RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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01/03/2013 at 11:20

Minni-looks like RICE time and lots of fingers crossed for you. Be careful .Remember your main goal is VLM sub 3.15.

Decided that I have to give up gels with caffeine after realising the ones I use have more caffeine in than Red Bull and I used 4 in my last marathon..No wonder I was elated ! Dont want to put my heart under any more strain than necessary. What gels does everyone use? If any?

238 miles ran in Feb, highest mileage for any Feb . Zero for March so far

01/03/2013 at 11:21

2old -  Nice pacy 15 miler, I did n't fancy the 6 day option either. I used to use SIS Go Gels but have changed to the High5 IsoGel as they are more liquid and easier to take.

Minni -  Don't wait too long to get some specialist advice.

X training this morning.  Forget to say my eldest passed her driving test this week, needless to say she is very pleased with herself. 

Edited: 01/03/2013 at 11:24
01/03/2013 at 11:40

Minni – you really are overdue some good luck, what with course measurements, no spare time, banging your head and now your leg. I can’t advise on trapped nerves, but fingers crossed you can get it sorted quickly.

Barry - congratulations on having a new chauffeur in the family!

2Old - I used to use the Lucozade ones but absolutely hate them. They are so sharp and thick I find them hard to digest. I've just switched to High5 ones as they use them in the marathon I'm doing, and have found them much, much better with plenty of choice of flavours too. You can get a box of them quite cheap on Wiggle.

SS – unfortunately we didn’t win the quiz, although we did win a round of drinks as a spot prize, which is far more important!

I had a couple of twinges in the knee doing my short commute run back on Tuesday which I’m sure was related to tempo/hills at the weekend. So I decided to change my run yesterday morning to 6M on trails instead. It seems to have done the trick as felt back to normal this morning.

This week was the start of trying to do 2 bits of quality per week, but I’m still a bit wary at the moment so am not trying intervals yet. Ended up doing 5M this morning, building progressively (8.44, 8.15, 7.56, 7.35, 7.27) and it all felt natural and good so fingers crossed. We’ll see how well the LSR goes this weekend – bad news is I’ve got to move it to tomorrow (I hate LSRs on Saturday’s), but good news is I’ve got a new running buddy to keep me company for most of it. 

Edited: 01/03/2013 at 11:41
01/03/2013 at 12:09

Sorry Minni - I've no idea. Hope you sort it out.....

DD - hold the Brownlee underwater for a couple of minutes at the start

01/03/2013 at 12:52

Ouch, Minni - hope you can sort the leg . Have you tried stretching the hip flexors?

2old: great MLR - I wish 7:20 was my easy pace . Nice Feb. mileage. I did very similar: 242 all in all for me.

2old/Redders/Barry: me too re. High5 Iso gels - they are great. SIS are good too, but not for sale in Germany for some strange reason . I usually take 1 or 2 High5s with caffeine for the final stages. More often than not I chuck them coz I feel  already and can't face any more sweet goo ...  they are more like a mental aid.
BarryB: congrats to Miss B on her driving test.

Schedule says 12 with 5 x 1200s but I found this morning that I needed a bit more rest after a stressful 4 days at work. So I slept in. Then I just ran 5 easy ones at lunchtime and will do 7 with the reps tonight.

Edited: 01/03/2013 at 12:54
01/03/2013 at 13:36

Minni - Hope the head and groin get better soon. Never had a trapped nerve, but did have my left itb lock solid once, and acupuncture cured it??

2old - Terrific MLR pace. That must fill you with confidence for your mara?

Red - Nice progressive run. Is the new running buddy hot??? 

I have been using High 5 w/caffeine for a few years now and they're pretty good, but if i can find a way of carrying them (can't find a belt nor shorts that'll hold 'em), i'm gonna switch allegiance to GU gels... No reason other than they're yummy!!! YES I AM THAT SHALLOW! 

Had a massage last night and she noticed that my right knee was puffy and quite sore. Must admit that i hadn't really noticed it but as is the way with these things, it's now playing on my mind as it's still sore, despite r.i.c.e last night. Not sure whether i should do scheduled 12 mile MLR this evening or not?

01/03/2013 at 13:36

Hi guys seems like the usual marathon injuries are rearing their ugly heads. Hope everybodies clears up in time for race days.

Also some nice sessions recorded this week by all.

Question. In previous marathons i have gone to Hull for my 20 miler but have entered Spen next weekend. Anyone run it and is it a good course?

01/03/2013 at 14:10

2Old- it's Viper Active maxifuel or SIS gels for me.

Minni- ouch, sorry never experienced anything like this. Hope you're on the mend.

Red- good luck with the LSR tomorrow. I quite enjoy doing them on Saturday, means I can have some guilt free wine afterwards.

Oompa- take it easy with the knee.

01/03/2013 at 14:32

Happy March everyone, it's the monster mile month. I have major marathon envy at the moment towards anyone racing next month.

2Old I like Sis or Gu. Although I like the caffeinated varieties from both, especially Gu's espresso flavour. This might sound naive but does caffeine on race day really put the heart under that much more pressure?

Sounds painful Minni, hope you get it resolved.

Oompa is it affecting your gait at all? If it is, I'd back off the MLR.


01/03/2013 at 14:48

Weeble - Don't think it's affecting my gait as i only noticed it after my masseuse said it looked sore and puffy? I think i'll adopt the "suck it and see" approach to my MLR.

01/03/2013 at 14:56

Minni - you poor thing . Try stretching and self massage before icing a bit.

Chick - wise decision. Reps on a Friday night - hardcore

I'm a Hi5 gel with caffine lover too.

Barry - congrats on your new chaffeur!

18 miler today ave 7:57. Took the advice on here and worked it around my course so my mp miles would be on the easier bit: Plan steady/mp:: 4 steady/4 mp/2 steady/4 mp/2 steady/ 2mp
8;22 8;32 8;24 8;31  7;27 7;07 7;26 7;24  8;24 8;19  7;28 7;26 7;39 7;22  8;16 8;57 (started to feel really dizzy and crap) 7;56 8;01
Only took 1 gel @ 10 miles. Felt like I had the stuffing knocked out of me. I can't do that pace for 26 mkiles. It seemed so much easier doing it at Bramley from 10-20 miles. Just a bad day I suppose

01/03/2013 at 15:11
Brolish wrote (see)

Had a great time at the Banff Film Festival again last night. A bit sleep deprived after this week but it was well worth it. If you like this kind of thing and there's one close to you I would very much recommend it.

Ive missed my local one, looked quite good aswell 

Minni are you sure its a trapped nerve and not a torn muscle/strain?

2Old Thats a hel of a lot of miles. I agree with chick 7:20 as an easy pace  (dreaming). I used shot blocks last year. I tried them again today for the first time since VLM last year and they seemed ok. Only problem with that they are quite chewy and you need water with them, but their ok on the stomach and very palatable. I keep meaning to try the high5 as they seem to be everyones favourite but im worried about trying them and them not agreeing with me on a long run and it ruining my run!

AA I was thinking that...I did 20 miles @ an average 8:33 the hell am i going to do 26.2 at 7:50 min/mls!!!!

Edited: 01/03/2013 at 15:11
01/03/2013 at 15:23

Since my LSR this week is both very L and very S, I decided to just do 10 miles today but try to build the pace throughout the run.  Legs still felt tired so the paces weren't great but did get faster.  10 miles at 8.32mm average going 8.41 / 40 / 37 / 36 / 33 / 33 / 26 / 21 / 16 / 40 [cool down].  After the intervals all felt pretty easy and I guess for me that is likely to be the real benefit of forcing myself to do sppedwork.

Minni:  don't try to force it and run before you are better [said the pot to the kettle]

2old:  no gels are good gels in my book!

01/03/2013 at 16:03

Minni - oh no! I hope it's not too is it feeling this afternoon?

O4S - nice progressive pacing.

Oompa - don't risk the run if you're worried. See how it feels tomorrow.

Shildon - sorry, not done that one.

AA / Sarah - don't forget you're not tapered at this stage so it's not going to feel easy. Come VLM day you'll be properly rested and tapered, carbo-loaded etc. DON'T PANIC!!

I'm another Hi5 + caffeine nut

Rest day for me today.

01/03/2013 at 17:51

2old, Great MLR pace. Caffeine affects me badly so no-no, I go very wired and can't sleep. Clif Blok Shots for me as gels, cant do gooey stuff.

Did think the guy taking 4 gels for a half was a little OTT, especially being an ultra runner and used to functioning on so much less, burning fat. 4 gels for a half in 1:21-23 though, surely they'd never fully kick in. Bonkers.

Brol, thanks for the Banff link, its actually on in my home town, near to my Dads. Good luck in the 10k this weekend?

Oompa, I was waiting for part 2 of running with gypsies, dog and old ladies. ??

O4S nothing wrong with sounding like you. PS re:"short" ultras and garmins, I do have a little battery pack you can clip on whilst running so could do 40 or 60 hours.

ShildonRunner - Spen is meant to be pretty hilly.. fairly testing. I chose to do Stafford instead next weekend.

Minni hope you are feeling better, get it checked out.

Anyone seen these silly bouncy Adidas trainers that have just come out for £110?
Madness, I know a few who have gone for them already (because they will be soooo much faster), they don't realise there is an Adios version coming out in July - the shoe all the Kenyans are using. Bouncy for me equals achilles or knee injuries anyway.

Speed strength on Wednesday was hard work but did do heaviest back squats ever amongst other exercises and came out very chilled. Thursday tempo run 7 miles 5 @~7:00 with 2 @ ~6:40. 5-6 miles + circuit tomorrow, 16-18miles Sunday then got another PT session Monday.

Who else is racing this weekend? Brol (avoid London everyone)/ Mr Brol smackdown! Wonder if its on Pay Per View... Mr Brol is sub 40 10k when fit so going to be epic.

01/03/2013 at 18:24

Trapped nerve hasn't got any worse today - I know its a trapped nerve because I've had it before and its often released after some faster running.  Nothing today since its a rest day but hopefully 6m tomorrow will relieve it.

Sarah - you'll be fine in 7 weeks.  AA - I can excuse Sarah since this is only her second marathon but you are experienced enough to know it does feel hard in training and its so much easier on marathon day.

Chick - nice lie in before the double.

Redders - great to see you getting some faster miles in there.  I bet you enjoy it with a new buddy tomorrow.

Must remember to do Marchvelitshearlyoverous this weekend.

01/03/2013 at 18:29
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)

Hi Minne

The food that  I have  posted will appear a lot for you as you only weigh 115lb . For you I would only recommend you have 400-500g when carb loading and as mentioned above cut out all the extras fat and even protein to keep the overall calories down,

So a plan for you could look like this:

Breakfast: 50g cereal & 150ml milk with one slice of toast with honey/jam and 200ml of fruit juice.

Snack: 500ml milkshake or medium banana and 500ml of fruit juice/squash/cordial

Lunch: 2 slice of thick bread with banana and honey filling , 150g pot of yogurt or medium baked potato and beans

Snack: bagel and honey/jam (split in tow and have over full afternoon) and 500ml of cordial/squash.

Evening meal: 90g dried weight pasta/rice and tomato based  sauce  and 300ml of fruit juice or a chopped fruit & pot of yoghurt (150-200g)

Before bed: ceral bar or 1 slice of toast and jam.

This is around 450g of carbs.

Hope this helps.

I now have my carbo loading diet sorted!

01/03/2013 at 19:06

Blimey, Minni, you've been in the wars!  I hope your head's feeling a bit better and the nerve sorts itself out.

DD, hope you enjoyed the nags.  We went too, it was a nice evening out!  OH's firm did a corporate thing there so we had 'prizes'.  Kinda lost something without the fervered bookies...  Race well tomorrow 

2old, nice speedster MLR I use SIS.  That's the only sort of iso gel I've tried and I really like them.  Well, 'like' is a relative term, you understand.  I couldn't cope with anything concentrated as I found them too sickly, likewise any sort of jelly block.  I don't like the taste of gels with caffeine in and to be honest, the strength I have my coffee is probably way enough caffeine for me in a day.  Also, given that I have such strong coffee, I don't think I'd get any performance advantage from a caffeinated gel.  Having read everyone else seems to be a Hi5 addict, I'm feeling left out.  DD, do they sell them out here?  I've never seen them.  I buy SIS in the UK and bring them back with me.

Red, a round of drinks is a good result from a quiz   Great news on building up nicely.

Chick, sounds like a good idea to break your run up.  Enjoy the reps!

Oompa, how's the knee?

AA, Freemers is right when she says you're not rested at this stage so it's bound to feel tough (says she who's having a wobble right now!!)  You have been doing some wicked sessions recently and your pacing today looked brilliant even though you found it tough.  Looks like you're in a good place, even though it might not feel like it 

FRC, sounds like you're doing well on your strength stuff.

Rest day for me today.  Given yesterday's wobble, I thought it best to back right off.  I was going to the gym and do a spin session but a morning of racing round Dubai like a lunatic convinced me I was actually really tired and a nap would be more beneficial.  I am going to spin tomorrow and then a 45 min recovery run at some point in the afternoon.  I am going to take it slowly!

01/03/2013 at 19:20
FRC - No sign of part 2 yet, but Sunday is almost upon us

Ant - I've decided to do the Spitfire 20 this Sunday, so if you see a little, fat orange bloke running at anything quicker than 8.00 min/ml pace, KICK HIM !!
Are you definitely running?

12 mile MLR d & d, with the aid of k-tape on the knee but it felt a bit "tweaky" on the hills... Feels like it'll collapse if you catch a rut or bump??
01/03/2013 at 21:34

Minni - what's with all the yoghurt? Not a lot of carbs in yoghurt.... A lot of bread there as well. No nutrients in bread. And no vegetables at all? Hmmmm.....

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