RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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15/01/2011 at 22:01

Hi Knight Rider!  Good to see you over here.  I have to admit I prefer the tarmac too but 'road' running is a swear word around there since we're surrounded by hills and fells.  However, I have done some 'deals'...  I will run some fell races (doing one tomorrow) in return for the fell runners doing some of my mid runs with me on the road.  This is helping get my mid-long run paces up since they are faster than me.  So far its working well.  

Dubai Dave wrote (see)

I also lurk on the 3-15 thread from time to time, not that I have many aspirations to reach sub 3-15 anymore, still would like to be sub 3 age graded though, I have been so close so often!

What do you mean by sub 3 age graded, DD?

Kiwi - well done on today's session.  How did you feel at the end, tired or fired up?  Good weekend's running  with the XCountry tomorrow.

My long run should be 16 but I'm swapping that with the 12mile fell race......

Dubai Dave    pirate
16/01/2011 at 05:53

Minni: Being a old git I age grade my results back to a 30 year old ( The point at which you begin to decline) to check myself against the young studs in the club and to check that I'm still as good as I was 20 years ago!  You can find a age grading calculater here Age Grading.

Using my 10K times I'm actually better than I was at 29.

 Good luck with the fell race, hope its not pouring down!

Dubai Dave    pirate
16/01/2011 at 05:56
Forgot to mention that I want a age graded time which is sub 3 hours for the marathon, my definition of a decent male club runner has always been sub 60 for 10 miles, sub 3 hours for a marathon. Well I just sneak under the first age graded!
16/01/2011 at 08:43
Minni - i felt really fired up after yesterday's run, tired for the rest of the day tho (but that's normal for me a long run)
Good luck for your fell race!
16/01/2011 at 12:39

kiwi - that run souds really good. I'm awful at upping during a run. Hope you feel better today.

I did my 5x1200s today. Haven't done any speed work for a few weeks because of my chest an I found this hard today.

37 miles for the week - longest for ages .

Hope your fell race goes well Minni

16/01/2011 at 17:13

I like your thinking DD  and I like the age grading calculator - it tells me if I was 20 I would be running a 3.23 marathon. But, I'm not 20.....

Fell race....OMG. I'd got all the gear dug out - fell shoes, icebreaker socks, bandana.  I was keen to get the look of a fell run in order to get the feel of a fell runner. Unfortunately I was still about 5 stone overweight - these guys are skinny! I was feeling very nervous at the start line and was most worried about getting lost.  The run was in the Northumberland National Park (better known recently as Raoul Moat country), and I knew some of it was through woods. Because I follow my feet I am prone to going in the wrong direction.   However, this didn't prove a problem because I ran a lot of it with someone who had done it before, so I followed him!  The total ascent was 2500 ft and this was in the first 7 miles.  Some of it was runnable but some had to be walked on stoney paths.  The route then evened out on what what would have been a nice 2 miles stretch but it was flooded from the melting snow.  Therefore, it was 2 miles of knee deep water and mud with lots of heather thrown in for good measure. I fell a couple of times and was pleased when I say a trickly of blood mixed with the mud. Yes, now I've got the look!!!  The last two and a bit miles were downhill.  Again, some of this on stoney paths which slowed up the pace but finally I got a couple of miles at a decent pace at the end (8.33; 7.34).  I had looked at past times and reckoned if I finished in about 2 hours I'd be happy. Finish time 2:02. Job done.  And I got a prize but not sure what it was for (3rd F40 I think). 

Give me the road any day!

16/01/2011 at 17:32

Well done Minni, what a brilliant run!  I take my hat off to you running up mountains, you must be so fit!! Sounds like a nightmare to me, hills are not my friend! 

Did a very muddy 4.5 miles cross-country today, felt surprisingly good after yesterday's long run.

Rest day tomorrow       

Dubai Dave    pirate
16/01/2011 at 17:47
Minni: fantastic, as you say job done, we like prizes!
16/01/2011 at 18:02
Brilliant Minni. Was your prize beer? It usually is in fell races.
16/01/2011 at 18:02
It was a bag of Aero bubbles - the beer had been snapped up by the whippets!
Edited: 16/01/2011 at 18:03
16/01/2011 at 18:03
Even better
16/01/2011 at 20:55
Great stuff Minni. 2 miles of knee deep water doesn't sound like fun. It might have been easier to swim it.
16/01/2011 at 21:20

Well done Minni, sounds like a tough race and nice to win something. I don't think I could ever do a fell race as I'm scared of downhills!

AA I'm envious of how quickly you're getting back into things. I've had around 4 weeks of not being able to do anything thanks to back to back flus/bad colds. Ventured out for a slow 2.5 miles on Thurs and struggled which was a rude awakening.   However managed 3 miles today which went a  bit better so now just aiming to run frequently so that I can build back up the distance.

 Plan had been to try to get a half marathon PB this spring before attempting another marathon in the autumn but now I think I'll treat the half as a test of where I've managed to get my fitness back up to without expecting a PB.

16/01/2011 at 22:49
Mr Spoons wrote (see)
Great stuff Minni. 2 miles of knee deep water doesn't sound like fun. It might have been easier to swim it.

 You had a similar run yourself?

BecsA -  great to see you back.  A spell off for illness gives your muscles a chance to recover and repair so they will be fresh when you start again (that's what I always tell myself!). I'm sure you'll be back in sooner than you think if you keep building it up slowly.   Which half and marathon are you looking at? And what is your half pb?

Kiwi - I'm no fell runner!  I pretend to be sometimes but I find it really hard.  I always finish further up the field in road races than fell. Well done on your xcountry, especially after yesterday. 

What does the week have in store?  For me, its a slightly easier one on the P&D, which is good for the half on Sunday.   DD has a marathon on Friday.  

Dubai Dave    pirate
17/01/2011 at 04:28

Morning All

BecsA: Four weeks out is quite a longtime as it is reckoned that you start to lose fitness after 96 hours on inactivity so don't expect too much too soon, however on the other hand you will probably get back to where you were quicker than you expect. A couple of years ago I was out for 4 weeks with pneumonia and ran  a marathon PB 7 weeks after resuming running, so all is not lost!

Minni: Fell runner or not I think you did better than I would have done over that sort of terrain, its the downhills that get me in fell races, the whippets fly by me as they throw them selves down the hillside. I'm never happier than when a race has more up than down. Enjoy your rest day!

17/01/2011 at 12:29
Minni - mind was kenn deep mud, the thick clay variety
17/01/2011 at 20:19
Minni wrote (see)

BecsA -  great to see you back.  A spell off for illness gives your muscles a chance to recover and repair so they will be fresh when you start again (that's what I always tell myself!). I'm sure you'll be back in sooner than you think if you keep building it up slowly.   Which half and marathon are you looking at? And what is your half pb?

I'm just quite glad to be running again, even if it takes a while to build it back up. I was looking enviously at people out running when I was out of action. It's made me appreciate it more.

I entered Reading half, but I've not thought about the marathon yet as I wanted to use the half to get up to a good level of fitness before starting a marathon campaign. My half PB is 1:48 - I'm slower than you and trying to get a 3:45 marathon but learning lots from your journey. Which half are you running on Sunday (sorry if you've said already and I've missed it) and what are you aiming for?

17/01/2011 at 22:23

BecsA, I did my first marathon in 3.43 and my half pb then was 1.48.   I'm doing the Brass Monkey in York.  I haven't thought about a target time yet (I'll do that in the car on the way down!).  I ran 1.40 in October and I'm hoping to knock some time off that but we'll see.

I did a 2.5 mile recovery run today before my monthly massage...  I wanted to see if everything was still in working order after yesterday.   All seems ok.   A couple of weeks ago I did that 14 on the coast, adding another two onto the end and felt fine the next day.  But finishing the 12 yesterday I couldn't have added another two on and although my legs don't feel sore or tight,  they feel tired today. 

Dubai Dave    pirate
18/01/2011 at 14:10

There is a interesting debate over on the other 3-30 thread with regard to how many quality sessions you should have in one week, as Steve the Marathon coach states and as I have already mentioned the RW schedules, P & D schedules and any others that you look at there is a speed session a tempo run, a LSR and a medium long run, its not rocket science.

The trouble with the 3-15 to 3-30 marathon is that its moving towards the serious runner end of the spectrum away from the fun runner end, its unlikely that anyone will achieve a sub 3-15 marathon without some fairly serious application unless their incredibly genetically talented. Therefore most sub 3-30 marathon runners are veterans of several attempts at the distance, it has to be unlikely that a first time marathon runner is going to have the experience or know how  to run these sort of times unless they are moving up from shorter distances. Such is the allure of the marathon that far too many runners think of it as the holy grail when they would be better suited to shorter distances. There is a lady who I train with whom is a phenominal sprinter but is insistent that she wants to run a marathon a distance to which she is clearly unsuited.

I often wonder how many runners actually have a reasonable idea of what time they are capable of in the marathon, too many times I hear I ran 3-50 last time so I must be able to run 3-30 next time, well not unless you put in  a lot of hard work you won't. I am a classsic example of this syndrome, first marathon 3-43 so of course I can go sub 3-30 at the second attempt, nope 3-33 and that stayed my best effort for the next 7 years as I ran a further 20 marathons all in the 3-35 - 3-50 bracket, it was only then that I took a long hard look at my running and realised that whilst miles make champions, champions also need speed work. 

Anyway enough of my rant, how has everyones day been? Wasn't it VO2 max session today Minni? I was out on my bike in the dark of the pre dawn and the pouring rain, that must be the first time in 12 years I have cycled in the rain!

18/01/2011 at 14:42

DD - I agree with you completely. I managed a 90min HM fairly quickly in my running career off 3 runs a week and with my other times (sub 20min 5k and sub 40min 10k and 64min 10 mile) I thought doing my first marathon would be a breeze. I woefully undertrained (no 20 milers) and grovelled round to a 3h30min off a 1h37/1h53min split. I managed to get to 3h19 on my 3rd marathon with only a 4min positive split but it took another 2 marathons before I managed to crack 3h15 with 3h12.

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