RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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11/12/2012 at 15:42
11/12/2012 at 16:04
2old wrote (see)

Mora- so what are you are your views as regards LRs and MLRs -how often how many how far how to run them in terms of pace ? My Pb from October is 3.09 and would like to knock a bit off that at VLM? My 10k pb is 40.04 so I suspect my speed needs a lot of work too. Thanks

With a blank sheet of paper and not knowing the person -

I like 7 * 20m(+) with 2 lasting as long as the race duration.  The more campaigns somebody has done like that the more MP work you can include in the long runs and keep them at 20m.  But I wouldn't regard someone as completely ready to start a 16 - week marathon training program unless they could do 18m comfortably in training on an easy week.

I tend to prefer long quality sessions of 10m+ so de-emphasise the MLR unless someone has fairly high mileage and can manage them as well.  If someone has tons of speed I'd be more likely to go for a good MLR every week even if it meant making one of the quality sessions much easier than usual.

Obviously the faster someone is the more flexibility one has, because the long run durations aren't so onerous.

2old - that's already a good conversion, so your endurance / long run plan already looks sufficient!  I think you're right about speed potentially being the limiter so I'd be more inclined to switch the endurance to 'maintenance mode' and trying to ramp up some intensity in your quality sessions (assuming they're not already like that).

What was your HM before October's race? 

Sarah - if what you do disagrees with the Daily Mail you're probably doing it right!

11/12/2012 at 16:45

Lots of new people on here which is good to see - please do stick around, as there is plenty of sub 3.30 success on here   Good luck in the Asics competition too.

Talking of which, has anyone had a look at the myasics website they are going to use to do the schedules for the competition this year. You put in your target race distance and time, plus a time for a recent race of the same or other distance, and it comes up with a plan. Trouble is it doesn't seem logical - the plan only allows you to select to run either 2, 3 or 4 days per week (no more!)...it reckons on my times I could run a 3.14 marathon on 2 days a week training . I really hope the Asics winners get better schedules than that!

No run today - been in and out of meetings all day and haven't had any time to myself until now.  Back to it tomorrow though.

Minni - don't stress about today's run - an extra day's rest might do you some good and you'll go out and smash the next killer session. BTW I hope you don't have any problems on your way home - heard on the radio there was an accident just outside Berwick and the road linking the town to the A1 was closed...it was a few hours ago though so hopefully all cleared by now.

Moraghan - thanks for the stuff about LSRs. Good to know that you think doing that many 20+ is a good idea, as I love doing them. In terms of adding MP into the long runs, what is your recommendation - how many of the long runs, how much at MP and at what point during the run? 

11/12/2012 at 17:14
Hi I'm hoping for a sub 3.30 time I completed this years VLM in 4.08 but have put in lots of work and really hope that I would be able to hit my target. What are people's thoughts on this?
M.r Zuvai    pirate
11/12/2012 at 17:31

Hi Andrew,

although ambitious it is doable - what's impossible to say is whether you can given the little information you've given us

let us a bit more about yourself, - what was your previous training like, what are you pbs for 5k, 10k, and half marathon? ect.

11/12/2012 at 17:52

Yes I heard that earlier too Freemers and its on my road.  I imagine it'll be clear by the time I leave.  The roads are lethal around here.  I met the first crashed car just half a mile from my house this morning.  Gritters are a thing of the past here.

 

 

11/12/2012 at 17:56
Moraghan wrote (see)
 

  But I wouldn't regard someone as completely ready to start a 16 - week marathon training program unless they could do 18m comfortably in training on an easy week.

Definitely one of the biggest mistakes I made over the years was to train for and run a Spring marathon then muck around in the hills all summer, rest up a bit in the Autumn, then start marathon training again in January.   So I was always starting from the same level.  Consistency is key and now with 2 years of solid training behind me I can really feel the difference.


 

11/12/2012 at 18:01
AndyA wrote (see)
  Daily Mail   www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

 

Its actually quite catchy!
11/12/2012 at 18:09

 

 

Sarah - if what you do disagrees with the Daily Mail you're probably doing it right!


Moraghan,
can I quote that to my patients ?

Minni and Moraghan ive been trying to sick to around 13 -15 miles max for my long distance run as I was advised by someone not to keep doing any more than that as I would burn out and become injured...that was just one persons advice. Would you have recommended doing further over the summer/autumn months? Thanks

 

Hope your journey home is ok Minni

11/12/2012 at 18:12
Moro- that's very helpful thanks. I didn't do a HM before ( i did two 10ks and two sprint tris)but did one three weeks later in 88.04. To be honest I avoided overdoing speed sessions as I had a year off before this with knee tendinitis- age taking its toll.My training tended to be runs of 10 miles or more and it wasn't until the last four weeks that I notched up many runs under.

Minni- I saw a gritter here a few minutes ago so we must have yours. There's no doubt that you can knockout an 18 miler any day. I did 17 a few weeks ago and might see what's possible on Sunday. I quite like the idea that its not an issue doing a LR - this time last year I had a mental block about them. I think not using an iPod has made a big difference as I'm more in touch with how I feel and the rhythm of the run. Did you get your intervals done?

Just managed to squeeze a TM session in- 18.5 k with some 1.5k intervals at MP,HMP,10kP. Average pace 7.29.
11/12/2012 at 18:25
Moraghan can I ask for a bit of your wisdom too? What are your thoughts on doing a half marathon two weeks before a full? I already kind of know the answer but I'd rather be told straight that I'd be ruining all my hard work marathon training by racing 13.1 two weeks out.... unless you think differently!
11/12/2012 at 18:34

Paul -  Welcome,  good luck with the Asics comp, but if the training is like the plans Freemers  mentioned maybe stay clear.

ST -  Good news about your op.

Minni  - Could n't you have said no as you had something a lot more important to do, Homeland was v good.

2old -  Your training plans work very well for you.

Bro -  Impressive return to the quick stuff.  Any reason for the quick stuff only 2 weeks after your mara.

Chick -  Well done for getting out in the conditions.

Andrew -  Welcome, history and mara plans?

Ant - Cheers for the info, I am just going out and running comfortably up until xmas without checking the Garmin and the times are all coming out around 7:30 to 7:40.

Carrot -  I think you can race a HM 2 weeks before a mara but the taper would have a quite drastic reduction in mileage to recover.

5 miles for me this evening, v cold, at 7:38 avg which according to Macmillan is OK.

 

 

Edited: 11/12/2012 at 18:35
11/12/2012 at 19:32

Freemer - even with the dubious history of the super six I can't believe they will be using that myasics garbage!  Has anyone else looked at it?

I don't see any need to do more than about 3 long runs with MP.  5 easy / 5 mp / 5 easy / 5mp or 7m easy / 6m steady / 6m mp or 10m easy / 10m mp.  Something along those lines - and I would keep them apart by at least 2 weeks.

Sarah - it's pretty difficult to burn out from a weekly long run at easy pace.  My suggestion would be to do something like a 17 - 18 miler every 3 weeks or so when not in marathon training during summer, if you don't want to do more.  You can still be a marathoner when not in marathon training!

There seem to be two burn out camps - intervals addicts saying mileage will burn you out and mileage addicts saying intervals will burn you out.  They're both right and they're both wrong!

2old - ah,  yes - getting old can throw a spanner in the works.  Some people find it easier to do the speedwork on hills but my knees only feel okay in bed!

Merry Carrotmas - Sorry, unnecessary risk in my opinion!  It's too much too close and also has the possibility of undermining confidence.  Not a bad spot for a 10k for some though.

Scuba Trooper    pirate
11/12/2012 at 19:38

Welcome to all the new members if I have not said so already.

After a lot of racing recently everyone seems to have turned there attention to training plans and spring marathons in particular. The stoke has put pay to any thoughts of a spring marathon for me but I am looking forward to stalking you lot as you put your plans into action and may even take a day trip to watch those doing the VLM.

My plan doesn't start properly until 1st Feb and is 30 weeks of almost exclusively low heart rate, steady work. Your talk of intervals makes me both smug and envyous, I hate the thought of them but love the feeling you get when you nail them. I might drop a 10km or MH race into my plan in the spring to find out how much pace and stamina I've lost over the last couple of months so maybe I'll be racing at the same time as some of you leading up to spring marathons. Anyone considering Silverstone HM?

Everything went really well yesterday(thank you all for your kind wishes), can you believe they can do a procedure to put a device in a hole in my heart in 15mins with the only evidence being a cut less than 1 cm in my groin. I'm sore and a bit tired but I'm sure by the end of the week I'll be back to training (Ant point noted re bleeding, thanks). Its so nice to be able to look forward now to a clear block of training with nothing hanging over me.

DD - The IM I have signed up for is Challenge Henley which is also the Pirate Championship. I've ordered my yellow and black Lycra and intend to enjoy the whole experience.

M.r Zuvai    pirate
11/12/2012 at 19:57

ST - thats swung it for me - i'll get my henley entry in the new year 

11/12/2012 at 20:02
Thanks for the hello Barry,

I had a look at the asics app and yes it only covers up to 4 days of training a week, I'll be using the forums for better advice. If anyone wanted a little bio from me, here are my pb's:

10k 41:32mins
10miles 69mins
1/2 Marathon 1hr 33mins
Marathon 3:59

As you can see I think I've got a good one in me, I've been running seriously for about a year, I'm coming from an off road running background. I was hoping to join this thread, ask a lot, read a lot and learn a lot!!!
11/12/2012 at 20:34
Paul - your 10k, 10mile and HM times are very similar to mine, abd I have a 3.24 marathon PB so you definitely can do it. Looks like you have the speed, just need to build some endurance (much like most of the guys on this thread)

Moraghan - thanks for the tips on LSRs with MP. I'll give that a go.
11/12/2012 at 20:54

Busy on here. Struggling to keep up. Did my intervals. All went well. 

Sarah - do a longer warmup than 5 mins when doing short intervals. 

11/12/2012 at 21:13

Moraghan (and everyone else!) - thanks for your advice.......luckily I do have some weight to lose.......I was at my current weight (160lbs) when running my PB, but I should be under 150lbs at the very least.....I think this would make all the difference to my speed and 5k/10k times.

Merry Carrotmas - I've actively looked for a half marathon a couple of weeks before my marathon as my last marathon paced run. I'm quickly starting to think this has been a rash cjoice in the past.

11/12/2012 at 21:40

 

Freemers wrote (see)

Talking of which, has anyone had a look at the myasics website they are going to use to do the schedules for the competition this year. You put in your target race distance and time, plus a time for a recent race of the same or other distance, and it comes up with a plan. Trouble is it doesn't seem logical - the plan only allows you to select to run either 2, 3 or 4 days per week (no more!)...it reckons on my times I could run a 3.14 marathon on 2 days a week training . I really hope the Asics winners get better schedules than that!

I can run 3:13 on three days per week (calm down Simon )

  • one run of 3 slow miles, recovery - well you need it don't you.
  • one of of between 5 - 8 miles at HMP.  No warm up....
  • long run:  4 x 14m; 1 x 18m; 1 x 22m.  The 14 miles are interesting - 5.5m faster than HMP then the rest a bit slower than MP.

If the guy who's hoping for 2:20 gets through it'll be an interesting thread to follow.

Paul - Your times are not that much different to mine.  10k a bit faster, HM a bit slower but marathon 40 minutes slower.  Looks like you need to work on your endurance a bit more.  I came from an off road background too and although it makes you strong it encourages lots of slow running.  You'll find now you're on the roads you can gauge paces much better.

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