RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

24,101 to 24,120 of 37,229 messages
11/12/2012 at 12:55
Sarah - I have 5 miles in front of my 400s!
11/12/2012 at 12:58

Yeah it is good to see some familiar faces! Minni - I'm starting to see that!

11/12/2012 at 13:24
Mora- good to see you popping in with priceless nuggets of advice
Paul- ormskirk area but originally from Cardiff.One school of thought is that the muscles work differently for hills than flat areas with less variety and more repetition for the latter so it's worth doing some long runs in dead flat areas . So to train for Boston get some hills in but for Chicago and Berlin get used to flat running. Others may have a different opinion but my training tends to mirror the course without being OCD about it.
Minni- so it's a HM , another one...you do them every few weeks.You can't pb them all and as part of a bigger plan do you really want to or need to. Thanks to you,I've been working on being relaxed about running and racing relaxed and I'm sure it was part of peaking at the right time. My plan is to try and do some HMs in Jan and Feb and to run 5-7 miles easy before and do the HM at PMP ( try for 89 mins).Maybe in March i will see if I can get a new PB but not worried about it with marathon training obviously going to affect it and not wanting to taper for the HM
Andrew - welcome. Tell us more ....
Shady- looking at your PBS I would reckon on 3.30 being well doable ..you've got the pace so it's just (just?) amatter of banging in regular LRs and MLRs
ST- always good to see a fellow crock returning so well from injury . Nice wor
11/12/2012 at 14:08
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Thanks all………..it really does seem 400m reps are in. I’m going to try them out for next speed session and add a bit more variety into my life. I still plan on mixing these up with longer distances and I like the pyramid idea as well.

Moraghan……My 5k PB is 21:45, 10k PB is 44:16, HM is 1:40, 16m is 2:02 and marathon 3:44.

From the sounds of it, it’s my recovery period that needs to be shortened as well. I’m currently giving myself 2mins between each 800m rep.

Shady - I think you need to work on your shorter distance times, as you need to get a fair bit quicker over those to consider a 3:30 marathon.  Lots of easy mileage and really mix up your interval speed and distances. 

I always make myself unpopular when I say this but your best shot would be to just do one marathon a year.  If you've been running for 8 years it's going to be difficult to develop your speed sufficiently and still do proper marathon training twice a year - unless you've got lots of weight to come off.

Edited: 11/12/2012 at 14:08
11/12/2012 at 14:52
Jogging outside could make you stupid - and more likely to suffer mental health problems
  • Exercising in busy, traffic-filled areas could actually cause mental decline
  • City joggers' brains less able to store new knowledge
  • And have higher levels inflammation, linked to mental decline


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2246332/Jogging-outside-make-stupid--likely-suffer-mental-health-problems.html#ixzz2Eks9VfsY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

So Sarah using the TM is not such a bad thing. You are doomed BRO .

11/12/2012 at 14:57

Mora- so what are you are your views as regards LRs and MLRs -how often how many how far how to run them in terms of pace ? My Pb from October is 3.09 and would like to knock a bit off that at VLM? My 10k pb is 40.04 so I suspect my speed needs a lot of work too. Thanks

11/12/2012 at 15:03

Hi all - 7 miles done around Victoria Park in East London today. Lovely out there. XC-related DOMS almost gone.

Barry - according to McMillan and based on your recent HM, your paces are spot on. He reckons your easy pace should be in the range of 7:11-8:11. 

Although there is a danger that people might do too much training at the same speed, unfortunately I suspect that is because they don't do their tempo runs fast enough  I certainly have a tendency to do that. Taking Barry's paces as an example, you should be doing your long continuous tempo runs at 6:40-6:57  That's for runs of 25mins to 1:15.

2old - yeah lets hope the XC pays off because it is hard work!

Scuba Trooper - big up to the less holy of us! Just watch out for that Clopidgrel (of you're taking it post op) because you will bleed loads if you cut yourself and get the most spectaular bruises if you get one. I was guilty on both counts

11/12/2012 at 15:31

 

2old wrote (see)
Jogging outside could make you stupid - and more likely to suffer mental health problems
  • Exercising in busy, traffic-filled areas could actually cause mental decline
  • City joggers' brains less able to store new knowledge
  • And have higher levels inflammation, linked to mental decline


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2246332/Jogging-outside-make-stupid--likely-suffer-mental-health-problems.html#ixzz2Eks9VfsY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

So Sarah using the TM is not such a bad thing. You are doomed BRO .

Thats worrying.....all those patients I have been recommending running/walking to now are going to come back with their mail underneath their arm!

11/12/2012 at 15:42
11/12/2012 at 16:04
2old wrote (see)

Mora- so what are you are your views as regards LRs and MLRs -how often how many how far how to run them in terms of pace ? My Pb from October is 3.09 and would like to knock a bit off that at VLM? My 10k pb is 40.04 so I suspect my speed needs a lot of work too. Thanks

With a blank sheet of paper and not knowing the person -

I like 7 * 20m(+) with 2 lasting as long as the race duration.  The more campaigns somebody has done like that the more MP work you can include in the long runs and keep them at 20m.  But I wouldn't regard someone as completely ready to start a 16 - week marathon training program unless they could do 18m comfortably in training on an easy week.

I tend to prefer long quality sessions of 10m+ so de-emphasise the MLR unless someone has fairly high mileage and can manage them as well.  If someone has tons of speed I'd be more likely to go for a good MLR every week even if it meant making one of the quality sessions much easier than usual.

Obviously the faster someone is the more flexibility one has, because the long run durations aren't so onerous.

2old - that's already a good conversion, so your endurance / long run plan already looks sufficient!  I think you're right about speed potentially being the limiter so I'd be more inclined to switch the endurance to 'maintenance mode' and trying to ramp up some intensity in your quality sessions (assuming they're not already like that).

What was your HM before October's race? 

Sarah - if what you do disagrees with the Daily Mail you're probably doing it right!

11/12/2012 at 16:45

Lots of new people on here which is good to see - please do stick around, as there is plenty of sub 3.30 success on here   Good luck in the Asics competition too.

Talking of which, has anyone had a look at the myasics website they are going to use to do the schedules for the competition this year. You put in your target race distance and time, plus a time for a recent race of the same or other distance, and it comes up with a plan. Trouble is it doesn't seem logical - the plan only allows you to select to run either 2, 3 or 4 days per week (no more!)...it reckons on my times I could run a 3.14 marathon on 2 days a week training . I really hope the Asics winners get better schedules than that!

No run today - been in and out of meetings all day and haven't had any time to myself until now.  Back to it tomorrow though.

Minni - don't stress about today's run - an extra day's rest might do you some good and you'll go out and smash the next killer session. BTW I hope you don't have any problems on your way home - heard on the radio there was an accident just outside Berwick and the road linking the town to the A1 was closed...it was a few hours ago though so hopefully all cleared by now.

Moraghan - thanks for the stuff about LSRs. Good to know that you think doing that many 20+ is a good idea, as I love doing them. In terms of adding MP into the long runs, what is your recommendation - how many of the long runs, how much at MP and at what point during the run? 

11/12/2012 at 17:14
Hi I'm hoping for a sub 3.30 time I completed this years VLM in 4.08 but have put in lots of work and really hope that I would be able to hit my target. What are people's thoughts on this?
M.r Zuvai    pirate
11/12/2012 at 17:31

Hi Andrew,

although ambitious it is doable - what's impossible to say is whether you can given the little information you've given us

let us a bit more about yourself, - what was your previous training like, what are you pbs for 5k, 10k, and half marathon? ect.

11/12/2012 at 17:52

Yes I heard that earlier too Freemers and its on my road.  I imagine it'll be clear by the time I leave.  The roads are lethal around here.  I met the first crashed car just half a mile from my house this morning.  Gritters are a thing of the past here.

 

 

11/12/2012 at 17:56
Moraghan wrote (see)
 

  But I wouldn't regard someone as completely ready to start a 16 - week marathon training program unless they could do 18m comfortably in training on an easy week.

Definitely one of the biggest mistakes I made over the years was to train for and run a Spring marathon then muck around in the hills all summer, rest up a bit in the Autumn, then start marathon training again in January.   So I was always starting from the same level.  Consistency is key and now with 2 years of solid training behind me I can really feel the difference.


 

11/12/2012 at 18:01
AndyA wrote (see)
  Daily Mail   www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

 

Its actually quite catchy!
11/12/2012 at 18:09

 

 

Sarah - if what you do disagrees with the Daily Mail you're probably doing it right!


Moraghan,
can I quote that to my patients ?

Minni and Moraghan ive been trying to sick to around 13 -15 miles max for my long distance run as I was advised by someone not to keep doing any more than that as I would burn out and become injured...that was just one persons advice. Would you have recommended doing further over the summer/autumn months? Thanks

 

Hope your journey home is ok Minni

11/12/2012 at 18:12
Moro- that's very helpful thanks. I didn't do a HM before ( i did two 10ks and two sprint tris)but did one three weeks later in 88.04. To be honest I avoided overdoing speed sessions as I had a year off before this with knee tendinitis- age taking its toll.My training tended to be runs of 10 miles or more and it wasn't until the last four weeks that I notched up many runs under.

Minni- I saw a gritter here a few minutes ago so we must have yours. There's no doubt that you can knockout an 18 miler any day. I did 17 a few weeks ago and might see what's possible on Sunday. I quite like the idea that its not an issue doing a LR - this time last year I had a mental block about them. I think not using an iPod has made a big difference as I'm more in touch with how I feel and the rhythm of the run. Did you get your intervals done?

Just managed to squeeze a TM session in- 18.5 k with some 1.5k intervals at MP,HMP,10kP. Average pace 7.29.
11/12/2012 at 18:25
Moraghan can I ask for a bit of your wisdom too? What are your thoughts on doing a half marathon two weeks before a full? I already kind of know the answer but I'd rather be told straight that I'd be ruining all my hard work marathon training by racing 13.1 two weeks out.... unless you think differently!
11/12/2012 at 18:34

Paul -  Welcome,  good luck with the Asics comp, but if the training is like the plans Freemers  mentioned maybe stay clear.

ST -  Good news about your op.

Minni  - Could n't you have said no as you had something a lot more important to do, Homeland was v good.

2old -  Your training plans work very well for you.

Bro -  Impressive return to the quick stuff.  Any reason for the quick stuff only 2 weeks after your mara.

Chick -  Well done for getting out in the conditions.

Andrew -  Welcome, history and mara plans?

Ant - Cheers for the info, I am just going out and running comfortably up until xmas without checking the Garmin and the times are all coming out around 7:30 to 7:40.

Carrot -  I think you can race a HM 2 weeks before a mara but the taper would have a quite drastic reduction in mileage to recover.

5 miles for me this evening, v cold, at 7:38 avg which according to Macmillan is OK.

 

 

Edited: 11/12/2012 at 18:35
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