RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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18/01/2011 at 14:57
VO2 max?!!! NO!  General Aerobic with 10 x 100m strides. Don't give me heart attacks DD! Doing to tonight....
18/01/2011 at 15:06

As for the debate on t'other thread.  I'm with you Dave, after running my first marathon at 3.43 I thought I'd just get faster and faster but it ain't happened.  So, as you've said, one must take a good hard look at what can be changed.  Time will tell if the P&D is any better than RW, for me anyway.  What would you say was the main thing you changed in order to get under 3.30? 

I would like to see this issue debated on its own thread rather than Krypton's.  My take on it is she has 'won' this opportunity and part of the package is following the RW schedule, so regardless of who thinks what, that is the job to be done.  

Dubai Dave    pirate
18/01/2011 at 15:18

Minni: Sorry for giving you a heart attack, I agree that I don't think the issue of schedules etc should not be debated on Kryptonites thread, its actually far more relevant here where we have you a experienced runner chasing a goal. What did I do to break that 3-30 barrier? Simple tempo runs of 8 miles or so at 1/2M pace, Intervals and run the last 6 miles of my long runs at MP or quicker, but perhaps the biggest single influence was the arrival in my club of two runners of equal age and ability to me, we have simply driven each other on to places we didn't know we could go.

MM: It takes time to learn to run a pace consistently for more than 3 hours, I have run slightly negative splits in every race over all distances for the past two years, these are not huge negative splits because I held back in the first half but tiny negative splits created by a abililty to a) know what pace I can run for a distance based on my training b) an ability to throw caution to the wind in the last mile! This only comes with experience.

18/01/2011 at 15:37

I think the arrival of the two runners at your club probably had most to do with it.  Its hard to push yourself whereas running with other equal or faster runners makes a big difference.  I think I'm going to do some of my 20 milers with runners from another club for that reason.  They have a group who go out at aim for closer to 8m/m than 9.  Haven't actually asked them yet but I don't think they'll say no!

I don't think I'll ever have the confidence to run a negative split.  I tend to go on the assumption of I'm going to get tired anyway so try and bank some faster miles early on.....  Yes, I know what you're going to say...

seren nos    pirate
18/01/2011 at 15:41

agree that its unfortunate for Krypto.......but I suppose with an open forum these things are part of it and comes with the prize........

not sure why it is on her forum...maybe because its she was struggling with the pace the first few weeks........

It seems to me that that it might have easily been on the upsy daisy one as she has never ever run a marathon and has just started running after a year or so break and they have her going for sub 3:15 ...........

the debate is trying to build up mileage and speed at the same time might be more relevant thats a very fast time to go for your first marathon especially for a female.......

I really like reading all the different debates on training though...even though I have nothing to add

18/01/2011 at 15:47

Oh yes, I'm with you there seren. Great to read about... so long as its not my paces they're debating over

You're going great guns.  You must be really pleased with your training so far.  Did you get your back sorted? 

18/01/2011 at 17:07
Thanks for the clarity DD. I may now give up on marathons as I've long been convinced my best distance is the half marathon.

Minni - I like your style re: positive splits. I've often wondered if I would improve my marathon time by starting at 10km pace, handing on in there for as long as possible and walking the last 5 miles
Dubai Dave    pirate
18/01/2011 at 17:23

Minni / MM: Trust me you need to learn to run even or negative splits, the stomp it and hang on simply does not work.

Having said all of that I'm going to run Dubai marathon on Friday on the back of very little running ( 30 MPW or a year) but a lot of cross training, I will go out at a pace I hope to maintain but I have a horrible suspicion that my lack of endurance may bite me in the arse, though I did manage negative splits in Athens in October off this training but then I didn't actually go out all that hard. Watch this space!

18/01/2011 at 17:55
Interesting reading guys! I have heard that a negative split is the way to go, i tend to be very sensible + evenly pace it throughout, holding to goal pace while everyone else charges off at the start, but not really speeding up much at all in the second half.
Hoping that the tempo runs + marathon paced progressive runs will help train tired legs to pick up the pace when tired.

18/01/2011 at 21:53

Yeah, Mr Spoons... how can something negative be postive

kiwirunner10 wrote (see)
 i tend to be very sensible + evenly pace it throughout, holding to goal pace while everyone else charges off at the start, but not really speeding up much at all in the second half.

Thread swot....

 General aerobic , 8.34 for me tonight at an average of 8.50.  I started off steady with something pulling in the back of my knee (a fell runners injury I suppose...), but it loosened off and managed couple of miles at 7.43 and 7.47. 

Dubai Dave    pirate
19/01/2011 at 06:24

MM: If you think your better at 1/2M's go for it, I should too as I'm clearly best in the 10K to 1/2M bracket, all of the race time predictors say that I should be able to run a 3 -12 to 3-17 marathon based on times for 10 miles / 1/2M funny how I never get close!

Minni: The arrival of the two club mates is the classic chicken and the egg story. The truth  is that without the MP runs, the tempo work, the intervals your not going to improve, club mates just inspire your to work even harder. 

On your run last night did you find those two quicker miles comfortable or was it a effort to get up there?

19/01/2011 at 07:01
My legs felt tired last night for sure and I felt like I'd run faster than I had.  Saying that, the route was hilly and I ran it slightly faster than the last time I did it.  I tried to push up the hills and seemed to manage this better than previously.  I glanced at my pace near the top of one hill and the pace said 7.55, but I'm not saying they were all like that!!  The two miles I hit the faster pace were largely downhill - is that cheating? This is a slightly easier week and I'm not going to make it any harder, especially with the half at the weekend.
Dubai Dave    pirate
19/01/2011 at 07:22

Minni: Your absolutely right not too make a  easier week any harder, looking at the schedule there is nothing much between now and your race which will be a good indicator of where you are.  is the race on a flat course? 

I see that next week has a LT run so it will be interesting to see if you can manage the 6 miles at LT at the same pace as your 1/2M because the two (LT  PAce and 1/2M pace) should be about the same though to be fair I run my LT runs a little slower than 1/2M pace. My last 1/2M was run at close to 7 min/mile and my LT runs tend to be at about 7-10 or 7-15 min/mile.

19/01/2011 at 07:44

Yes, the half is flat. I ran 1:40 on my last half which was at the end of October so I'm hoping for an improvement on that.  Next week's LT is 10 miles with 5 @ LT.  Normally I would do this on a Tuesday and GA on Friday but I think I might swap them around?  This would give me more time to recover from the half?  Actually, I plan to do my long run on the Saturday that week so would therefore aim to do the LT on Thursday.

19/01/2011 at 07:49

Minni -I think the reason people are posting on Alison's thread is to try to get debate going that she can become involved in. If you think of the work and effort that MM put into his thread last year (and you are putting into your thread) then it is a bit disappointing that there is such a lack of input this year. She did win but surely she (and the others) need to fulfill their part too. You are doing it without the enhancement of shiny new trainers and watches

Anyway, I'm giving up!

Of course the downhill paces count on an undulating course as long as you ran up the hills too.

Cut back week for me this week and it's making me feel a bit nervous as if I'm losing fitness.

19/01/2011 at 08:09

CG  It would be good to hear more from Alison, ie whether or not she agrees with schedules, or rather if they are suiting her.   MM did a great job, as did Sue C the year before.  Its great to follow the journey .....  I entered and didn't win and to be honest I'm quite pleased about it.  Seeing the way its going this year I'm not sure I'd enter again.  

What time are you aiming for in York?  I'm I right in thinking you've done it before?   I think my plan will be just to set off and see how it goes...!  Because I don't race that often its hard to be sure of my paces.    The average pace for my last half was 7.38 and my fastest ever was 7.20, so can maybe get something in between.

19/01/2011 at 09:14

Oh loads going on here!!

Well I hit 3:29:42 in Berlin in 2007 - my 8th marathon and since then I've done between 3:34 and 3:42. This years London will be my 14th marathon and I'm sure you all remember my words of resignation on my 10th a few years ago!! Back for more as always... The only thing I did different in Berlin was relax more - 3 core runs a week - still probably had endurance build up off London and I did a negative split as I was only aiming for a pb of 3:35. Funny how it works hey!

This week for me 7 miles on Monday - 3.5 at 9 min mile and 3.5 at 8 min mile - that felt hard. Then yesterday was a 5k threshold run at ave 6:45 pace. Rest today then I'm trying to decide when to do my 18 miler this week - its starting to hang over me a bit. Hate that feeling...

Minni - well done on your run - definitely gettting quicker hey!

CG - good luck for York Half. My first half of the campaign is in 4 weeks. Wokingham. pb there of 1h32 few years ago, but way off that at the moment!

19/01/2011 at 14:46

AA  great to hear your heading the right way down the road to recovery.  In fact, with those runs it sounds like you've fully recovered.  14th marathon?  I do remember you talking about your last  a few years ago!  Will your 18 miler be outside this week or on the treadmill?

DD what will the temperature be like for your marathon on Friday?  Is it a big one?

19/01/2011 at 21:35
Minni - unsure whether it will be treadmill or outside yet. Very wet here. Always feels easier on treadmill. But Mr AA has just left for Leeds as mother in law in intensive care after an operation today as its all gone a bit wrong  so everything now open to change.
19/01/2011 at 21:56
It makes me sad about the SSX thing as it doesn't seem well organised this time around which is down to Fastrack Mgt not being in control of it as the people who held the Lucozade account. I mean, where is the nutritional advice? It's week 5 and there's no Asics nutrition experts to answer questions even though they're being paraded in the latest issue of RW.
Alex and Alison do seem to have struck lucky with their geographical location and they're actually getting coaching from Steve rather then mentoring via the forum. Maria (Upsy Daisy) is the one I feel the most for: she's furthest from anyone up in Scotland, she's struggling with childcare and Bud is frankly nowhere to be seen. He makes Paul Evans look good in comparison!
However, you're right in that you do need to put an awful lot of effort into the thread. Like it or not, this competition is designed to increase traffic to this site and (imo) you need to commit to posting at least once a day. Post your training, post up how you're feeling, answer a few questions and tell people how you're getting on in relation to the schedule. It can be time consuming but that's (to me) an important part of the competition.
If I can make time to do it with a wife and 2 kids and fit in 40-50mpw then everyone can as well
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