RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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20/11/2012 at 20:53
Gazelle - I was looking for a showerproof jacket a couple of months ago, but for roughly the same price I found this one: Montane lite-speed h2o, about ??50 depending on size colour. But it's fully waterproof, has a hood and weighs only 160g, lightest in the world apparently.
20/11/2012 at 20:57

Cheers Simon just added it to my list

20/11/2012 at 21:00

I have found one of the above reduced from £90 to £39.97 from go outdoors, Do I buy it now or keep it on my list? Decisions, Decisions..... it's less than 120g in my size

Edited: 20/11/2012 at 21:02
20/11/2012 at 21:20
Gazelle - Get it now. As sods law it will of gone, or gone up in price when you come to buy next week/month.
20/11/2012 at 21:30
I have the Montane factory near me so have 4 or 5 jackets. All samples. they are brilliant because they are light and windproof but not all are as waterproof as they claim.
20/11/2012 at 21:44

Hi DS2

busy on here today.

Did my first run in a week tonight. 4 x mile reps at HMP as my pre-Sunday tester. It started out badly and gradually got worse.

20/11/2012 at 21:58
Spoons - You were on the sick list just a couple of days ago, so I wouldn't of expected too much.

Minni - Apart from your Montane collection, what other jackets have you got, and have you tried your xc spikes yet?
20/11/2012 at 22:09

No Simon I've been too sick....   I took the dogs for a walk this evening and that's the first day I've been out the house since Saturday.  But, back to work tomorrow and still hopeful to do a 5 mile race on Saturday.

20/11/2012 at 23:08
Spoons-yes it's hard to keep up on here today! Can't beat a run that gets worse ...the next one can only get better as long as you have
Minni- still plenty of time to get better for Saturday. So what's the secret to running lean? I see Free has a running age of 12 ,clearly starvation is the way to gofer her. I do recognise the gains that can be made by losing weight though.
Free- thought we burnt 2000 calories just living. So is 200 extra enough for the training you do? I had one of those tests this time last year and according to the DR I was as fit as a 26 year old. Not sure who he was kidding!
Bro- not long to go . When you do you fly? Have you got a target race pac e you can share with us?
Simon- hope you've booked Bro on her flight club class . Pride of place in my jacket collection is my 2009 Boston Marathon jacket. My light weight jacket is from Aldi .it gets wet even when it's not raining. ...inside's that ?
Xmas- I need 2 pairs of Saucony omni 11 s for Xmas please plus something to assist my swims- I can't see the clock when doing intervals and lose count of laps. Any suggestions?
FRC- great report and outstanding result. Do you think that a race that is all flat can be more demanding physically than a rolling one as the same muscles keep getting hammered. What's next in your race list?
Barry- getting nervous yet? What pace are you looking to aim for?
DD- forget to congratulate that excellent 12k. Wondering how much a substitute for long runs your mega cycle mileage will be when you run that marathon.
10k on the TM done...looks like my calf is ok now. KFC - hope yours is too
20/11/2012 at 23:50
O4S - thanks for the hydration reminder, now making sure I'm drinking lots, if only to rule that one out.

Decided no running for at least a week. Boo.

FRC - nice report. That half time is a huge leap from breaking 21 not so long ago - you are riding the pb train!

DS2 - welcome

Minni - definitely fine to mention shaggy, with all the man flu about recently I've been reminded of him with a smile.

Chick - I don't see cycling as necessarily counterproductive to running - I think a good balance of both helps avoid injury, and I find I always perform better over long distances after a bike tour.

Long runs, hmm. I've done 2x20M once, but never more than 15M in my 6 other marathons. My weakness is fading in the last 6 miles. Pretty easy to see why...
Interesting to hear more about relative benefit of more long runs.
21/11/2012 at 07:38

KFC - you've ran 6 marathons never going over 15 miles in training?

Can I coach you? I think it would be pretty easy to get you smashing your marathon PB!

21/11/2012 at 08:19

Barry B/Spoons/KFC - thanks for the welcome! Barry - I know what you mean about how it is really a sub 3 thread but I think that's because most of the posters on there started with it as an aim and collectively they have made great strides forward. When I look on here much the same could be said.

To answer your question about my next marathon - Halstead (Essex and Suffolk Borders) in May. I have run this the last two years and it is a fantastic event - smallish (about 600 competitors) but brilliantly run. Next May will be my 10th marathon so hoping to do it justice! The last two attempts I've injured myself pretty badly doing other sports in the weeks before hand so this year I'm concentrating only on running and not taking the risk. I did get round inside 3:45 last year but hadn't run in almost 8 weeks beforehand after crashing my bike. Cycling this year is confined to the garage!

FRC - Excellent report & a fantastic performance. Quite right you should jump for joy! Everyone understands that feeling of PB'ing, especially such a big barrier and with such a huge improvement. Inspiring stuff!


21/11/2012 at 08:40

2old - the medical said I needed 1300 calories just to live (i.e. all my organs functioning, but not actually doing any activity of any sort), and 2200 for my lifestyle. It will be very dependent on your age/gender/weight etc, men generally need more than women for a start.  I think 2200 is probably a bit low for a peak 60 mile + week of running, as if I work on the rule of thumb that I burn 100 calories per mile that is an extra 6000 a week, which is not over 800 a day.  I need to read the report when they send it to me to understand it all properly!

For your swimming - for lap counting you can get these gadgets you wear on your fingers like a ring, and you press a button at the end of each lap, it just counts them for you.  If Cheerful Dave is lurking again he can tell you what they are called as I know he has one. Or google swimming lap counter should do the trick. CD might also be able to help on the not seeing the clock problem as his eyesight is pretty bad...can you get prescription goggles? Or just wear a waterproof watch? Contact lenses a bit risky I guess even if you have really good tight goggles.

KFC - no more than 15 miles  What was the reason for that - just hate the long runs? I don't think I'd ever dare do that!

Spoons - I see you are getting your excuses in early for Sunday . I'm going to do that too - my achilles is still a bit niggly, and it always hurts more when I run fast, so if it starts to annoy me on Sunday I'm backing right off the pace.  Hopefully the compression socks will work their magic and it won't come to that, but if it does then that will be the reason I run a 1.40 and not a 1.32

I'm after a new running jacket too - might pay a visit to Go Outdoors and look at those Montanes.

Rest day for me today.

21/11/2012 at 09:23

Minni - interesting reading on the long runs you posted up. I am doing my plan at the moment and have put 5 20s in there, I have tried to keep them apart, but its impossible with all the XC racing I am doing, so I have 20s on consecutive weeks twice. What I am doing different this year is not racing a HM in the build up. I think I have a pretty good idea of that from my autumn half. Maybe I need to get rid of a couple of 20s as well, food for thought

kfc - on your calf issue. Is it in the mid calf area - ie soleus. I have had problems with that when coming back from injury. It isn't really a tear or anything serious more like muscle spasms from overuse. I cleared it by massaging the soleus diligently until I have got rid of the tightness and pain.


21/11/2012 at 09:31

Morning everyone

Free- 2200 sounds very low to me.  I thougth 2000 is what an average woman needs (3000 for a man) without exercising... So with 60m per week of running on top of normal activity it doesn't sound right... But maybe I'm just trying to justify my very healthy appetite.  I have no idea how many calories I consume.

2Old- Glad to hear the calf is ok. I'm flying on Saturday morning unfortunately Easyjet this time so no chance for an upgrade. We've agreed with Moz to go for 3:28 so 7:56mm pace (or 4:56m/km).  If it hadn't been for the NY fiasco and how it interrupted my training I would be tempted to go a bit faster but as it is I'll see how I feel.  I really need a good marathon at this stage so probably the worst thing I can do is go off too fast and blow it.

I don't own a running jacket.  Usually just make peace with getting soaked unless it's freezing but it doesn't really get that cold where I am. I tend to get too hot if I wear anything more than a long sleeved running top.

Rest day here as well.

21/11/2012 at 09:41

One more question about manual lapping... What do you display on your main screen other than average lap time? I was thinking average lap pace (to keep an eye on in case I miss a km marker until I get to the next one). What else? Lap distance maybe to give me an idea how far I am from the next km marker?

21/11/2012 at 10:53

Bro sorry can't help with the manual lapping. I always press start and then forget about it. I did nearly make a fatal error on Sunday and press stop when I made a pit stop though! Really hope you smash that sub 3.30 !!

Redwood here's a Garmin trace that I've stolen from the Luton thread

Andrew Fuller 2 wrote (see)

Thanks to whoever it was who posted the Elevation chart earlier in the thread. I have just downloaded my data from the race and thought I would pop up an image of the Elevation output from my Garmin that people may find helpful in future years:

 Edit: Doesn't seem to be displaying very well, anyone any ideas on how to improve it?




As you can see it's not flat but really isn't as bad as it looks.

My thoughts on the race are it is super friendly and very well oraganised. With three laps you know exactly what's to come and can pace yourself accordingly. Very encouraging marshals and some nice pockets of support that feels very personal.

On Sunday the conditions were perfect but there is an off road section that could be tricky if the weather is bad. I didn't find the hills a problem but I have done a lot of hilly races and runs this year. A lot of people really struggled on the last hill. There is a very steep downhill section too which I actually found more challenging.

It's not a race I would choose if I was after a pb but I would do it again absolutely! 


21/11/2012 at 11:18

KFC-I admire your confidence running marathons after 2 ,20 milers. I would be wracked with so much self doubt I would will myself to fail. Maybe thats largely whats its all about -self belief. In all probability the 2  20 miler approach is fine  as long as you also do some 17 /18 milers and some of the LRs are run at MP.

AntP- I will take on board your advice re the soleus too.Its not any easy area to massage.How do you go about it?Re LRs how are you planning to build up to them? Over what period of time?

DS2- sorry I may have missed it but what are your Marathon HM and 10k pbs and how recent? Having done 10 marathons you are clearly very experienced.

Bro-pity about the upgrade but at least its a short flight. That looks a very sensible plan and hopefully you will have some resrves left to up it a bit in the last few miles. Is it a flat /rolling or undulating course?Any big hills?


Edited: 21/11/2012 at 11:20
21/11/2012 at 11:28

2Old- according to the website it's flat but I don't know anyone who has done it to confirm.

21/11/2012 at 11:34

KFC:  I wonder what stellar times you'd run if you chucked a few more long runs in ...

FRC: Wow, amazing consistency in your pacing. Great report! I think I'd like to run on a race track - the name as such has already a speed feel to it

Brolish wrote (see)

One more question about manual lapping... What do you display on your main screen other than average lap time? I was thinking average lap pace (to keep an eye on in case I miss a km marker until I get to the next one). What else? Lap distance maybe to give me an idea how far I am from the next km marker?

I had overall time, current lap time and average lap time on mine. The current lap time helps with the next km marker, i. e. once you get to 4:30ish you know it should be coming soon. Sensible pacing plan with 7:56. I think of 3:30 as a huge mental barrier and it's better to run a sensible marathon and smash this barrier. After that the world is your oyster and you can try a riskier pacing strategy (at least that's what I am intending to do in April )

DS2: I did Halstead once in '09 and loved it. Lovely little event, very friendly too. Although the hills totally killed me on the second lap . It was my F*man year which explains why I was struggling

10 miles done this morning. Very windy again.

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