RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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06/12/2012 at 21:13
SBC, what's a matter with your mum, I hope she is ok?
I hope the cider works as well for you as it did for me, and if not least it's a nice drink!

HHH i agree with the others, prob not best to race a half two weeks before a marathon (although I was daft enough to think about doing Paris, if I get through, then VLM two weeks later....more I think about it, the more I think it will destroy me)

Brolish we hopefully get to find out next Thursday. Katie said that they have to get all the votes in (which now closes mid day next Wednesday) and then decide between them whose going through. I'm so nervous already, I only managed 4 hours sleep last night....the anticipation of this week may destroy me!

Gazelle, Brolish, I would love to go on a skiing holiday but I'm so scared of breaking something and not being able to run. I really do think I would be a nightmare to live with if I didn't get out to run.

Just wondering what do you all think about a 22 mile training run..too much?

Spoons, that was my next question. Normally I rest the day before a long run but I did my first track session with knavesmires (although it ended up being on the grass at the side of the track due to ice) tonight, do you reckon I can still do my long run tomorrow?
06/12/2012 at 22:16

SO4 - don't bother with 22, 30 miles of mud will do you much more good

Also got my votes in today and have had a nice lazy evening before seeing the Doc tomorrow.  BA actually confessed to being worried about me [in fairness he worries about me all the time but only about what I might do next] and wouldn't let me cycle to work in the sub-zero temperatures.  This meant I had to run!!  In the end I compromised and took the car to within a couple of miles of the office where I could park free of charge.  They don't call me Scrooge for nothing...............

Spoons - tell the CNBA fiary to budge up and we can make it a foursome

06/12/2012 at 22:33

SO4 - do the long run and run it nice and slowly (speed of chat)

40 minutes of hills tonight

06/12/2012 at 23:24
Haha, I do like to get muddy!

Thanks Spoons....that's sorted my plans out for tomorrow now. Think I would be lost without my Friday long run, just hoping the weathers not to bad!

I enjoy hills......after I've finished!
07/12/2012 at 09:09
Car broke down last night and have had to get it sorted this morning. It's sleet wind and rain outside and the CNBA fairy has moved in. Not sure if my long run is gonna happen.
07/12/2012 at 09:17

Morning all,

Sarah - I think 22 miles is a good idea, as it gets you close to the time you'll actually be spending on your feet in a marathon. I'm a long run fan - for my last one I did 2 x 20, 2 x 21, 1 x 22 and 1 x 23.  But I limited my chances by not putting any PMP into those runs - in fact not really any PCTMP either. I'll be focusing more on that this time around, which I should be able to do as I have three 20 mile races in my build up and I always find it easier to run a little quicker in a race. I still intend to do my last LSR as a 3.15 "time on feet" run, which should work out as about 23 miles. I'm also planning on putting 20 miles into my schedule earlier, so that I can alternate with shorter LSRs, so do 20/15/20/15 etc. I think that way I can make sure I have plenty of recovery. We'll see how successful that is!

My run yesterday was a bit shortened as I ran out of time - got 5 miles in though which is enough. I'm working at home today and should be able to do a few more than that. I'm doing by long run tomorrow morning (16 or 17 depending on whether I decide to take a little detour). Then I'm off to visit Cheerful Dave and other family for a pre-Christmas get together for the rest of the weekend. I'm planning on running the route of the Epsom 10 on Sunday morning - undulating route over Epsom Downs.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
07/12/2012 at 09:32

It's not a 'pre-Christmas get together', it's a training camp

I was thinking of something close to that route on Sunday too.  Might be an early start though.

07/12/2012 at 09:40

CD - I hope CD junior is running Parkrun tomorrow to try and reclaim his title of "2nd fastest Parkrunner in the family"?

Mr Zuvai    pirate
07/12/2012 at 10:22

Morning All,

Happy Friday!!!!

Im ticking along nicely with the pre-program! although no running yesterday as i practically got knocked out at work!  i went to activate the security door with my pass around my neck, as i lent forward someone came out the door at speed with the door striking me flush on the foor head! i looked suitably silly flat on my back surrounded by people with a perfect door line running down my forehead! nice egg there today!

Anybody from the forum going to be a mentor for the forum 6? Spoons again perhaps? - i thought you where great for pottermis last year!

Mr Zuvai    pirate
07/12/2012 at 10:24

PS - i love the energy these forums get at this time of year

07/12/2012 at 11:25

Ouch, Mr. Z

Mum is on the mend, thanks for all your concerns.  I think she overdid the sauna and then probably got up to quick and passed out. They kept monitoring her heart rate and blood pressure and all that in hospital and it was all fine so she was discharged yesterday morning.

Gazelle/O4S: love the threesome / foursome with the CNBA fairy! 

Ant: more speed work on top of the PMP, LT and interval work may be too much. I'd say do one or the other - else there won't be enough time left for the all important sloooow miles to build your aerobic engine, as Spoons said (Spoons' coach last year never heard of this apparently ). Also, too many speedy miles are a recipe for injuries. Be careful. 

Oompa: P&D schedules rock. I do the same: 5-6 22 milers work a treat. I love those long runs - they are my absolute favourite session

DD: hope you feel better and managed a decent race. 

I have a 10k on Sunday and the forecast says black ice . If that's the case I reckon they will cancel it. No way I want to risk another tumble. My wounds are at the scab-picking stage now. Almost as good as blister popping !

Sarah: 22 is better than 20 IMHO ...  it may well be a psychological thing because if you manage 22 in training surely you can do 4 more on race day. Quite a few like doing a 23 or 24 miler as their longest run. I tried this twice and each time came down with a cold so I draw the line at 22. Experimenting is the only way to find out what works and what doesn't. The 26.2 Challenge is a great thing but I really don't envy you in terms of the stress that it causes.  In case you were wondering: O4S is our resident ultra nutter who thinks marathons are for wimps and hardly worth getting changed for ... That woman is amazing.

O4S: hope the doc finds out what's wrong - you will probably end up on ATBs ... 

AA: bummer about the car

10.5 freeeeeezing cold miles this morning. We just got a deal at work to join FitnessFirst at a discounted rate and I am tempted. It will mean running on the treadie, which I loathe, but on the other hand it'd be nice not to freeze to death for once. And I could do some spinning classes again. Still undecided ...

07/12/2012 at 11:28

Ant -  Your plan sounds similar to the Hanson Plan (MMM Bop) which was featured in RW a few months ago, the main idea was running 16 miles at MP or close to it on tired legs from training to simulate the last 16 miles of a mara.  I've run maras on less than 5 20's before,mainly due to injury, and everything has been going really well until 20 miles than I have struggled.  I did a couple of 24's last campaign and definately helped turning the training around.

Oompa -  I raced Cricklade HM 2 weeks before Abo this year and I PB'd at Abo so it did me no harm but then again maybe cost me my 8 seconds.

10 miles for me this morning, not going to say the avg pace as Minni will tell me off, but did n't look at the Garmin once and it felt comfortable.



07/12/2012 at 11:40

Talking of Garmins, BarryB - my replacement arrived yesterday. Very happy I don't have to run naked anymore

Question to our resident Garmin expert Simon: it won't download on my computer - do you think I have to de-install and re-install? I had a 405CX with ANT Stick before but send the whole lot back and got the 410 complete with a new ANT Stick. Pairing is enabled. But it won't even when I say Force Send.

07/12/2012 at 11:48

Hi all - lots of interesting feedback on my plan - cheers. 

Minni - the 16s are basically the vehicle for the PMP work - so the long runs which are not 20s, I may mix them up a bit more as in poss some 14s and some 18s for example. I'm still planning the latter stages.

Chick - the speedwork is "just" the intervals, LT work and PMP sessions. Nothing more than that - the rest will all be Easy and Recovery runs. I really lost speed last year by neglecting that in my plan - which is partly why I am removing the focus from a devotion to getting 5 x 20s in

Barry - yeah i hear you about the struggling in the later stages - but the question really is whether putting in more 20s will help prevent that or doing more PMP runs. I did the former this year, will try the latter next year.

07/12/2012 at 11:49


07/12/2012 at 11:52

PS - a forgot to mention the medium long run - doing one of those every week in the 10-12 mile range in addition to the LR

07/12/2012 at 12:27


Have you been shunned by Asics?

Stuck in a training rut?

Got a marathon place and can only run round the block??

Busy busy busy and no time to train??

I have six lovely mentors all lined up and chomping at their Mizunos to get involved

All you have to do is to tell us why you should be given the prize of the millenium


Should not threaten to harm small animals
Should not send people to sleep or need a screen break

It will contain your hopes for a marathon time
It will contain your marathon entry confirmed
It will contain a brief running history of recent times and pb's

We would love to hear all about YOU, strengths, weaknesses and limitations


This thread will close on Monday 17th December and then Kittenkat and her esteemed Adjudicator(s) will cogitate the pitches and we will then announce the LUCKY SIX on Christmas Eve

Asics 6??  As they said on Channel 4 ... thanks for the warm up    

Click on the link below to be taken to the pitching page.....

Edited: 07/12/2012 at 12:28
07/12/2012 at 13:04

chic, did you force pairing on both the garmin and on the ant agent on the computer?

usually works. shouldn't have to de-install.

Sarah, I did a 24-25 mile fell trail run as one of my 5 x 20mi and fine, and similar suggestion to Spoons nearly all long runs over 16 miles were slowish pace 8:30-9:30, mostly trail with some hills so big advantage you can't force the pace and go too fast. Occasionally a fast last mile or two on the road just to remind the legs. Only run I did at PMP or lower was the last one 4 weeks before the marathon, a 20 mile road event with hills in the middle and even then Shaggy said only first 5-7 & last 5-7 miles at that pace.  Rest of week, a medium run of 10-12 mi, and a speed session.

Everyone is different though, in terms of response, endurance. My first 20 miler will be soon with ultra coming up before VLM.

10 miles yesterday in the pouring rain but legs tired.. rest today, possibly doing XC tomorrow and then a likely tired leg 17-18 on Sunday. Good weekend all.

07/12/2012 at 13:08

you da man, FRC!

That was it - the pairing thingie was disabled on my computer. Thanks!!

07/12/2012 at 13:18

Mr Z - Hope you recovery quickly from your work mishap, you could of played  it up, gone to A & E and had a couple of weeks off over chrimbo, perfect.

Chick - I'm stuck at work, but as FRC says, you need to go into settings , and make sure it says 'enabled' on the actual watch. Then if you go back to the computer and right click on the Ant ( or as I call it the Mickey Mouse) symbol, and look for devices, or force pair, and hopefully it should then find it.

Minni - Who are the 6 mentors?

Well done everyone doing 10milers this morning/last night. I plan to go out for a tempo run this evening.

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