RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

23,101 to 23,120 of 39,665 messages
21/11/2012 at 08:40

2old - the medical said I needed 1300 calories just to live (i.e. all my organs functioning, but not actually doing any activity of any sort), and 2200 for my lifestyle. It will be very dependent on your age/gender/weight etc, men generally need more than women for a start.  I think 2200 is probably a bit low for a peak 60 mile + week of running, as if I work on the rule of thumb that I burn 100 calories per mile that is an extra 6000 a week, which is not over 800 a day.  I need to read the report when they send it to me to understand it all properly!

For your swimming - for lap counting you can get these gadgets you wear on your fingers like a ring, and you press a button at the end of each lap, it just counts them for you.  If Cheerful Dave is lurking again he can tell you what they are called as I know he has one. Or google swimming lap counter should do the trick. CD might also be able to help on the not seeing the clock problem as his eyesight is pretty bad...can you get prescription goggles? Or just wear a waterproof watch? Contact lenses a bit risky I guess even if you have really good tight goggles.

KFC - no more than 15 miles  What was the reason for that - just hate the long runs? I don't think I'd ever dare do that!

Spoons - I see you are getting your excuses in early for Sunday . I'm going to do that too - my achilles is still a bit niggly, and it always hurts more when I run fast, so if it starts to annoy me on Sunday I'm backing right off the pace.  Hopefully the compression socks will work their magic and it won't come to that, but if it does then that will be the reason I run a 1.40 and not a 1.32

I'm after a new running jacket too - might pay a visit to Go Outdoors and look at those Montanes.

Rest day for me today.

21/11/2012 at 09:23

Minni - interesting reading on the long runs you posted up. I am doing my plan at the moment and have put 5 20s in there, I have tried to keep them apart, but its impossible with all the XC racing I am doing, so I have 20s on consecutive weeks twice. What I am doing different this year is not racing a HM in the build up. I think I have a pretty good idea of that from my autumn half. Maybe I need to get rid of a couple of 20s as well, food for thought

kfc - on your calf issue. Is it in the mid calf area - ie soleus. I have had problems with that when coming back from injury. It isn't really a tear or anything serious more like muscle spasms from overuse. I cleared it by massaging the soleus diligently until I have got rid of the tightness and pain.


21/11/2012 at 09:31

Morning everyone

Free- 2200 sounds very low to me.  I thougth 2000 is what an average woman needs (3000 for a man) without exercising... So with 60m per week of running on top of normal activity it doesn't sound right... But maybe I'm just trying to justify my very healthy appetite.  I have no idea how many calories I consume.

2Old- Glad to hear the calf is ok. I'm flying on Saturday morning unfortunately Easyjet this time so no chance for an upgrade. We've agreed with Moz to go for 3:28 so 7:56mm pace (or 4:56m/km).  If it hadn't been for the NY fiasco and how it interrupted my training I would be tempted to go a bit faster but as it is I'll see how I feel.  I really need a good marathon at this stage so probably the worst thing I can do is go off too fast and blow it.

I don't own a running jacket.  Usually just make peace with getting soaked unless it's freezing but it doesn't really get that cold where I am. I tend to get too hot if I wear anything more than a long sleeved running top.

Rest day here as well.

21/11/2012 at 09:41

One more question about manual lapping... What do you display on your main screen other than average lap time? I was thinking average lap pace (to keep an eye on in case I miss a km marker until I get to the next one). What else? Lap distance maybe to give me an idea how far I am from the next km marker?

21/11/2012 at 10:53

Bro sorry can't help with the manual lapping. I always press start and then forget about it. I did nearly make a fatal error on Sunday and press stop when I made a pit stop though! Really hope you smash that sub 3.30 !!

Redwood here's a Garmin trace that I've stolen from the Luton thread

Andrew Fuller 2 wrote (see)

Thanks to whoever it was who posted the Elevation chart earlier in the thread. I have just downloaded my data from the race and thought I would pop up an image of the Elevation output from my Garmin that people may find helpful in future years:

 Edit: Doesn't seem to be displaying very well, anyone any ideas on how to improve it?




As you can see it's not flat but really isn't as bad as it looks.

My thoughts on the race are it is super friendly and very well oraganised. With three laps you know exactly what's to come and can pace yourself accordingly. Very encouraging marshals and some nice pockets of support that feels very personal.

On Sunday the conditions were perfect but there is an off road section that could be tricky if the weather is bad. I didn't find the hills a problem but I have done a lot of hilly races and runs this year. A lot of people really struggled on the last hill. There is a very steep downhill section too which I actually found more challenging.

It's not a race I would choose if I was after a pb but I would do it again absolutely! 


21/11/2012 at 11:18

KFC-I admire your confidence running marathons after 2 ,20 milers. I would be wracked with so much self doubt I would will myself to fail. Maybe thats largely whats its all about -self belief. In all probability the 2  20 miler approach is fine  as long as you also do some 17 /18 milers and some of the LRs are run at MP.

AntP- I will take on board your advice re the soleus too.Its not any easy area to massage.How do you go about it?Re LRs how are you planning to build up to them? Over what period of time?

DS2- sorry I may have missed it but what are your Marathon HM and 10k pbs and how recent? Having done 10 marathons you are clearly very experienced.

Bro-pity about the upgrade but at least its a short flight. That looks a very sensible plan and hopefully you will have some resrves left to up it a bit in the last few miles. Is it a flat /rolling or undulating course?Any big hills?


Edited: 21/11/2012 at 11:20
21/11/2012 at 11:28

2Old- according to the website it's flat but I don't know anyone who has done it to confirm.

21/11/2012 at 11:34

KFC:  I wonder what stellar times you'd run if you chucked a few more long runs in ...

FRC: Wow, amazing consistency in your pacing. Great report! I think I'd like to run on a race track - the name as such has already a speed feel to it

Brolish wrote (see)

One more question about manual lapping... What do you display on your main screen other than average lap time? I was thinking average lap pace (to keep an eye on in case I miss a km marker until I get to the next one). What else? Lap distance maybe to give me an idea how far I am from the next km marker?

I had overall time, current lap time and average lap time on mine. The current lap time helps with the next km marker, i. e. once you get to 4:30ish you know it should be coming soon. Sensible pacing plan with 7:56. I think of 3:30 as a huge mental barrier and it's better to run a sensible marathon and smash this barrier. After that the world is your oyster and you can try a riskier pacing strategy (at least that's what I am intending to do in April )

DS2: I did Halstead once in '09 and loved it. Lovely little event, very friendly too. Although the hills totally killed me on the second lap . It was my F*man year which explains why I was struggling

10 miles done this morning. Very windy again.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
21/11/2012 at 11:47
2old: for counting swim laps I use a sportcount chrono, it fits on a finger and you just touch a button at the end of each lap to count them and get a time at the end. There are other more sophisticated options including the new garmin swim that detect the change of direction and count lengths that way. For goggles I use aqua sphere eagle, for which corrective lenses are available: buy one lens to suit each eye and replace the original ones. In races though I use daily disposable contacts with regular goggles with no problem.
21/11/2012 at 11:57

2old - I sit with my leg across the other. i.e. left ankle on right knee and v.v. That should keep the soleus relaxed and then i dig in my calf with my thumbs to find the muscle and roll it against the bone. Also can use tennis or golf ball. Working it with a roller works well as well. roll them with your toes pointed forward

21/11/2012 at 13:25

So busy.   Remind me in future that I don't have time to be ill.

21/11/2012 at 13:53
Bro - When are you flying out? Yes I did try and get hold of Stelios Haji-Ioannou, but he didn't return my calls, so no upgrade this time.
Re garmin, I would have your target ave pace as your main display on the 1st screen. Other stats are secondary, have a great time, with no natural disasters this time lol.
21/11/2012 at 13:55

Forever - thanks very much for the info! I live not too far from there so have an idea about what the hills are like and I would tend to agree. I think hills are a very individual subject - one man's hill is another man's slight incline, it just depends where you live and train! I much prefer smaller races so will definitely enter next year...

Bro - I obviously haven't done SS but I do know that the bit from the stadium down to the sea front, and then along the front is pancake flat, but not sure about the rest. Last time I went I stayed over on the tunnel side, but that was up a big hill so don't know how they get around that bit keeping it flat!

Barry - plan is to keep resting until I'm 100% sure it's better. It's very annoying as pain keeps shifting around. I'm currently in a period of jarring/clicking/crunching which basically wakes me up every time I turn in the night, which is far from ideal as I'm a walking zombie at the minute. Deep down I know it is on the mend though, so will probably play cautious up to Christmas and view anything before then as a bonus

21/11/2012 at 13:59
For you swimmers, something for your Christmas list: last Christmas I bought my sister in law an mp3 for swimming. It lies on you cheekbone and you can't hear anything when out the water but as soon as you put your head in the sound is amazing. I can't remember the name of it now but can look it up. No cheap - about ??100 but worth it if you spend hours in the water. Not long after Christmas she was forced to come clean and admit that she only swims on her back since she doesn't like getting her face wet. I wasn't best pleased!
21/11/2012 at 14:48

Minni-good to see you got back to work which means one thing:you'll race this weekend if you get through your work. Not sure about the MP3 for swimming having given it up for running. Anyway Im too busy concentrating on the mulitude of technique points that are supposed to make me quicker and wouldnt want to be  distracted.

Forever-that elevation chart makes.the race look like the Dubai skyline .What is the net height of that hill?

Red-youre right to sit tight now and continue to be patient to avoid setting yourself back but hopefully the time for some active recovery will soon come

CD-thanks for the advice. Do you have to tap the finger device at each end of the pool? I use disposables in races and open water like you but was warned off doing it in a pool where the bulk of my swimming takes place.

Simon-couldnt you hack into the Easyjet computer to at least guarantee Bro the wider seats by the window? Not too much to expect really.

Ant-I will now go and annoy my OH and friends and do that massage method whenever and whereever Im sat down

Nice lunchtime run-cool but dry-at just under MP-9.2miles @average 7.21mm.

21/11/2012 at 15:04
simon62w wrote (see)
Bro - When are you flying out? Yes I did try and get hold of Stelios Haji-Ioannou, but he didn't return my calls, so no upgrade this time.

Lol Simon... Thanks for trying although it's not good enough. I got used to travelling in style, you know! What is a girl to do now? Flying out on Saturday.

Red- I refuse to worry about the hills, all reviews say flat and fast. Trying to avoid the hills is probably the reason the route laps almost three times around the city centre....

2Old- sounds like a nice run

21/11/2012 at 16:08

Cool but dry???????

Come and help me finish my ark - I can only take two runners...............

21/11/2012 at 16:16

O4S-dont need an Ark here we live on a hill.Come global warming we will have a beach at the bottom of our garden.Simon better buy a boat or join you as he could even be below see level.

21/11/2012 at 17:01
2old, re the swimming. Im thinking of getting a Garmin 910 for ultra duties. Can also monitor swimming even indoors, stroke rate, turns. ??250 but I was going to share mine with club tri pals, one was my gym & PT till last year. She got me & my old legs working again so owe her.??Rolling & flat courses? Not sure. My legs are more sore since half than marathon or ultra. Next race 10k in Dec 2nd now, or might do cheeky ultra.

Gazelle, apologies, I didn't know you lived nearby. Sorree. Bet you are doing loads of mileage hence club result so whats next target?

KFC, yes riding PB "train" since May, every distance PB-ed, but not overnight, see above, just over 2 years ago, I was struggling to do one slow run??a week, limping for 1-2 days after. Huge leaps this year but 6 months spent then building up body, and since explains pay??off.

DS2 welcome ! Tell us more. Minni, how are you feeling?

Shaggy suggested last time 5 x 20s for me, which I did over 8-9 weeks with kickbacks. Planning similar for VLM, maybe even 6 or 7 but including ultra training in that, so mid December to March. Endurance Dec to Feb then speed Feb to March, April taper.

Oh, described as most improved runner of year at club??last night by coach. Lots have helped me so was nice!??Glad they can't see me now, had lunch, now on train to London and have scoffed a yorkie, Twix & fruit cake. Wine gums last night. Starving the last few days.

Brol & Barry. Good luck both, but lots to Brol. This weekend is yours.
Brol??think you will be very popular if so few women running??.??

My setup on my 405, manual lap style.??
Main screen, time, distance, last lap - you forget and want to check, very handy.??Second screen, current pace, lap pace. If you use it, virtual partner, set to 7.56 miles per hour = 3:28 I think. Check occasionally.??My races have gone perfect since screens set like this.
I posted a link to dc rainmaker about
21/11/2012 at 17:02
Edited: 21/11/2012 at 17:03
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