RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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Mr Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 14:26

it's funny how things can be interpretted differently  i took the key word in that extract to be immediately

"Finally, (and this is optional) a great way to ensure that you will deplete your carbohydrate stores on these long, steady runs is to not eat any carbohydrates immediately before or during the run. Any carbohydrates ingested will be used by the body for fuel, and we don't want this. We want to deny the body carbohydrates in these runs so that the muscles will become better at sparing the carbohydrate stores, more efficient at burning fat and used to running with lowered blood glucose levels. Now, many people think I'm crazy when I say this, but it works. It takes time to get adjusted to it if you have always been carbing up before and during your long runs, but with time and practice you can do it. I will note, however, that it is important to drink water and electrolytes throughout these runs so that you don't get dehydrated. I also recommend carrying an energy gel with you just in case you run into trouble (like taking a wrong turn, having to run longer than expected and getting a little woozy)."

As in dont take any specific fueling products. many people will take a gel just before then during the run - didnt say anything about not eating breakfast

one thing we can agree on is that not refuelling after is a terrible idea!!

08/01/2013 at 14:35

I cannot stress enough that if you want to adopt this long run strategy that you very gradually wean yourself off of carbohydrates. Your body is likely used to it so I recommend that you continue with your same breakfast and gradually begin to space apart your intake of carbohydrates during the run. For example, if you take an energy gel every 45 minutes, begin to take them every 50 minutes. On the following long run, extend this to 55 minutes. See how your body responds. Then, gradually begin to reduce the amount of breakfast you have before the long run.

So the idea is to gradually get to the point where you have no breakfast and no carbs during the run.

08/01/2013 at 14:37

I hate the new website by the way, very difficult to read.

Mr Zuvai    pirate
08/01/2013 at 14:39

clearly i cant read!  or im just naturally greedy "aint no one taking my breakfast from me "


08/01/2013 at 14:44


08/01/2013 at 14:45

Hmmm Mr Z I read that as not fueling up before on carbs. Maybe should go the opposite direction and have a big cooked breakfast so fat stores are full? Actually a friend has switched to an atkins/ paleo type diet so...

Lance Armstrong I think had 13 gels allegedly. and some of these caffeine ones.

He didn't look in too good shape after saying he could beat 2:42 though, probably as Minni would say cause he's male

I'm with the always fuel the same group, breakfast, and recovery afterwards. porridge & poached eggs for me. fasting would just wipe me out. Similar to 2old, I usually have water and little lunch packets of dried fruit, with some blok shots as backup but never used.

 O4s congrats.

 Simon hope the foot is okay. Might see you & 2old at Maddog - not running though, recovery after ultra but missus may do the 10k.

 Daren sorry to hear you are out at moment.

 Brol, great running last few days for you, even if the second breakfast thing makes you sound like a hobbit. One that runs a lot. Trail shoes - do you mean the XT4s? I still tend to wear Kanadias, XTs for races only.

08/01/2013 at 14:46
08/01/2013 at 14:48

Bro- that makes sense as does carrying an emergency gel. I remember hitting a wall after 16 miles when I ran in the afternoon without any lunch and I still had 3 miles to get home .-absolute nightmare.

Barry- I took a gel in my last HM just we hit the hilly stage. The caffeine in it gave me an immediate boost and i passed a number of people. It could well be a placaebo effect but it did the job. Congrats on Jantatstic no 2.

Minni-how do you hold the steering wheel?.....ohnegg on your face....I get it

17k treadmill run completed. Overall 7.29mm average but it included a 'Minni interval session' of 5x6mins at 14kmph with 3 min recoveries at 12kmph. Toughest session Ive done for a long while. Janatastic no 2 done.

08/01/2013 at 14:48
chickadeee wrote (see)
Spoons. wrote (see)

I saw someone in a half marathon recently with about 10 gels stuffed in his belt.....

I'd be mortified ...   I tend to take one gel to a HM race but I never eat it. It's more like a peace of mind thing. Although I do hide it in me pocket. Wouldn't be seen dead in a HM with gels

I normally take a couple of jelly babies with me on a half....not because I need them...but because I want them....mmm jelly babies, their my favourite!

08/01/2013 at 14:51

FRC-pity you arent running Maddog but it makes sense after an ultra.Wilmslow HM is full so can you recommend another local one as a warm up for VLM-I cant do Liverpool

08/01/2013 at 15:04

Sarah - I might have been tempted with that if I hadn't just entered the Northumberland one.

Will read that link when I have a mo.

I felt I got my fuelling completely right for the TM marathon and actually took my first gel about 6m in - much sooner than I normally would, then one every 5m after that, plus one about 24m.  (I'd left the gels with a marshall so this was how it worked out on the laps).  I definitely felt the best I ever had during a marathon.


08/01/2013 at 15:17

FRC- did you really just call me a hobbit??? No, I wasn't talking about the adizeros. I wore the other trail shoes I got at the TR on the first day. I wouldn't normally wear them on long runs but it has been so wet and muddy recently... Not a good idea. I only wear adizeros for xc and absolutely love them!

2Old- very impressive TM session.

08/01/2013 at 15:18
Minni wrote (see)

I felt I got my fuelling completely right for the TM marathon and actually took my first gel about 6m in - much sooner than I normally would, then one every 5m after that, plus one about 24m.  (I'd left the gels with a marshall so this was how it worked out on the laps).  I definitely felt the best I ever had during a marathon.

Minni- it must've been the wine the previous night!

08/01/2013 at 15:35

Bro- 'a hobbit'-that made me smile.

Minni- Ive given a lot more thought to gels in my last two marathons and it seems to have made a difference. Do you use gels with caffeine? They work wonders if used a bit before a part of the race where you start to flag mentally eg hills , last few miles of race. I used one just before Birdcage walk in VLM which is where I usually start to want to walk and again before a couple of hills in the second half of Liverpool.

08/01/2013 at 20:11

I'm in the fuel before, during and after camp, I get so hungry if I run over 10miles with nothing to eat. I can do a recovery run with no food but that is just 3 miles. If I do a longer run or speed session then I always have jam and toast up to an hour before I set off. On my return I have a Nesquik strawberry milkshake. I tend to use the gels when I go on my 20mile runs only, any run over 10miles I will use sweets every 5 miles, I'm sure they help

I wont have access to the Internet from Saturday am so will need to get my 6 runs in before then for Jantastic so I will be doing a double day(Only short runs)Blooming holiday getting in the way!

Well done to everyone getting there long runs in, its on my "to do list" when I return.

I hope everyone with niggles get sorted out very soon. 

Barry- Sounds like a great speed session, that one will go on my list.



08/01/2013 at 20:49

I think i took 2 gels and a bottle of LZS before VLM last year, then 6 gels, LZS and half a pack of Clif Shot Bloks during the race, followed by 2 bottles of Rioja afterwards.

Couldn't run further than 13 without something!

8 miles from me tonight inc. strides d & d and logged in Jantastic... Thank you, good night!

08/01/2013 at 20:54
Oomp- what did you have for breakfast before all that? Good 8 miler .
Gaz- have a good break and good to see you are taking your running gear. Blooming holidays can be a nuisance.
08/01/2013 at 20:59

2old- I'm sure it was your fault and a few others on here talking about skiing that made me book up

08/01/2013 at 21:25
Gaz- not sure if you want me to apologise or you're thanking me- where are you going.? Can't beat altitude as part of a marathon training schedule.
08/01/2013 at 21:28
2old - Sorry about Wilmslow, I should of checked first. What about Blackpool half 24th feb, still open, but I can't remember what dates you couldn't race.

FRC - It will be good to meet up, racing or not at the Mad dog.

Yes still massaging with tennis ball.
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