RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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11/12/2012 at 09:49

Minni- that's annoying. What are you supposed to be doing on Thursday?  Off? Can't you just shift everything by a day and do the killer sess tomorrow/ 9 miler on Thursday?

11/12/2012 at 10:03

Minni:  welcome to the world of employment [as opposed to self-employment].  I found it hard when I made the change a few years back - but running club was a great excuse for not going to the department Christmas ghastliness [is that a word or just an experience??

Bro: not sure my legs would do that in the morning, sounds like a great session!

11/12/2012 at 10:31

Minni - you need to keep a spare emergency set of running gear at work!

Intervals - I love them, particularly on the track. Think for marathon training the longer intervals are better (I like 1000m), but I think any type of faster running is good to shake you out of the funk of "easy" pace.

On the bike this morning. Proper cold. Got some Castelli Toe Thingies last week though, which stopped 3rd degree frostbite on my toes at least.

11/12/2012 at 10:41

hi All

Welcome Pauls and Shady

Pauls-good to see another runner from the NW region here. You must spend most of your running time in the hills so flat Blackpool will be a bit different

Shady-dont get too bogged down with this interval stuff its the mileage that matters for marathon pbs until the improvement gains start to become marginal.

DD- why stop at getting your head wet? Anyway a few here having taken to hitting theirs on inaniminate objects

Minni- chill-missing a run is not the end of the world . Stressing will undo your hard work. Accept it as one of those things and maybe when it comes to your next run mix the intervals into a warm up and cool down totalling 11 miles. I did that a few times leading up to my Autumn marathon.Theres lots of time to VLM and it wont make any difference.

Bro-you are one crazy person but there is somethin special about being the only person out running in these frosty condtions

Spoons-tough interval session for you.

Went out for just over an hour last night at nine and did some hill intervals whilst covering 8.5 miles.Bitterly cold but invigourating. I quite like this cold weather .Calf seems a lot better but did wear compression socks.

Busy day today so not sure when I can fit one in..well see

 

11/12/2012 at 10:44

AntP-Im sure Minni's 10k interval session sharpened me up for my Autumn races .DD did them too and look at him flying at the moment

11/12/2012 at 11:45
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Spoons......I've started doing 800m @ 10k pace, working from 6 reps and hopefully up to 10. In your honest opinion, iwill doing 800m have a difference to doing 400m instead?

Hi Shady - what are your PBs?  If you struggle to convert short distance times I would concentrate on longer, slower intervals and maintaining a good pace during recovery.  If you already have ample speed, the opportunity cost of doing really fast 400s is too great.

Also, bear in mind that working from 6 reps to 10 is increasing your load by another 2/3 rds.  The difference in stress is going to be far more than any changes in your fitness will warrant in a short time.  All else being equal it's usually preferable to pick a volume sweetspot at which you will work for a particular pace (such as 4m @ 10k) and progress it in difficulty by the way you slice it (as an e.g):  16 * 400m 8 * 800m 6 * 1k 4 * 1m etc.

11/12/2012 at 11:53

Welcome, Paul. Nothing wrong with shit races. Nearly all of my races have been shit, except maybe 3 or 4

Crikey, how can you guys to speedwork in this cold? I can barely breathe at 9mm pace! Clearly not made for winter training . I asked my asthma doc if she had a winter inhaler for me. That didn't go down well .

Another 10.5 battled out in fresh snow this morning. Dunno, but running on snow is a bit like running on sand. My legs were trashed at the end. And of course I had to face a bitter easterly wind on the return

Simon Santa Claus wrote (see)

Ok team, I just heard on the radio this morning the toughest -athlon you'll ever have to do, are you up for the challenge.........A Dryathlon..No alcohol for the whole of January in aid of some cancer charity apparently...Minni you've got no chance lol

I'm in, Simon. Marathon training will start in earnest in Jan. and after too many nights on the tiles recently I think some detox will do me good

Barry B wrote (see)

Speaking of running slow, 10 hilly miles for me this afternoon at 7:38, I know practice what you preach but at least it was slower than last Friday's 10. 

errrm, Barry .... 7:38  is...not.... slow!!!!!!

Minni wrote (see)
Oh and mine are 3k pace..... Yikes.

. Don't think I have a 3k pace ...

Minni wrote (see)

I am livid beyond belief.  I've just been asked to Chair a meeting tonight.  No problem with that but it means I won't get home until about 9:30 and I haven't got my running stuff with me to fit my run in.    Fcuk.  That means either ditching it or doing it tomorrow night, which means ditching tomorrow's 11 miler.    And it was snowing when I left home this morning.   

How annoying! Oh, I hate it when office stuff interferes with my running. Totally share your annoyance! You should cut the meeting short ... as you are chairing it, why not

Scuba: good to see you. Your recovery seems to be going really well. Fingers crossed. Tackling an IM post stroke is amazing.

11/12/2012 at 12:01
Hi thanks for the welcomes and replys:

Santa Baby: Great name by the way, I'm glad I'm not the only one, I think I can count 3 good races I've had, more to come I hope!!

2old: What part of the NW do you come from. That was the plan with Blackpool, train hard on hilly routes and reap benefits on the flats, sounds good anyway!!
11/12/2012 at 12:14

Hi Guys do you mind if i join this thread i would like to start getting the most out of these forums and this seems a pretty interesting one to be part of

11/12/2012 at 12:32

Thanks all………..it really does seem 400m reps are in. I’m going to try them out for next speed session and add a bit more variety into my life. I still plan on mixing these up with longer distances and I like the pyramid idea as well.

Moraghan……My 5k PB is 21:45, 10k PB is 44:16, HM is 1:40, 16m is 2:02 and marathon 3:44.

From the sounds of it, it’s my recovery period that needs to be shortened as well. I’m currently giving myself 2mins between each 800m rep.

O4S……..getting into movies are just fine……..it’s the put downs when I’m out with my wife……it’s never a good position to be in when you’re the one getting Id’d in a bar and your wife isn’t. Never a good way to start a night out.

Minni….I have only been a non-lurker for the past week, but I think you have set a new record for me of amount of angry faces in one message. I’d be the same….it’s amazing how angry missing a run makes me.

Andrew.......welcome...you should see a few familiar faces here from the Target 26.2 thread.

11/12/2012 at 12:40
2old wrote (see)

Minni- chill-missing a run is not the end of the world . Stressing will undo your hard work. Accept it as one of those things and maybe when it comes to your next run mix the intervals into a warm up and cool down totalling 11 miles. I did that a few times leading up to my Autumn marathon.Theres lots of time to VLM and it wont make any difference.

Yes, but its not long till my HM.   I just hate missing anything.  I did 2 miles this morning and if I'd know this was going to drop on my lap I would have done further and brought my stuff to run between work and meeting.

its like having the wine bottle snatched just as you're about to pour a glass. 

Andrew - there's never a dull moment here!

Moraghan - thank you for dropping in with training tips.  You know we hang on every word you say.

Brol - brilliant work on the track. 

 


 

11/12/2012 at 12:43

I was about to say morning and then realised that its already past that time already!

Minni I can share your annoyance....life does sometimes seem to get in the way of running. I was so frustrated yesterday when netball got cancelled at the last minute and I didnt have my running stuff and I had just ate 30 mins earlier. I have a meeting tonight aswell straight after work until 9:30, then im working 8am-9pm tomorrow. I did get out and do a bit this morning but im far better training in more sociable hours! I only managed a 10k at 7.5 min/mls

Paul blackpool should be fun, although the winds on the sea front will be challenging (unless there pushing you around).

Spoons/Minni what do you do either side of your ? x 400m sprints to warm up/cool down?

I tend to do alot of my speed work on the treadmill (although im hoping I will be able to make it down to the track more often now).  At the moment I do a 5 min warm up and cool down, then 40 mins alternating between 105 secs at 15kph (roughly 5k pace, i think) and then 60 secs recovery at 11.6 kph (just under marathon pace) - im hoping to lengthen the time im running the faster pace. On alternate weeks I will do (after my warm up) one km at 14.5 kph and then one km at 12 kph for 10km - any suggestions on these...what would be better etc

ST im glad that it went smoothly for you yesterday.

SBC Congratulations on your run this morning, im so envious of you, I love to run in fresh snow, think thats been my favourite run of all time, when I ran around whirlow with my friends last year. We found a football pitch that hadnt been walked on by anyone - I felt like a kid running across it making foot prints in the fresh snow.

11/12/2012 at 12:55
Sarah - I have 5 miles in front of my 400s!
11/12/2012 at 12:58

Yeah it is good to see some familiar faces! Minni - I'm starting to see that!

11/12/2012 at 13:24
Mora- good to see you popping in with priceless nuggets of advice
Paul- ormskirk area but originally from Cardiff.One school of thought is that the muscles work differently for hills than flat areas with less variety and more repetition for the latter so it's worth doing some long runs in dead flat areas . So to train for Boston get some hills in but for Chicago and Berlin get used to flat running. Others may have a different opinion but my training tends to mirror the course without being OCD about it.
Minni- so it's a HM , another one...you do them every few weeks.You can't pb them all and as part of a bigger plan do you really want to or need to. Thanks to you,I've been working on being relaxed about running and racing relaxed and I'm sure it was part of peaking at the right time. My plan is to try and do some HMs in Jan and Feb and to run 5-7 miles easy before and do the HM at PMP ( try for 89 mins).Maybe in March i will see if I can get a new PB but not worried about it with marathon training obviously going to affect it and not wanting to taper for the HM
Andrew - welcome. Tell us more ....
Shady- looking at your PBS I would reckon on 3.30 being well doable ..you've got the pace so it's just (just?) amatter of banging in regular LRs and MLRs
ST- always good to see a fellow crock returning so well from injury . Nice wor
11/12/2012 at 14:08
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Thanks all………..it really does seem 400m reps are in. I’m going to try them out for next speed session and add a bit more variety into my life. I still plan on mixing these up with longer distances and I like the pyramid idea as well.

Moraghan……My 5k PB is 21:45, 10k PB is 44:16, HM is 1:40, 16m is 2:02 and marathon 3:44.

From the sounds of it, it’s my recovery period that needs to be shortened as well. I’m currently giving myself 2mins between each 800m rep.

Shady - I think you need to work on your shorter distance times, as you need to get a fair bit quicker over those to consider a 3:30 marathon.  Lots of easy mileage and really mix up your interval speed and distances. 

I always make myself unpopular when I say this but your best shot would be to just do one marathon a year.  If you've been running for 8 years it's going to be difficult to develop your speed sufficiently and still do proper marathon training twice a year - unless you've got lots of weight to come off.

Edited: 11/12/2012 at 14:08
11/12/2012 at 14:52
Jogging outside could make you stupid - and more likely to suffer mental health problems
  • Exercising in busy, traffic-filled areas could actually cause mental decline
  • City joggers' brains less able to store new knowledge
  • And have higher levels inflammation, linked to mental decline


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2246332/Jogging-outside-make-stupid--likely-suffer-mental-health-problems.html#ixzz2Eks9VfsY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

So Sarah using the TM is not such a bad thing. You are doomed BRO .

11/12/2012 at 14:57

Mora- so what are you are your views as regards LRs and MLRs -how often how many how far how to run them in terms of pace ? My Pb from October is 3.09 and would like to knock a bit off that at VLM? My 10k pb is 40.04 so I suspect my speed needs a lot of work too. Thanks

11/12/2012 at 15:03

Hi all - 7 miles done around Victoria Park in East London today. Lovely out there. XC-related DOMS almost gone.

Barry - according to McMillan and based on your recent HM, your paces are spot on. He reckons your easy pace should be in the range of 7:11-8:11. 

Although there is a danger that people might do too much training at the same speed, unfortunately I suspect that is because they don't do their tempo runs fast enough  I certainly have a tendency to do that. Taking Barry's paces as an example, you should be doing your long continuous tempo runs at 6:40-6:57  That's for runs of 25mins to 1:15.

2old - yeah lets hope the XC pays off because it is hard work!

Scuba Trooper - big up to the less holy of us! Just watch out for that Clopidgrel (of you're taking it post op) because you will bleed loads if you cut yourself and get the most spectaular bruises if you get one. I was guilty on both counts

11/12/2012 at 15:31

 

2old wrote (see)
Jogging outside could make you stupid - and more likely to suffer mental health problems
  • Exercising in busy, traffic-filled areas could actually cause mental decline
  • City joggers' brains less able to store new knowledge
  • And have higher levels inflammation, linked to mental decline


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2246332/Jogging-outside-make-stupid--likely-suffer-mental-health-problems.html#ixzz2Eks9VfsY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

So Sarah using the TM is not such a bad thing. You are doomed BRO .

Thats worrying.....all those patients I have been recommending running/walking to now are going to come back with their mail underneath their arm!

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