RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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08/01/2013 at 11:37

16 gels?????????? wonder what was in them? 5 in a marathon is about as much as my delicate system will handle. Can we run an experiment on this thread? Have a group doing LRs with up to 16 gels another with none and how would the control group work?

Minni-your insurers wont be happy if you crash with an egg roll in your mouth

M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 11:43
2oldnever wrote (see)

Minni-your insurers wont be happy if you crash with an egg roll in your mouth

yeah - she'd end up with egg on her face!!  

 

*cough*  - i'll show myself out

Edited: 08/01/2013 at 11:43
08/01/2013 at 11:59
He must have been weighed down by all those gels. I'm sure the packets say no more than 3 an hour, and that seems excessive!

I can do a slice of malt loaf 30 mins before a slow run but haven't tried anything bigger, I'd probably end up with a stitch! I guess if the run is slow it doesn't really affect you, I can remember stuffing my face with hot cross buns, soup and mars bars at the checkpoints at Beachy Head marathon and had no digestion issues.

Everyone at work is on a health kick. I'm taking a big cake in tomorrow for a lady who is leaving, muahahahaha! One girl has bought a waterproof ipod to go swimming with, if public pools aren't chaos enough as it is there'll be folks swimming along oblivious to everyone now!
08/01/2013 at 12:22
M.r Zuvai wrote (see)
2oldnever wrote (see)

Minni-your insurers wont be happy if you crash with an egg roll in your mouth

yeah - she'd end up with egg on her face!!  

 

*cough*  - i'll show myself out

I have a latte in the other hand.   

08/01/2013 at 12:44

I saw someone in a half marathon recently with about 10 gels stuffed in his belt.....

08/01/2013 at 13:43
Spoons. wrote (see)

I saw someone in a half marathon recently with about 10 gels stuffed in his belt.....

I'd be mortified ...   I tend to take one gel to a HM race but I never eat it. It's more like a peace of mind thing. Although I do hide it in me pocket. Wouldn't be seen dead in a HM with gels

M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 13:46
chickadeee wrote (see)
Spoons. wrote (see)

I saw someone in a half marathon recently with about 10 gels stuffed in his belt.....

I'd be mortified ...   I tend to take one gel to a HM race but I never eat it. It's more like a peace of mind thing. Although I do hide it in me pocket. Wouldn't be seen dead in a HM with gels

like O4S said - they're probably a mental crutch more than anything -they do make a nice way to break up the race - concentrate on getting to the next gel point rather than let the marathon loom large over you

08/01/2013 at 13:51
Spoons. wrote (see)

I saw someone in a half marathon recently with about 10 gels stuffed in his belt.....

Was it Lance Armstrong?

I normally have one gel on a HM, take it after 40 mins. 2 runs logged for Jantastic.

08/01/2013 at 14:00

Last HM, I had one gel taken at about 6 miles. I did wish I had another though for 9 miles when tackling the hill. Even if it is just palcebo, you certainly feel a boost. 

First run for Jantastic today. And early run for me, ie 7:45, and I was well bushed. Made the ride into work a struggle. Don't think I can do runs before breakfast. 

On the whol carb / LR thing, Greg Mcmillan created a bit of a stir a few years ago, suggesting to do LRs with depleted energy stores. He retracted it slightly since. 

https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/articlePages/article/2

 

M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 14:12

i dont think there was anything that extrodanary in that article - the lsr's are meant to develop the body's ability to fuel with fat, and you're not going to develop that efficiently if your fuelling your runs

i dont think there was a suggestion that you should starve yourself for the lsr though

 

 

08/01/2013 at 14:18
M.r Zuvai wrote (see)

i dont think there was anything that extrodanary in that article - the lsr's are meant to develop the body's ability to fuel with fat, and you're not going to develop that efficiently if your fuelling your runs

i dont think there was a suggestion that you should starve yourself for the lsr though

 

 

I beg to differ

"Finally, (and this is optional) a great way to ensure that you will deplete your carbohydrate stores on these long, steady runs is to not eat any carbohydrates immediately before or during the run. Any carbohydrates ingested will be used by the body for fuel, and we don't want this. We want to deny the body carbohydrates in these runs so that the muscles will become better at sparing the carbohydrate stores, more efficient at burning fat and used to running with lowered blood glucose levels. Now, many people think I'm crazy when I say this, but it works. It takes time to get adjusted to it if you have always been carbing up before and during your long runs, but with time and practice you can do it. I will note, however, that it is important to drink water and electrolytes throughout these runs so that you don't get dehydrated. I also recommend carrying an energy gel with you just in case you run into trouble (like taking a wrong turn, having to run longer than expected and getting a little woozy)."

08/01/2013 at 14:20

Sounds like starving to me!

M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 14:26

it's funny how things can be interpretted differently  i took the key word in that extract to be immediately

"Finally, (and this is optional) a great way to ensure that you will deplete your carbohydrate stores on these long, steady runs is to not eat any carbohydrates immediately before or during the run. Any carbohydrates ingested will be used by the body for fuel, and we don't want this. We want to deny the body carbohydrates in these runs so that the muscles will become better at sparing the carbohydrate stores, more efficient at burning fat and used to running with lowered blood glucose levels. Now, many people think I'm crazy when I say this, but it works. It takes time to get adjusted to it if you have always been carbing up before and during your long runs, but with time and practice you can do it. I will note, however, that it is important to drink water and electrolytes throughout these runs so that you don't get dehydrated. I also recommend carrying an energy gel with you just in case you run into trouble (like taking a wrong turn, having to run longer than expected and getting a little woozy)."

As in dont take any specific fueling products. many people will take a gel just before then during the run - didnt say anything about not eating breakfast

one thing we can agree on is that not refuelling after is a terrible idea!!

08/01/2013 at 14:35

I cannot stress enough that if you want to adopt this long run strategy that you very gradually wean yourself off of carbohydrates. Your body is likely used to it so I recommend that you continue with your same breakfast and gradually begin to space apart your intake of carbohydrates during the run. For example, if you take an energy gel every 45 minutes, begin to take them every 50 minutes. On the following long run, extend this to 55 minutes. See how your body responds. Then, gradually begin to reduce the amount of breakfast you have before the long run.

So the idea is to gradually get to the point where you have no breakfast and no carbs during the run.

08/01/2013 at 14:37

I hate the new website by the way, very difficult to read.

M.r Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 14:39

clearly i cant read!  or im just naturally greedy "aint no one taking my breakfast from me "

 

08/01/2013 at 14:44

Lol.

08/01/2013 at 14:45

Hmmm Mr Z I read that as not fueling up before on carbs. Maybe should go the opposite direction and have a big cooked breakfast so fat stores are full? Actually a friend has switched to an atkins/ paleo type diet so...

Lance Armstrong I think had 13 gels allegedly. and some of these caffeine ones.

He didn't look in too good shape after saying he could beat 2:42 though, probably as Minni would say cause he's male 

http://voices.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-learns-humility-nyc-marathon-110910.html

I'm with the always fuel the same group, breakfast, and recovery afterwards. porridge & poached eggs for me. fasting would just wipe me out. Similar to 2old, I usually have water and little lunch packets of dried fruit, with some blok shots as backup but never used.

 O4s congrats.

 Simon hope the foot is okay. Might see you & 2old at Maddog - not running though, recovery after ultra but missus may do the 10k.

 Daren sorry to hear you are out at moment.

 Brol, great running last few days for you, even if the second breakfast thing makes you sound like a hobbit. One that runs a lot. Trail shoes - do you mean the XT4s? I still tend to wear Kanadias, XTs for races only.

08/01/2013 at 14:46
08/01/2013 at 14:48

Bro- that makes sense as does carrying an emergency gel. I remember hitting a wall after 16 miles when I ran in the afternoon without any lunch and I still had 3 miles to get home .-absolute nightmare.

Barry- I took a gel in my last HM just we hit the hilly stage. The caffeine in it gave me an immediate boost and i passed a number of people. It could well be a placaebo effect but it did the job. Congrats on Jantatstic no 2.

Minni-how do you hold the steering wheel?.....ohnegg on your face....I get it

17k treadmill run completed. Overall 7.29mm average but it included a 'Minni interval session' of 5x6mins at 14kmph with 3 min recoveries at 12kmph. Toughest session Ive done for a long while. Janatastic no 2 done.

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