RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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08/01/2013 at 08:36

I've read a bit about the not fuelling prior to LSR's too. There may be something to it, but I'm not prepared to risk it to be honest. I'd rather have exactly the same breakfast as I'll have on race day, and then try and do the same with hydration throughout. I'd be worried the possible downside (a key 20M+ run blowing up early) is more risky than the potential benefits gained. As for post-run refuelling, chocolate milk for me too.

Simon / Chick, thanks for all of the info. The wet bezel bit doesn't bother me as I always have it running through the screens anyway, so never touch it whilst I'm out. Shall get it ordered now...

5M for me this morning, but was a bit naughty and pushed it a bit, finishing with 2 x 8.05 but it felt ok (Glyn, I told you I'd struggle to practice what I preach!) 

08/01/2013 at 09:21
Bro we could end up pacing each other! Good for holding back in the easy early miles, keeping focussed during the middle miles and digging deep and pushing each other on in the final miles

Weeble - I'll probably do 5 or 6 x 20miles or above, plus shorter runs with some MP miles.

Hope you're aching a bit less today Spoons? I like having sore abs! A little reminder of a hard session every time you laugh / sneeze / drive around a roundabout!

Redwood that's great if you're back up to 8 miles pain free, I'm sure you can sound that week up to 26

Daren don't despair, rest is hard but you will come back stronger and faster, rest worked for Parsnip who is back to his usual speedy self after four months off last year.

O4S enjoy the wine and jelly babies! Shame you didn't get them on the day.

Minni - depends on the run as to what fuel I'd go for before and after. Shorter runs I just fit in when I can so don't pay much attention to eating before or after. My long run is usually done on a day off work so I'll do it on a morning after a bagel. Try to have some pasta for tea the night before too. I don't see the logic of not refueling for hours afterwards though, surely that's the most important time to get some kind of recovery drink and some food into you?

Good paces for your 2 mile reps Barry, that little countdown beep on the garmin is the best!

Jantastic day one for me was a rest day, track session tonight.
08/01/2013 at 09:24

I agree with Redwood. I think underfuelling/ running on empty is a bit risky.  If I had a nutritionist at my disposal (like I imagine the elites do) who would ensure it's done correctly maybe I would give it a go. As it is, I would be worried that my training would suffer. I think it's something that's easy to get wrong. Is there actually a solid evidence that you can get your body used to burning more fat by running on empty? I'm not saying there isn't but would be interested to read up on it in more detail. To be honest I just don't like being hungry. Running 20m is hard as it is, I don't fancy starving myself to make it even harder.

13m done before work and I'm on my second breakfast. So much for underfuelling!

My foot is a bit buggered. I think I bruised the ball of my left foot by running more in my trail shoes recently which don't have much cushioning. It's not excruciating but slightly annoying and doesn't want to go away. Hopefully TM running will mean a bit less impact and it sorts itself out.

08/01/2013 at 09:26

O4S- congrats on the 1st place!!!

Carrot- xpost. Sounds like a plan.

08/01/2013 at 10:28

Carrot: I could have got them on the day [the other lady fessed up as soon as she realised what had happened] but I was en route to Ireland straight after the run.  The results on the website were done by some computer geek who didn't bother to change the category.

Re fuelling on any run - I only ever have one slice of toast before a run of any length and no gels en route.  Only drink water in a race, not on training runs, because I can't be bothered to carry it round.  When I was doing my PBs gels didn't exist and I can't remember any races having energy drinks - or in fact anyone carrying one round.  Since my PBs [admittedly 20 odd years ago] are comparable to many on this thread I can't believe it makes that much difference except as a mental crutch.

Alternatively I could have been Paula Radcliffe.................

08/01/2013 at 10:30


Minni wrote (see)


There's been a bit of talk on the Asics threads and others about fuelling, or rather not fuelling for long runs.  I'm a great believer of you only get out what you put in and when marathon training make sure I get either a recovery drink or milk and food down my neck as soon as I finish a harder session.  There's all kind of talk going on about running in the evening after not eating since breakfast and not eating for 2 hours after runs the then only proteins. 

Can anyone elaborate on this?  I'd be worried that my muscles weren't getting what they need to recover.

Not fuelling after runs sounds like a very silly concept to me - wouldn't recommend it. In fact, I'm doing my best this campaign to improve on post run fuelling because I'm crap at it. I have a new found love for banana shakes - 1 banana, bit of milk, bit of vanilla yoghurt, bit of vanilla sugar - into the blender and YUM. Takes about 2 mins to put it together and it's all natural . Don't much like the chemical recovery drinks that are on the market.

BarryB: those were great 2mile reps. Well done!

Simon: interesting about the wet bezel thing. It never bothered me - I have one training screen that shows me the data I want to see. I can understand how it would drive people nuts though if they relied on the different screens.

O4S: sorry to hear you are having a hard time at the mo. Well done on being "upgraded" to 1st V55

1st Jantastic run logged for me . Fell off the wagon last night  But after an 11 hour workday all I was craving was a pizza and a bit of red.


08/01/2013 at 10:33

On Sunday I got out of bed at 8:40, had a bowl of readybrek and 2 mugs of coffee and was on the road for my 18m by 9am.    is this bad?

This is what I was referring to re not eating after a run:

RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)

There is many ways to deplete in carbs for example not eating for two hours post hard run (not even protein) or long run then little carbs for rest of day then traing next day low but this is not the only way.

08/01/2013 at 10:35

Like Brol I'd be interested to know the evidence behind it.


M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 10:45

hmmm  - she's very experienced so im loath to dissagree but im not sure im comfortable with that idea

my personal view is very similar to most here - i dont really fuel during my training runs - im very comfortable about what gels work well with me in a race environment so will only take gels in my last LSR to remind myself what it feels like and response time but all other runs i dont fuel during as i want my body to become more efficient at processing fat. As for not during post run seems just daft!! - plain milk for me but with an egg included and whisked up

Anyway - well done on jantastic team - a solid start to our defence!  

day 8 on the wagon - not struggling too much but could certainly kill a guiness

08/01/2013 at 10:51

O4S- I'm sure you can do without and many people do. But for me there is no denying that gels give you a boost and it's not just psychological, I can very much feel when they kick in. Sometimes I take them during LSR and don't even think about it and only remember I had one when I notice that my pace picks up 10-15min later. If it's necessary to use them in training is debatable but during a race I will use all the help I can get!

On another hand Ady mentioned on his thread that Lance Armstrong apparently used 16 gels during the NY marathon . Is it even humanly possible?

08/01/2013 at 10:56

16 gels !!! 

I never use them, apart from the marathon. I think they are revolting but in the actual race I wouldn't dare to leave them at home. What if I hit the wall . Nah, I rather carry a few packs of sickly-sweet gunk around and tuck in every 5 miles or so. They also help to break up the race I find ...

08/01/2013 at 10:57

Minni- to be fair Ruth was answering a specific question about under fuelling and explained various ways to do it. She did say however that she wouldn't recommend it to someone not experienced.

08/01/2013 at 11:00

Minni- I had my porridge this morning at 6.00 and was out of the door by 6.15. If you can get away with it I don't think it's a problem. I wouldn't eat anything heavier though.

08/01/2013 at 11:01


Morning all

Barry-good commuting runs and very good reps

MrZ-its when you stop counting the days you know you are winning the battle...hang on in there but a Guiness does sound nice--purely medicinal of course

Minni-didnt see you as Ready Brek girl.more of a pinhead oats cooked in in water with salt all night  sort of person. I reserve eating porridge for race morning which is a bit risky and maybe why I have to stop!

Bro-good to see you back ramping up the miles.

Chick-well done for logging a Jantastic run

Re food- I guess at our level its all about what makes us feel comfortable so that its not a worry to distract us and put us off. If it makes you happy running and keep wanting to do it then thats good wheres that Mars bar

Have to do something with some faster running today -cant say Im looking forward to it.



08/01/2013 at 11:05

16 -  .  He froze his own blood though - not of sound mind.  Probably find it was the blood that was in the gel sachets!

Brol - I didn't have time to read back and see what all the chat had been leading up to that.  I do wonder if its worth looking into more.

We had a student working here up to Christmas who was studying Sports and Nutrition and he was going to write me an eating plan but to be honest I don't think it would be any different to what I already do.  When he comes back I'll quiz him on this.


08/01/2013 at 11:07

Porridge if I have time otherwise Readybrek on long running days. Porridge on race days.   I eat an egg roll for breakfast each morning - in the car driving to work.  I'm always running too late to eat it at home.  

08/01/2013 at 11:19

Minni- it's the 2min microwavable porridge. Not much preparation time needed.

I've decided to watch what I eat a bit more and downloaded that app you mentioned. It's quite eye opening. I was always under the impression that a woman needs about 2000 calories but no, apparently I only need around 1400 to maintain my weight. That's me done with my allowance by lunch time without running!

M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 11:28

re the 16 gels thing - touring cyclists develop stomachs of steel that are capable of ingesting anything so its entirely possble that he could take on that many, but given his time that would have meant a gel every 10 minutes!!  - aint nobody got time for that!

08/01/2013 at 11:31

MrZ- yeah, Ady said it was every 10-12min. I thought you can't digest more than 2 of them per hour...

08/01/2013 at 11:32

And who was carrying them all???

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