RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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12/03/2013 at 22:02
Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

He needs to be inside 3:55, which coincidentally is the same as your BQ time for next year's race.

CD you never reveal a lady's BQ age in public!

Barry and Oompa, sorry to hear of your injuries, fingers crossed for both of you. Hopefully the x-training won't be required for long, and you'll probably retain more fitness than you'd think.

Swimming tonight, I've decided to not even try and get my marchelous 1 miles in until my hip is completely pain free.

12/03/2013 at 22:07

AA- you will be fine. I always feel a bit wobbly after a holiday. 1.30 here she comes. I'll be eating your dust!

Barry- not good news re the calf. Hope the other physio helps.

Minni- 9th lady. Very nice indeed.

SS- your speed is coming back remarkably fast. Very nice intervals!

Carrot- well done on banking this session despite the appearance of CNBA fairy.


I didn't manage to do my 3m during lunch, work got in the way. Had to do it in the evening instead. It was actually ok, still cold but at least no head on arctic wind.

12/03/2013 at 22:13
Hi All back from a weekend in Spain. Who said the rain always falls on the plain? It was on the coast. Still it was a lot warmer than here
Some fantastic racing and running this weekend when legs are battered and tired
Minni- excellent HM. Looking mor like your old self. I think a rest period even if enforced is necessary along the road to London/ Paris. Have confidence that 3.15 is there for you now. Last year I did 3.14 after a HM time identical to yours and mine was nowhere near as tough. Great placing too
Carrot - brilliant HM ,so what marathon time do you fancy?
Free- you did a great job with your pupil and as you say time to speed her up
Col,blade,Free ,SS,great long running
Oomph- oh no hope you mend quickly- not sure about your massage guy . Maybe a few days total rest before heavy cross training?
Barry - I agree that another physio is required. Don't give up hope
DD- good bit of sandblasting there
AA- no bottling it now. You can do it...think of those outstanding runs a few weeks ago. The long flight will have tightened your hammy.give them a couple of days to loosen up and you'll be fine. Don't envy your jetlag though
FRC- well organised running by you at that 20 race. It's a question of by how much you smash 3.15 in my opinion. Do you need 3.10 or 3.15 for GFA. By the way the cat lives! Going to miss your cake at the HM next weekend
Bro- I know what you mean about feeling guilty I'm not working hard enough and I only took two days off .... Rest I needed too. Keep with it. Nearly there
Carrot- beating te CNBA fairy is always rewarding. Nice intervals. Nothing wrong with the TM in my view
SS-nice running ..much more positive than last week
KFC- as long as you listen to you're body and don't take risks you'll be fine.
After unpacking decided to get my LR in early this week...not 20 for a did 3 loops of 6.2 miles each.. 47.15, 46.15 and 47.00 ,18.6 miles 7.33 mm average. So it looks like 4 x10k @45 mins is going to take some doing though there was a bit of a headwind at times.....excuses ,excuses...must try harder .

13/03/2013 at 01:06

Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

It's the people going out in t-shirts when it's cold who end up complaining that their marathon was a 'scorcher' when it nudges 20ºC!  Maybe the youngsters can handle it better, but I like to wrap up.


Hmmm. Funny you should say that. My lips are sealed, buff in the way

Barry & Oompa fingers crossed on the calfs. Oompa, How long rest for tear - 7-10 days till light run?

Freemers, you can definitely do for sub 3:20, so why not 3:15 with VLM crowd?

Brol, bonkers 10k/ mp session. If it doesn't kill you I suppose...

AA - fitness doesn't leave you quickly.. rest may have done you good so sub 1:30 still on. Warm those hamstrings up though beforehand ! Michael Johnson used to do 1hr warm up before a 20 second race. What do you do normally?

SS - excellent tempo run for you, sub 47m 10k means sub 4 easy for you, if not 3:40-3:45? Just get the long stuff right.

oh the carb loading diet thread mentioned was here

kfc IMO, Forget the YKW? Long runs far more important right now. If you want to do speed, 3-4 x mile intervals or halves always more productive for me.

2old, although I'm not doing Liverpool half, I will be out supporting. You might get lucky with coffee and cake again though I'm watching out for friends. 3 x 47m 10ks is fine, once you're tapered, doable. Half target?

Nice that a few of you think that sub 3:15 is "easy" or a doddle... its not! Overconfidence is worst enemy, setting off too fast - running pals hubby thought he was on for sub 3 going off too fast and ended up blind (really) by mile 24...  so going for safe VLM target for VLM and just aiming for sub 3:15, which is GFA for me. Might take me a few goes to get it. In this for the long term, 20-30+ years. O4S very inspiring.

Edited: 13/03/2013 at 01:08
13/03/2013 at 01:11

Stafford 20 miler -

Unsure whether to go for steady or sections@MP on this 3 lap course (8/6/6), cold wet sleet windy too. Achilles has been a bit sore so main aim to run safely. Didn't risk racing flats and also tried running without hand water bottle for first time.

A brief visit from the CBA fairy during first mile or so. Fast first mile - too fast - but really not got my head together, cold, wet and really didn't want to be there, why was I doing this? Mile 2 hill knuckled down, everything clicked and mindset completely different. Undulating course to me (approx 1100ft over 3 laps I found out later) so running consistent splits of MP plus 10-15 seconds just impossible. Lady in pink base sleeved top & white t shirt went past, let her go, I wasn't racing so ignored others and ran on feel, comfortable, not breathing hard. One pack of clif blok shots with me, 6 cubes, taking one, third of a gel, every 3-4 miles.

Water stops with plastic cups. Ah...try drinking and fail miserably so used to my trusty bottle. More water over me than down throat... Forgot to pinch cup, hands now freezing. A steep down section and had to be careful not to go too fast and blow energy on these knowing most of the course and up sections would be seen twice more. Through first lap in under an hour, two Stafford club runners went past but stayed within 200-300m. Went through the 10 mile mid way mark in 1hr 14 mins - really did do a double take. Running felt effortless though, well within safety zone, no twinges from Achilles but expected to slow next 2 laps.

Over the next 6 miles similar, by end of lap 2 had caught the two Stafford guys up, and starting to go past other runners, no change in effort from me though. On to lap 3, going up hill see lady with pink top,  her feet all over the place. Also pick up a young Stafford runner who seems to be using me as pacer. Cheeky. He is breathing hard, I'm just breathing naturally..  2 miles to go, pick the pace up, fast finish always good to practice, especially doing MP up a reasonable hill
Bit of panic trying to find the turning point for finish line, but little sprint to finish, say hello to missus and get some water. Felt very fresh, lots spare. Youngster behind me is on his back, wiped out, quick handshake and even thanked me. I did giggle, he was 18-20 years younger and tiny 8.5 stone wet. Finished in 2:28:15 so good pace overall, no fade, avg 7:24mm, a 10 minute PB and not even racing or an easy course I thought. Great way to sharpen up for London, coping with conditions, course and race surges.

Edited: 13/03/2013 at 01:12
13/03/2013 at 01:14

Split     Time     Elev+     Elev- (ft)
1     07:01     54     68
2     07:45     108     4
3     07:25     62     92
4     07:06     42     144
5     07:51     128     8
6     07:13     19     104
7     07:15     19     58
8     07:21     49     29
9     07:39     84     34
10     07:46     102     30
11     07:24     28     37
12     07:14     17     105
13     07:18     17     57
14     07:23     54     28
15     07:51     89     24
16     07:46     86     31
17     07:08     17     65
18     07:03     19     97
19     07:22     19     46
20     07:18     74     38
Summary     02:28:15      1,085     1,100

Not Flat !

13/03/2013 at 06:01
FRC - nice well placed 20. 3:15 gotta be in your sites.

SS - great to see you being so positive and the results in your training coming through.

KFC - the 20 would be more important than the YKW. But like 2old says, listen to your body and you'll be ok.

Carrot - great intervals and only 2 days after a HM! Recovered well then

Minni - great placing at the weekend . It's all coming together. Nice happy photos too

Spoons - fantastic stuff. I'm so chuffed for you

2old - what great motivation to come back from holiday and go out for an 18 miler. Obviously didn't have to worry about all the washing etc

Thought I had done so well with the jet lag but I've now been awake for 2 hours. All a bit messed up still. I'm gonna do the minni special this morning and try and wake my legs up a bit. 5 mins HMP then 5 mins MP and repeat.
13/03/2013 at 08:08

FRC - Very nice paced 20 and you are looking in good form for 3:15 but you are right not to think it is a given.  I have been well inside 2:30 at 20 on a few occassions but not gone sub 3:15 yet.

Oompa - Me and you sub 3:?? for VLM then. Hope you make a speedy recovery.

Minni - Good result from Sunday, link for donations

2old - welcome back and nice pacy long run.

SS - Nice tempo run.

60 mins on the x trainer for me this morning.

Dubai Dave    pirate
13/03/2013 at 08:31


Oompa: You answered your own question, if Countdown has been on forever and I don't what it is then I must have been in Dubai forever! (14 years)

Carrot: Well done for beating the CNBA fairy

Spoons: You are well on the road back

AA: As long as the jet lag hasn't got you you are going to be fine.

FRC: Nice report

2Old: Should have stayed in Spain, great motivationj to get out for a LR on return

O4S: You paint such a comforting view of life in the UK... Not.

So out last night in one of Dubai's classier hotels with Mrs DD's cousin, home very late so this mornings Masters Swim session was a triumph of will over body, that was my first masters swim session in two years and TBH it wasn't as bad as I remember so I must have got better.

Will do hill repeats tonight with Comrade bound friends.


13/03/2013 at 09:21

Barry - sorry to hear about the ongoing problem with your calf. Hopefully the other physio will work some magic and get you going again.

Oopma - fingers crossed you can recover fairly quickly. What is the recovery period? 

O4S -  kettlebells is a strength and conditioning class using a kettlebell as a weight. I started the class just over a year ago to address weakness in my core. I have since had a biomechanical assessment which highlighted glute and hip weakness. I was given exercises to address these.

Brolish - wow that is some session. Well done on hitting the paces.

Speed Sheep - great tempo run. Your training is showing great results.

FRC - that is a cracking 20m run. Extremely well paced and bodes very well for a sub 3:15 attempt and your GFA. 

2old - another great run by you. Very good pacing.

Minni - fantastic half marathon in very tough conditions. Looks like you are well and truly back on course for your marathon target. Well done.

Track session for me last night. 4 x 1m with 2 mins recovery. I was aiming for 6:20 per mile and managed 6:27, 6:17, 6:19, and 6:19. The last one was hard work! 13m MLR planned for tonight at 8:40s pace.



13/03/2013 at 09:31
DD - was that swim session with that trainer you had? Can't remember the name but something along the lines of pyscho!!

Col - sounds like a great track session.

Well just finished my minni special. 10 mins warm up then 5 mins @6:48 then 5 mins @7:17. Repeated for 45 minutes. Not easy but did it. Need to find some confidence for Sunday somehow
13/03/2013 at 09:53

Morning all

FRC-.You can see where the hills were from your splits.Clearly there was no eye balls out stuff in there.You are right 3.15 isnt to be taken for granted and the key is to be sensible at the start, let others push the pace you want andmaintain an even as pace as possible. As  3.15 is your GFA target it could be suicide aiming to smash that target and missing the one that really matters. Saying that my first sub 3.15 came on the back of a 1.29 ,20 mile race and then I did 3.11. That was Boston which apart from some big hills around 17-18 miles is pretty fast net down hill. Once youve got a GFA  you know youve got two years of VLM entries  so can have a gamble the year after. Looking forward to the cake and coffee on Sunday. HM target? Not sure I will get under 88 mins with these months of long runs in my legs so sub 90mins ,and I will be happy.The weather forecast looks ok but not looking forward to a 9am start.

AA-washing -doesnt everyone have a Thai domestic like DD? No not me either. Good to see you got the confidence to do a Minni torture session today.It takes me a week to get over USA jet lag, still youll be up early for your HM.

Col-very good track session-the MLR will feel easy after that

DD-you seem to do a lot of high intensity you ever fit recovery runs etc in?What is the equivalent for swims and the bike?Have you got domestic help arranged for your return to the uk

Weeble-very wise to sort your hip out first

Some  intervals for me today but legs feel a bit hammered so will see how it goes.




13/03/2013 at 10:06
Spoons, fab running, get in there
Carrot, all weather track?? Rubbish! Well done for kicking the CNBA fairy into touch and getting out there
Oompa, ((()))
Brolish, so annoying when work gets in the way, but at least you fitted the RR in!
2old, it was the headwind wot slowed you down Or maybe your legs were protesting against the cold?
FRC, thanks so much for reposting the link. I will have a look at it later. Not sure i will manage the marathon speeds you're mentioning, but McMillan does agree with you. Hmm, I'm going to mull pace over for a while and see how i feel in a couple of weeks. Great racing by you I love the way your head suddenly clicked into it and you were away. Nice to feel like you didn't push too hard either. Lots of confidence to be gained from that.
DD, top effort on the swim class front. Can't believe you don't know Countdown! It's a Channel 4 institution for the more erudite unemployed - and students.
Col, great track session
AA, brilliant 'minni special'. Im sure you will be flying come the weekend. And what's the worst that can happen? If you don't make your time, there will always be another race Just give it all you've got on the day and be proud of your running.
13/03/2013 at 10:09
MLR for me. As i did 20 on Sun and am possibly doing another 20 the following Sun, and also ran a good tempo last night, i though I'd cut back tonight. Does 13 miles sound OK or should I run less than that?
13/03/2013 at 10:24

SS-Building up some nice runs there.Im not sure doing 1-2 miles less makes a difference really. I think I remember Moz saying he wasnt convinced by MLRs anyway and that what mattered more were a quantity of quality 10 milers. I hope I undertood his point properly. Yes it was cold but I didnt really feel it apart from the tips of my thumbs even wearing gloves.

13/03/2013 at 10:28

Morning all...

Minni - 9th lady! Very impressive indeed...

Brolish - empathise with you on the work front... Things are very busy at the moment so it's constantly getting in the way. Especially when you have suitable fuelled before the run, only to have a meeting put in your diary!

2old - great way of breaking down the marathon like that... Are you hoping for sub 3hrs?

FRC - CBA fairy? GFA? Great 20 miler

Barry - sorry to hear about the injury... Speedy recovery

Col - nice track session and great pace

AA - Great little session from you, surely that instills confidence?!

Was completely snowed in yesterday but managed to get out and do a 5 miler with the 3 middle miles at slightly quicker than MP. Am planning my first ever track session at lunchtime today. 4 x 2K at sub 7:00mm with 200m recoveries. No idea what to expect from the track... Presume people don't use the GPS element of their watches and just work on time?


Dubai Dave    pirate
13/03/2013 at 10:44

AA: Yep it was Seth the Sadistic Swim Coach, he's still mean! The second set of 4 x 150M off 10 second recoveries all out effort were truely horrendous, BUT I did finish them. Be Positive you did the Minni session now go and slay the dragon. 

2OLD: That was my first truely hard effort swimming for two years, I do speed sets on my own  in the pool but never ever push as hard as when Seth is screaming and the ladies behind me are threatening to start tapping my toes. Bike wise I just do miles with hill repeats thrown in, the only speed work I do is on race day. Running I don't have time for real recovery runs as I only run three times a week, my LR is as close as I come if 20 miles can be called a recovery run

SS: The erudite unemployed.... thats me then Your doing some nice running there. 

Blade: No need for GPS on a track, you know how far you've run by the marks. 




Edited: 13/03/2013 at 10:46
13/03/2013 at 10:51

Blade-sub3?-in my dreams! I cant even break sub 40 for 10k .

DD-dont know about erudite , how about loquacious ? Impressive recovery runs.

Dubai Dave    pirate
13/03/2013 at 11:01

2Old: I don't think anyone who has met me would call me loquacious, I tend to be a man of very few spoken words

13/03/2013 at 11:16

Col - Hopefully no more than a week/10 days. SS has very kindly sent me a link to a P&D training schedule for aqua-running, which i didn't think i'd be able to do as my gym pool is shallow (chest height), but apparently this is not an issue, so i've ordered an aqua belt this morning and preparing to feel like a child with a float again!

Barry - Quite right, hopefully i can keep my fitness levels and only have a 2-week taper and that should do it. Here's hoping?

Blade - Well done for getting out in the snow. It was horrendous! 

CBA = Can't be ars*d!

GFA = Good for age

Taking 2old's advice and resting today... RICE, compression garments, chocolate, red wine, horse burgers etc...

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