RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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10/02/2013 at 21:44

Carrot- re VLM - looks as though we'll all end up in Chandos at the same time after it this year

Minni-she's right, we need to buck up our ideas! it's going to be a long pink train. Where does master Minni get his toughness from I wonder ?

Simon- shame you couldn't run today, better than the ergo of death

Did a 10.5k recovery run tonight  so I wouldn't have to do it tomorrow. 65 miles  for the week. Not sure what I'll fit in this week before I go skiing.

10/02/2013 at 22:08

Too tired to read back properly but congrats to AA, Barry and 2old, plus apologies to any other racers I have missed to date - I'll do a proper trawl though tomorrow.

30 miles D&D'd, in some of the worst conditions I have ever experienced in an ultra.  Rained all day, going from moderate to heavy, cold wind in the last 10 miles and man eating mud up to your shins in places, everywhere else deep lying water and loose rubbly gullies.  My hands were so numb I couldn't even pick up the cake to eat it!!  Proper report tomorrow when I thaw out and my sense of humour is restored

10/02/2013 at 22:21
2old - Nice 10.5k recovery. so with your 10k race, just the 20.5k for the day!

O4S - Christ it must of been bad if you think it was bad. Looking forward to the report. I bet BA wasn't too impressed?

Minni - Nice pic of master Minni. He looks like he's trying to pull the shorts of the winger, I wonder where he learnt that from?
10/02/2013 at 22:30

O4S- watched Henry V tonight and your mud experience sounds just like the mud and  crap that contributed to the victory in Agincourt for the English  -heroic! You should ve had FRC there to feed you coffee and cake like he did for me .

Simon- don't forget the 2.5 mile warm up too 

10/02/2013 at 23:02
2old - Oh yes, I forgot about the warm up, so nearer 25k for the day, and only 3 days after your 20miler, impressive.
Edited: 10/02/2013 at 23:06
11/02/2013 at 06:32
Wahoooo! I love big race weekends, what an awesome one this has been! We've had DD with the tri, Shildon on the ykw (welcome!), Minni, oompa - nice XC, O4S's ultra - sounds gritty, 2old with a fab fast 10k (FRC - hope your OH had a good one too), and barry and AA with a pair of unbelievably fast HMs - super inspiring, AA you must be so pleased! Can't wait to see what this cycles training produces in the spring. Hope you guys wait for me in the chandos...

And great to see you running good distances again kiwi. Well deserved champers.

Sneaked a 5M run in on a provisions trip to town - achy legs and tight calves after my 14 a couple days ago - need to be careful right now as I'm not getting out as often as I'd like and its affecting my ability to cope with the impact of longer runs. Hoping to hitch a heli-lift to a high cabin for most of this next week - will be great for xtraining, but impossible for running!

Odd sight of the day - 2 small kids having a fight in the supermarket with 3 foot sausages...
11/02/2013 at 08:54

Blimey, what a cracking weekend all round! 

DD - cracking way to set the weekend off for the thread. Imagine it must be really good fun to get the chance to ride around a F1 circuit?

Oompa and Minni - well done on your XC efforts. Both sounded like hard work / enjoyable in equal measure. Sounds like you're more successful at chasing skirt than I've ever been Minni! 

2old - well done on your 10k. When Barry says not to worry about 21 seconds, having come so close to 3.15, you should listen to him.

O4S - you are bonkers, but I'm sure you'll look back on it with your usual good humour once the feeling in your hands returns, well done

Barry - that's a fantastic time, you must be very pleased? You also must be odds on to finally crack 3.15 if you keep everything going in the right direction

AA - definitely performance of the week! Get in there, that's absolutely brilliant - mightily impressive and I'm sure you'll crack 1.30 at Reading (unless you're taking Mr M around again, and then you'll crack 2.30).

That's all of the good stuff out of the way... I managed 7.5M on Saturday at 9 min miling and my HR was higher than a tempo run and I was hacking away the whole time. I reduced my LSR yesterday and only managed 12, which was in pouring rain and a battle the whole way - am pretty sure I have a chest infection, just cannot stop coughing, so not very clever from me. 

11/02/2013 at 09:50

Alright all - been away from here for a few days so lots to read!

simon62w wrote (see)
Ant - Using weights equals bigger muscles, which is just extra weight you have to carry round. Hence why top runners/cyclists look like stick insects and are on starvation diets. 

I think at our very-much-non-elite level more muscle mass makes little difference. The fastest runner at our club is quite muscley, for example. In addition to be making those huge gains that some gym guys make requires total dedication (5X plus per week), protein supplements and prob in some cases steroids. So as a runner at our level you can't lose by hitting the weights IMVHO. 

Well done to all the racers at the weekend! Some seriously great results in there

Minni - I've enabled my messages, I thought they were 

I only managed 13 miles on my 'long' run yesterday instead of the scheduled 16, but it was on the treadmill on Sunday after having spent the entire day at the science museum with the family. Just couldn't bear the thought of another 25 mins!

Also did an Evans Ride It MTB 'sportive' on the saturday which was a complete mudfest. That North Downs chalky clay was ridiculous. 


M.r Zuvai    pirate
11/02/2013 at 10:24

DD – great tri – I love racing on car race tracks! Our local duathlon is on the Goodwood race track, great fun is the S-bends and super smooth – can only imagine how great the surface must have been there!

Shildon – nice YKW!

FRC – I have responded! (sorry I have been away all weekend)

AA – Super speedy racing – Whoop! Great running!!

Barry – you beastie – you’re showing us all up again!! Congratulations on a great sub 90

2old – gutted you couldn’t get the result you wanted but that still a very solid performance given the milage that’s in your legs at present! Can you imagine how fast you’d go on fresh legs!! 96th is not to be sniffed at!!

Oompa / Minni – great XC’s followed up by smashing long runs!

Special well done to minni for a long SLOW run  

Spoons – sealskin gloves are a must for winter riding! Hope it clears sharpish

O4S – again you amaze me! Great running in awful conditions – you really do have a mind of steel!!

Ant – that clay is the stuff of nightmares – although I do enjoy the downs for a good bit of MTBing



M.r Zuvai    pirate
11/02/2013 at 10:32

unfortunately a bit of a non-event weekend in terms of running. Travelled up to manchester on friday with the intention of of the race on Saturday. When we got up there my brother and his fiance had finally exchanged keys for their new home so the whole weekend became a frantic house move, then we discovered the sub-basement in the new house wassnt insulated and had just been used as a building site dump, so mutliple trips to the tip then yesterday i spent the entire day crawling around in a 40cm high space fitting insulation!! took all day and i now ache worse than any excercise i've ever taken part in! I have never been more dirty in my life either - i was still cleaninmg dusk/gunk out of my ears this morning!

on the plus side - over the weekend my brother asked me to be his bestman!

11/02/2013 at 10:41

Morning all

KFC- a heli-lift to a high cabin? I will be getting a bus from Geneva. You dont really need to worry about your running fitness or conditioning with all youve been doing even if its low impact-give it a week and all will be good.

Red-yes21 secs is irrelevant in marathon terms.Take care not to overdo things-its not long ago that you were out of the game.Backing off is part of the process

Ant-bet that Sportiv was like cycling in glue, no wonder your 13 mile LR was more than enough

MrZ-not sure if it was the miles,legs, lungs , heart or the mind ...or the lack of beer which held me back?

AA-did you get any bling for your place?


11/02/2013 at 10:45

O4S - Very well done for toughing that one out. You are far tougher, mentally, than me. I would've thrown the towel in long before 30 miles. In fact, like Minni, i would've stopped yesterday at 15 (tight calf) and then 17 (knee), had i not been so far from home! 

Red - A chest infection and this current weather do not make a good combination... Sounds like a couple of "duvet days" to me. 

Newbie question... What is a Chandos??? At a guess, knowing this thread, it MUST BE A PUB????

I've got major doms!!!!!

M.r Zuvai    pirate
11/02/2013 at 10:57

spot on Oomps - it a pub on the opposite corner of trafalgar sq from horse guards parade - its always full of it RW / fetchies/ pirates on marathon day


Dubai Dave    pirate
11/02/2013 at 11:02
Oompa: Chandos is indeed a pub

AA: absolutely stinking and bling to boot

Barry: very nice sir

2old: I sympathise as I too am11 seconds adrift, we will make it. And I don't care what Minni says a sub 40 is more important to me than a sub 3-15 marathon

Minni: nice long run

o4S madness as usual

Spoons; get better gloves

KFC: sounds fairly extreme are you O4S daughter ?

Reds: F 1 circuits are awesome for cycling

So cycle 60 miles this morning, will do club run tonight
11/02/2013 at 11:37

Wow, wow, wow!!  What amazing racing from everyone .  AA, that is an awesome performance, nicely raced.  And as you say, it shows what great shape you're in for Reading.  Those 26 seconds will be eaten up.... 2old, same for you.  21 seconds and more, I'm sure, will be history given normal wind conditions.  Great racing!

Kiwi, I'm laughing!!  Poor you not making spin   But great effort on the party front, and you totally deserved that champagne!

Brolish/Oompa/Minni/Shildon, great effort in the freezing conditions.  Well done.  Just you be careful in that shower, Oompa 

Becs, keep up with the cycling 

Barry, amazing!!  Brilliant running, that's so inspiring.

Weeble/Spoons/Simon, I hope the cross-training and gym went well.  Spoons, how's the hand doing?

2old, I'm sorry to have to tell you you may well be in The Chandos for a while after everyone else has finished waiting for me .  Oh well, at least I can text for a pint when I'm on my way 

O4S, good grief, that sounds hard core!  Amazing effort for sticking with it.

FRC, how did Mrs FRC do?  I hope she enjoyed it!

KFC, sounds amazing!!  Enjoy your heli lift.  I hope the powder's good.

Red, rest up and take care of yourself as it really does sound like you're poorly .  I hope you feel better soon.

Ant, well done for sticking with 13 miles of boredom 

Carrot, that's awesome news 

11/02/2013 at 11:43

My 13 went fine yesterday, if just horrifically slow.  Average pace was 9:46 so I ran 2:07.  I'm not used to going this slowly   On the bright side, my heart rate stayed in the low 140s so it felt extremely easy, it was just frustrating to be running at that pace.

The only thing which has me slightly scared is I could feel my calf again .  It wasn't massively painful, just noticeable which it hasn't been thus far.  I stretched and wore my compression socks and it feels absolutely fine today.  I did a spin class at lunch time and that went fine.  I'll see how it goes for my session tomorrow, I think I'll TM it again just in case...

11/02/2013 at 12:07

Morning all - my core temperature has just about reached normal again!!

Punchbowl Marathon 30 miles [or 20 miles for wimps

It waas raining moderately heavily when we parked the car at the start - it was raining moderately for the first 12 miles, after which it became heavy, then torrential with a cold wind and for the last 200 yds abated to a monsoon .  Temperature soared to 3 degrees at one point but that was about as good as it got.

Route is about 97% off-road and never have I longed for tarmac as much as I did yesterday. The route varied from man-eating mud and small child swallowing puddles, to primordial swamp and water logged sand with lying water - every time you put your foot down you hoped it would come back out with a shoe still attached.

The moderate rain of the first 12 miles was OK, I wore waterproof cycling gloves and my decent heavy duty anorak so although my feet and legs were oozing water my top was merely damp and my hands were warm and dry - had I known then what I know now I would have eaten more at that point.  BA was anxious with all the slipping, sliding, falling over etc but we had agreed to do it together and he didn't slow up as much as I had expected - although to be fair nobody was going fast!

At 12 miles the 20 mile route headed for home and most of the scantily clad and ill prepared runners went that way - which was just as well as later on we had to rescue a couple who were on the verge of hyperthermia = I say goodbye to my spare dry gloves / spare jumper and foil blanket .  Why don't people come prepared for the conditions???  Anyway the rain got heavier in the next section and by the time we got to 20 miles both the anorak and the gloves had taken the hump and stopped being waterproof, although I was still moderately OK temperature wise apart from my hands.

And then it all went horribly wrong!!   The mud was half way up our legs on everystep, where there was no mud we had to wade through calf deep water - the next 6 miles were the most miserable experience you can imagine.  The last checkpoint was just in a car park and I was so cold I had to ask one of the checkpointers to stick a fig roll in my mouth as I went through - didn't dare stop and couldn't feel my hands.

The last 5 miles were on exposed windy heathland and I was so cold I was afraid I would lose track of the route instructions, but much to BA's relief I kept going with him following at a respectful distance .

The finish was like a scene from the trenches - the venue was just a village hall with no showers / changing facilities so I was trying, with numb hands, to get all my clothes off and dry stuff on while hopping around on one foot in a tiny cubicle in the ladies - mud flying everywhere.  My feet and legs were cramping, I couldn't unfasten anything, but finally piled enough layers on to start to feel, if not human at least alive.

Whether that was really running or not is probably debatable - but we are both relatively unscathed, although after nearly 3 hours getting home we could barely get out of the car - 2 toenails will be saying farewell in the next day or so with a couple of other possibles.

AA - I doubt I will manage the first 100 yards with you next week

11/02/2013 at 12:10

O4S - I honeslty don't know how you do it. Well done.

Carrot - so pleased you managed your 18 and are back on track after your quad issue last week.

Minni - well done for sticking with it after a long weekend yesterday.

SS - the fact that you're getting there is great.

Thanks for all your lovely praise yesterday. I don't think 3:15 is anywhere near on the cards though on @45 miles p/w. I also have a real problem with confidence and once my head goes, that's it. We have all been on here for a few years now and its no coincidence that I have now broken every pb in the last 12 months, even at 40!. The encouragement when things go right and support when things go wrong truly have helped me. Resting my calf and backing off the intervals last week meant I went into yesterday slightly more rested I suppose but still a bit surprised today.

Mega DOMS today a 3 mile recovery run was all I could do.


Just read your report O4S - I feel how cold you were. Hope you're ok today.


Edited: 11/02/2013 at 12:13
11/02/2013 at 12:17

O4S - OMG, sounds like a nightmare. Glad you made it out of the trenches alive

AA - you should have great confidence, you're flying. We need Seb Coe's trust in the training pic again at this juncture!

11/02/2013 at 12:17
sorry folks to piss on the parade ... bit of a moan coming on   First time I have to let you guys down for Febulous ... woke up on Sunday morning soaking wet with a massive sore throat. Some rough bug must have got me. Where and when I don't know. I felt great on Saturday and went to bed looking forward to my long run on Sunday despite the MP miles. Of course that wasn't happening. Swallowed anything immune-boosting that I could get my hands on ... garlic .... ginger .... Vit. C.... Echinacea ..... herbal teas ....  and I slept pretty much all day. Feeling better today (am at work) and hope I've beaten the nasty thing. But I missed my scheduled long run so I only got 84% or something, despite my 6 runs. Boo hiss
Now onto more positive things

Minni: great running at the XC. Loved the bit about "no one in a skirt is going to beat me". And more good XC action Oompa!

Carrot: glad to hear you are on the mend  

AA: f*cking hell ! What an amazing run. You rock!!  AND BarryB too - and 8X:XX HM

that's still a great 10k time, 2old

O4S: proper hardcore ultrarunning as always. Well done! No wonder you are tired ...

Speed sheep: don't beat yourself up over speed at the mo. That will come back. I was doing 10mm about a year ago coming back from illness and then ran a comfortable sub 3:30 marathon in October.

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