.  You'll get there. 

Why hello there DS2


 

 

 

 

20/11/2012 at 13:50
FRC - That leg session would suit those mad people thinking of doing the BGR.

Spoons - Just remind me, BGR is 42peaks, in 75miles, in 24hrs, in the Lakes. Imagine how many of O4S's flapjacks you'd get thru?
20/11/2012 at 14:03

Imagine if we did this with O4S ....   we'd all eat her dust!

20/11/2012 at 14:04

Hi and welcome, DS2 . Did I understand right that you ran sub 3:15 in your previous running life?

20/11/2012 at 14:17

DS2 - fancy seeing you here   You'll find we drink more on this thread

FRC - you noticed Daren's marathon PB then? We hardly ever mention that, honest 

Mile reps done. Didn't have very long this lunchtime, so only managed 3 reps, but they were all sub 7 and felt nice. Padded it out to 5 miles in total with recoveries and w/u, c/d.

20/11/2012 at 14:22
Minni wrote (see)

Simon - it would be good to try but risky.  I want every marathon to count in my ageing years.

 


Give me strength!!  On the long run debate, I did my PB [3.30.54] with no speedwork and no long road runs - just a few off-road ultras .  I was 44 so a number of the ladies here should be doing PBs over the next couple of years

Count me in for BGR - I have friends who have done it, but you need to know the route inside out, or do it with someone who does, to make sure you get within the time limit.  Not ideal for dodgy knees.....................BUT I'm prepared to provide bread pudding as well as flapjack!!

20/11/2012 at 14:23

Chick - I meant to say that your plan is what I always do - a spring marathon, an end of May 100 miler and then cycling all summer with short runs to keep everything ticking over.

20/11/2012 at 14:23

BGR? oh Bob Graham. Naaa. Band jump is more for speed, build legs up, not endurance.

So Daren's a bit of slacker on the marathon front, flat track bully?

Minni, hope you're feeling better.

20/11/2012 at 14:33
old4speed wrote (see)

Chick - I meant to say that your plan is what I always do - a spring marathon, an end of May 100 miler and then cycling all summer with short runs to keep everything ticking over.

easy peasy, just need to find a suitable end of May 100miler then

Work is booooring today

20/11/2012 at 14:39

Fill your afternoon with trying to work out how many calories you need a day Chick.  I've spent the last two hours trying to do it and got so confused I needed a bacon sarnie in the middle.....

20/11/2012 at 14:41

Hi All and welcome DS2-youve come to the right place

Minni-looks like youve turned the corner and recovery is on its way.

Interesting chat about LRs for a marathon and the differeing approaches varying from the conventional to the insane(Bro). Looking at my Liverpool record excluding the last two weeks taper period I ran 10 LRs covering 193 miles in total and averaging 19.3 . The Lrs built from 17 to 22 over a 12 week period. In addition I did 16 MLRs averaging 12.75 and included in this were 6 MP runs . My LRs and MLRs differed from my training for VLM in that my last 3 LRs were at a much  faster pace but not MP especially for the last 5-6 miles of each and there were more race pace specific runs. I felt that the last month before taper was much more race pace specific generally rather than just putting in the miles as I did for VLM . Not sure what to do for VLM as I fear that pushing it by more miles and more speed will result in injury and I just dont want to go through that again. I guess cross training with swimming and cycling and spinning will have to replace some of the recovery runs etc

Simon/Minni/Spoons- The idea of doing the BGR is just that for me -dont think Im tough enough nor could I run and carry all the flapjack Id need. The book inspired me to deal with my knee injury and do a few more miles

Just swam 2k and am sneezing etc again -will this end?

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