RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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01/03/2013 at 15:23

Since my LSR this week is both very L and very S, I decided to just do 10 miles today but try to build the pace throughout the run.  Legs still felt tired so the paces weren't great but did get faster.  10 miles at 8.32mm average going 8.41 / 40 / 37 / 36 / 33 / 33 / 26 / 21 / 16 / 40 [cool down].  After the intervals all felt pretty easy and I guess for me that is likely to be the real benefit of forcing myself to do sppedwork.

Minni:  don't try to force it and run before you are better [said the pot to the kettle]

2old:  no gels are good gels in my book!

01/03/2013 at 16:03

Minni - oh no! I hope it's not too is it feeling this afternoon?

O4S - nice progressive pacing.

Oompa - don't risk the run if you're worried. See how it feels tomorrow.

Shildon - sorry, not done that one.

AA / Sarah - don't forget you're not tapered at this stage so it's not going to feel easy. Come VLM day you'll be properly rested and tapered, carbo-loaded etc. DON'T PANIC!!

I'm another Hi5 + caffeine nut

Rest day for me today.

01/03/2013 at 17:51

2old, Great MLR pace. Caffeine affects me badly so no-no, I go very wired and can't sleep. Clif Blok Shots for me as gels, cant do gooey stuff.

Did think the guy taking 4 gels for a half was a little OTT, especially being an ultra runner and used to functioning on so much less, burning fat. 4 gels for a half in 1:21-23 though, surely they'd never fully kick in. Bonkers.

Brol, thanks for the Banff link, its actually on in my home town, near to my Dads. Good luck in the 10k this weekend?

Oompa, I was waiting for part 2 of running with gypsies, dog and old ladies. ??

O4S nothing wrong with sounding like you. PS re:"short" ultras and garmins, I do have a little battery pack you can clip on whilst running so could do 40 or 60 hours.

ShildonRunner - Spen is meant to be pretty hilly.. fairly testing. I chose to do Stafford instead next weekend.

Minni hope you are feeling better, get it checked out.

Anyone seen these silly bouncy Adidas trainers that have just come out for £110?
Madness, I know a few who have gone for them already (because they will be soooo much faster), they don't realise there is an Adios version coming out in July - the shoe all the Kenyans are using. Bouncy for me equals achilles or knee injuries anyway.

Speed strength on Wednesday was hard work but did do heaviest back squats ever amongst other exercises and came out very chilled. Thursday tempo run 7 miles 5 @~7:00 with 2 @ ~6:40. 5-6 miles + circuit tomorrow, 16-18miles Sunday then got another PT session Monday.

Who else is racing this weekend? Brol (avoid London everyone)/ Mr Brol smackdown! Wonder if its on Pay Per View... Mr Brol is sub 40 10k when fit so going to be epic.

01/03/2013 at 18:24

Trapped nerve hasn't got any worse today - I know its a trapped nerve because I've had it before and its often released after some faster running.  Nothing today since its a rest day but hopefully 6m tomorrow will relieve it.

Sarah - you'll be fine in 7 weeks.  AA - I can excuse Sarah since this is only her second marathon but you are experienced enough to know it does feel hard in training and its so much easier on marathon day.

Chick - nice lie in before the double.

Redders - great to see you getting some faster miles in there.  I bet you enjoy it with a new buddy tomorrow.

Must remember to do Marchvelitshearlyoverous this weekend.

01/03/2013 at 18:29
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)

Hi Minne

The food that  I have  posted will appear a lot for you as you only weigh 115lb . For you I would only recommend you have 400-500g when carb loading and as mentioned above cut out all the extras fat and even protein to keep the overall calories down,

So a plan for you could look like this:

Breakfast: 50g cereal & 150ml milk with one slice of toast with honey/jam and 200ml of fruit juice.

Snack: 500ml milkshake or medium banana and 500ml of fruit juice/squash/cordial

Lunch: 2 slice of thick bread with banana and honey filling , 150g pot of yogurt or medium baked potato and beans

Snack: bagel and honey/jam (split in tow and have over full afternoon) and 500ml of cordial/squash.

Evening meal: 90g dried weight pasta/rice and tomato based  sauce  and 300ml of fruit juice or a chopped fruit & pot of yoghurt (150-200g)

Before bed: ceral bar or 1 slice of toast and jam.

This is around 450g of carbs.

Hope this helps.

I now have my carbo loading diet sorted!

01/03/2013 at 19:06

Blimey, Minni, you've been in the wars!  I hope your head's feeling a bit better and the nerve sorts itself out.

DD, hope you enjoyed the nags.  We went too, it was a nice evening out!  OH's firm did a corporate thing there so we had 'prizes'.  Kinda lost something without the fervered bookies...  Race well tomorrow 

2old, nice speedster MLR I use SIS.  That's the only sort of iso gel I've tried and I really like them.  Well, 'like' is a relative term, you understand.  I couldn't cope with anything concentrated as I found them too sickly, likewise any sort of jelly block.  I don't like the taste of gels with caffeine in and to be honest, the strength I have my coffee is probably way enough caffeine for me in a day.  Also, given that I have such strong coffee, I don't think I'd get any performance advantage from a caffeinated gel.  Having read everyone else seems to be a Hi5 addict, I'm feeling left out.  DD, do they sell them out here?  I've never seen them.  I buy SIS in the UK and bring them back with me.

Red, a round of drinks is a good result from a quiz   Great news on building up nicely.

Chick, sounds like a good idea to break your run up.  Enjoy the reps!

Oompa, how's the knee?

AA, Freemers is right when she says you're not rested at this stage so it's bound to feel tough (says she who's having a wobble right now!!)  You have been doing some wicked sessions recently and your pacing today looked brilliant even though you found it tough.  Looks like you're in a good place, even though it might not feel like it 

FRC, sounds like you're doing well on your strength stuff.

Rest day for me today.  Given yesterday's wobble, I thought it best to back right off.  I was going to the gym and do a spin session but a morning of racing round Dubai like a lunatic convinced me I was actually really tired and a nap would be more beneficial.  I am going to spin tomorrow and then a 45 min recovery run at some point in the afternoon.  I am going to take it slowly!

01/03/2013 at 19:20
FRC - No sign of part 2 yet, but Sunday is almost upon us

Ant - I've decided to do the Spitfire 20 this Sunday, so if you see a little, fat orange bloke running at anything quicker than 8.00 min/ml pace, KICK HIM !!
Are you definitely running?

12 mile MLR d & d, with the aid of k-tape on the knee but it felt a bit "tweaky" on the hills... Feels like it'll collapse if you catch a rut or bump??
01/03/2013 at 21:34

Minni - what's with all the yoghurt? Not a lot of carbs in yoghurt.... A lot of bread there as well. No nutrients in bread. And no vegetables at all? Hmmmm.....

01/03/2013 at 22:52
It's all pointing to a lot of poo!
01/03/2013 at 23:05

Carb loading?  Looks like a suspciously low amount of food to me!

Gels?  devils work - i'm with O4S on this one.  

I've felt really tired the last few days, been generally active and probably racking up about 30 miles a day on the bike, but no 'proper' training.  Hoping I'll have enough steam for my LSR on Sunday 

Minni - hope the head/nerve is feeling better

02/03/2013 at 00:15
Looks very low to me too.. Where is the cheese garlic bread?
Actually a lot of bread in there would make me feel really sluggish digestion wise. There is protein in the milkshake also, plus can be a lot of calories.
It has fruit juice or cordial so I assume that's the added sugar variety to improve hydration?
02/03/2013 at 08:04
Thanks freemers and minni. I know your both right but it still doesn't stop you from thinking....maybe I should stop thinking!

FRC I really don't understand, one minute their saying that barefooted running is the best and their bringing minimal trainers out and then the next their inventing bouncy trainers...I'm with you on this one, I reckon their not going to be good on the knees.

Minni glad to hear that you've had the same problem before and you know how to treat it...I'm hoping your 6miles today helps resolve it and you have a great race tomorrow.

Legs feeling fine after yesterday but I was in compression socks and tights all evening and did some foam rollering. Rest day for me today although I may walk in to town after work (3-4 miles away)
02/03/2013 at 08:20
Forgot to say, spoons, Ruth has been saying on all the asics threads to avoid all fruit and veg (and fibre) the day before the race and replace that and most of your protein with carbs...supposedly so your Bowels are happy on marathon day and you get enough carbs without increasing your calorie intake.
02/03/2013 at 08:28
Fit-Running-Cat wrote (see)

Anyone seen these silly bouncy Adidas trainers that have just come out for £110?
Madness, I know a few who have gone for them already (because they will be soooo much faster), they don't realise there is an Adios version coming out in July - the shoe all the Kenyans are using. Bouncy for me equals achilles or knee injuries anyway.


Heard about those on MT and though what a stupid marketing idea ... I bet there's loads of idiots going for them though. Like people go for dieting aids ... I prefer my shoes giving me feedback on the surface I'm running on. A bit like when I'm driving   hard sporty suspension rules (I used to drive a Porsche 911 many years ago).

Minni wrote (see)
It's all pointing to a lot of poo!

    90g of pasta (dried weight) is nothing though! My usual portion is 150-200g (and that's when I'm NOT carb loading ). Glad you know what causes the pain. Hope you can run it away!!

Had a great tempo sesh last night -  5 x 1200 off 2 min recoveries ended up with 4:51, 4:47, 4:48, 4:49 and 4:47 (that's 6:31 to 6:25 pace ) and I can safely say that I have never run any reps so fast and yet felt so strong. Usually my last rep is my slowest and I'm about to die. Yesterday I could have easily done another one or two. Veeeery pleased

Oompa: hope the knee survived the 12 miler

02/03/2013 at 10:01
Chick - So you like your shoes like a 911, firm, and sporty, with a lively rear end! Hehe.

Minni - Has the Trout worked on your groin yet?
Edited: 02/03/2013 at 10:04
02/03/2013 at 10:13

Oompa - nice one. I'll look out for you - club vest? I will be in a Trent park vest (green/white). I prepared for the race by staying up playing xbox till 3 in the morning last night  and today I am games master for my sons birthday party with 8 8 year olds playing just dance..

Re all this talk about gels. I didn't used to use them, but took them up last year - and I find they really work. I use hi5 as well - they are good because they are quite small and the gel is quite palatable. In fact a key part of my training this year has been to train myself to be able to consume more of them in the race without it upsetting my stomach. I am convinced that can be trained - and that seems to be the case for me so far. 

02/03/2013 at 12:18

Chick -  Great session, very speedy.

Minni - Hope you're feeling better.

AA/Sarah - The form you have shown recently indicates you are training well. Carry on and you will be fine come VLM.

3 hours x training for me this morning, 1st hour at 12Kmh, then 13 kmh for the second and 14kmh for the last.

02/03/2013 at 12:19

Chick - Cracking intervals. Knee felt a bit odd after the 12 but feels fine again this morning.

Ant - Lingfield RC vest - White with green and red vertical strips at the sides. What's your race no. or are you doing a "pay & play" as well?

02/03/2013 at 12:40

Sarah - not sure about missing my pre marathon breakfast of porridge with apricots, an apple and a banana. I don't remember ever having any bowel issues. The only time I do is if I have more than 3 pints of ale the night before!

1.5 hours on the turbo trainer this morning. 

02/03/2013 at 12:41

Great 1200s Chickadee

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