RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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26/04/2013 at 15:28

Chick- congrats on the podium!

26/04/2013 at 16:28

Chick - Sorry to hear about the quad. It might have happened because the steering wheel's on the wrong side??? Congrats on the MT podium.

FRC - Why is it always our fault when the OH inputs the wrong details in the sat. nav? 

Finally have (a little bit of) good news... I can bend the knee today as the swelling finally seems to be going down. I've been smothering it with Nurofen gel, but it's a strange sensation, as i can't feel anything from the knee down! Glad i was paying attention when applying it, one slip and... No, it doesn't bear thinking about!!! 

On the mileage vs quality subject, i had a good conversation with a physio who runs sub 2.30 marathons on only 40 - 50 miles p.w, and he thinks that there are many schedules that incorporate too many "junk miles"?

I did (some enforced) more gym and core work this time than i ever have before, but really feel that i needed another couple of 20+ lsr's pre-VLM, as yet again it was the endurance side that let me down. However, it's always a balancing act for me as it doesn't take much for me to get injured.

So this Summer i am going to make a concerted effort to strengthen and sort out my quad muscle imbalance (VMO is nowhere near as strong as it should be due to initial knee dislocation 28 years ago), and get some speed back for the shorter races.

Best laid plans and all that... 


26/04/2013 at 16:31

Thanks   actually, you fast lot should be on there, like Minni, AA, carrot, Freemers ...  not me!

Fit-Running-Cat wrote (see)

Chic whilst you're on the podium. Injury update please! What went?


FRC: I think it's the middle bit of my vastus medialis (is that the one that runs to the inside of the knee??). Thing is, I can't feel it when I walk (or run ... tentatively jogged around the corridors at work for a bit). But I can't get up from my chair or out of my car (and especially can't get up from the loo) without wincing with pain. Completely weird thing. Will keep RICEing and hope it's short lived. Stupid injuries .

26/04/2013 at 17:50

Chick -  Congrats on the podium, got to be in it to win it. Hope injury is not too serious, I think we are probably all a bit fragile after last weekend.

Oompa - Good news on your injury, I'm currently mulling over my Berlin prep but need to get calf sorted.

2old - I see new physio next Wednesday.  Interesting about trainers I have used the same Asics, since starting running " seriously" 5 years ago,  in models from 1130 to 1170's.  I had a similar calf issue a couple of years ago and got my gait checked again and they said current shoes were OK. But something must be causing repetitive issues.

Brol - Shame about Berlin, not sure if you saw my post but I suggested running Berlin on a reduced mileage week whilst concentrating on some quicker stuff. I know you like your big mileage but you can still keep your endurance off 40/50 mile weeks.

Cooks - Good luck for Manchester. 


26/04/2013 at 18:36

Oompa - that better news on your knee. i hope the improvement continues

FRC - excellent race. I don't know how you did it so soon after Sunday, but well done

O4S - fantastic news on your hand. I hope your friend enjoys running Belfast on Monday week. It's a tough marathon! I will be out supporting.

Chickadee- hope it's nothing too serious

Spoons - I hope you enjoyed Public Enemy. I saw them in Manchester during my student days. I think it was 1988! 

I have finally caught up with reading all the posts. I have found all the race reports from Sunday very inspiring. After my run on Sunday I was considering giving up on the marathon and sticking to half marathons instead, but reading everyones reports has made me realise that there is no distance quite like the marathon. It's hard (at least for me) to get it right, and I think that is what makes the marathon such a special distance. I have really enjoyed reading all the reports and have now decided to take on another marathon in the autumn. I was originally considering Florence but my current thinking is Dublin quite simply because it wont involve too much travel.     

Interesting reading on people's different approaches to the marathon. My best marathons have always come off the back of lower mileage (45 to 50m per week)but more quality. This year I decided to push the mileage to 55m to 60m per week and unfortunately ended up with a slight injury 3 weeks before the marathon and feeling very jaded on the day. For my autumn marathon I will reduce the mileage back to 50m per week and try to add in more marathon paced miles. I also think 16 weeks is too long for me and will try a 12 week build up instead.

For the next few months I plan to improve my basic speed with a combination of Tuesday track session, Thursday tempo intervals and a weekly parkrun. I haven't run since Sunday but may do a parkrun tomorrow.

Good luck all.

26/04/2013 at 18:56

Chick - Sorry to hear about the injury. Hope it will be short lived as it is non running related and congratulations.

Minni- Kettle bells sound lethal! Might avoid them but definitely need to start doing some core strengthening

Oompa - Good news on the knee front

Someone asked me about Mablethorpe marathon? I've run it twice and really enjoyed it as it is a lovely family friendly event. It has gone to a 2 lap marathon now which I'm not entirely sure about but I'll give it my best shot.

10 miles off road and undulating today and Fleetwood Half entered as I got paid today.


26/04/2013 at 19:36

Thankyou Oompa and AG for the congrats and for seeing how I had got on. Good luck for your next marathon.

Im hopefully aiming for 3:15 for my next marathon in autumn aswell AG....not sure how im going to do it without my fabulous mentor though, Minni has been fantastic

26/04/2013 at 19:46

Sarah - I have no doubt you'll do it! 

26/04/2013 at 20:54

Chick hopefully the quad will just be a little pull and nothing too serious!  Podium sounds good

Hope the Achilles holds out on tomorrow's run Red.

BroI would have thought your mileage was higher than that.  Barry might have a point about Berlin, I ran it last year off 40 mpw.  You've bags of endurance that you won't lose by dropping a bit of mileage and swapping it for some faster stuff.

Are you running York marathon Sarah? You should be aiming for 3:15, you're a talented runner

Col it's good to hear that all of the race reports have helped to inspire you to enter Dublin   The marathon is indeed a special distance - so much hard work goes into it, for one day, where so many factors can conspire to work against us and everything has to fall into place for it to go right.  I've had some good marathons and I've had some absolutely shocking ones!  But I keep going back for more!

I cross trained for London more than I've cross trained for previous marathons.  Six runs per week plus one swim (only 1K) and one spinning class.  Swim would most often be on a Tuesday morning before work, occasionally Thursday if I had to be in work earlier.  The track session is on a Tuesday night and it could be psychological but I would always seem to run the session better after a morning swim.

26/04/2013 at 21:04

Chickadeee made the podium!

18 mile LSR d&d today at 9:28 pace. Picked a hilly course. It was a lovely, albeit a bit warm day with blue sky. I think I may have caught the sun! I managed to pick up the pace a little bit in the last few miles but have got to admit my legs were pretty knackered by the end! Anyway, all in all everything is going in the right direction. 

26/04/2013 at 21:14

Here is my weekly mileage + long run:

57.65   18

53.25   18

52.5     20

48.2    17

60.85   20.35

58       20

58       20

41.5    21

72.4    22

47.75  13

34     14

49     20

65.3   22.3

42     11

54.5   20

34.5   12


Edited: 26/04/2013 at 21:16
26/04/2013 at 21:23

At some point I'll compare my last three marathon build ups.  Its hard to pin point what made me improve this time.  Last year I would have said it was all the long runs.  This year I think it was the mixture of lots of long runs and the speed sessions I did.

I will admit now (although I think I'd admitted it all along) that I found the speed session hard and I also found the MP miles a bit tedious compared to normal.  There were times when I worried that perhaps I'd plateaued and possibly already reached my potential.  But once again it all came right at just the right time. 


26/04/2013 at 21:25

Oh god I've just realised this will mean my paces will be adjusted.

26/04/2013 at 21:31

I've been trying to catch up before posting, but this forum has been moving so quickly that it's taken several days , finally there!

First, all the marathon results .

There are so many of you I've been following for a few years, including Minni, Freemers, Chick, Carrot and AA and it was so great to see you all getting PBs and running some fantastic times . FRC, I've known for less long but your journey goes back much longer and well done for such a great time.

There are also some incredible stories to motivate in coming back from injury. Freemers, your injury was quite some time ago but you've done so well at beating it and putting it behind you. Oompa you did so well to get a good time in the circumstances (now rest that knee!), Barry your dedication in doing those 4 hour cross training sessions was incredible, many lesser mortals would have quite at that stage. Hope you can get to the bottom of injuries and fully put them behind you.

O4S, making the start line so soon after your operation was amazing. That's great news about the hand . Hope the 100 miles goes well and that your survive your students' questions.

Then Minni, KFC and Bro were all brave about your pacing and while it didn't work for all of you you've all shown that done sensibly it's a risk worth taking.

Finally, all the thread spirit really shone through in the way you all ran together, and a big thank you to Minni who keeps us all together as a community.

I've had two recent positives. First the physio gave me the go ahead to build up to my runs to 45 mins provided I build them up gradually. Secondly, I got a place in the Olympic Park run . It's the perfect target to have to get me training again (I lost motivation a bit when the stretching was taking longer than the running) even though my main aim is to be able to run that distance without any injury problems. I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one from the thread runnning so hopefully I'll get to meet some of you to confirm that you're not mass murderers!

26/04/2013 at 21:35

Becs - some are mass murderers. You just have to work out who! Great news on the park run

Minni - did you have a shorter taper this time?

26/04/2013 at 21:38

Re: cross training - I am intending to keep it going as much as possible. Some swim, bike, weights, gym, core, yoga etc. I suspect this is the key to avoiding injury plus making you a stronger runner. Even when I'm not injured I seem to be constantly plagued with aches, pains and niggles. 

26/04/2013 at 21:43

Not really Spoons but it does look like that.

Weeks 10 & 11 were when I was ill so dropped slightly.  Week 14 I did a 10k race so no long run but I did my long run at the beginning of week 15, which is why it seems to jump up.  Really I just did my 20 a day late.


26/04/2013 at 21:44

Becs - great news from the physio!  I'm in the Olympic run too (I think - didn't get an email but have a reference no and from their FB page there are lots in the same position).

26/04/2013 at 22:20

Minni - Thanks for sharing. How much speedwork did you do each week and what type of sessions?

Just had a read back through the years and even though I knew you were all brilliant, I didn't realise how brilliant. Hoping I can be a worthy member of TM.

PS Really enjoyed the outing of a certain forum member who dissed the thread. Miaow!

26/04/2013 at 22:29

Sarah, you've definitely got a lot more improvement to come. Well done. 3:23 was it? Superb.  

CG it was me that asked about Mabelthorpe. Interesting. Lap courses I like. As for kettle bells, they're excellent for strength overall, flexibility & core. A kb swing done properly works hips, hamstrings, arms - perfect for runners.

Col. Dont give up on marathons. Try different approach. As for how I ran well 3 days after. Not entirely sure. Recovered well, massage, those heavy weight sessions? No races for 3 weeks now.

2old/ Redders and others - here is the article I mentioned. Makes a lot of sense to me, we are all different body types, weights, muscle mix. Sweet spot for mileage and number of days therefore different for everyone? Yet most plans have rigid mileage.

Good luck to Cooks. Someone else was doing a 10k also?

Edited: 26/04/2013 at 22:30
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