RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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18/05/2013 at 21:08

Minni - re paces, McMillan suggests 7:45 - 8:45 for easy pace based on my race times, which is a massive range. I did 8 this morning and it felt fine. I think I am going to kinda play it by ear, and if I do the faster easy pace sessions then also make sure to include at least one recovery pace run (MM: 8:51-9:32)

18/05/2013 at 22:43

Ant - for sub 3.15 I think about 8mm LR pace is needed but that was me

AA - that's one way to get a frozen shoulder. Sounds warm to me

Thinking about a 10 k later in June. At least I can think. 



19/05/2013 at 06:52


got pissed again last night but no hangover this morning

19/05/2013 at 10:46


lol Spoons maybe you're still drunk

AA - that water is just too cold, I don't know how you did it!

Hope you and Miss Minni had a nice morning at the race for life Minni.

Ant - that is a wide pace range - I guess listen to your body and see how 8mm easy pace feels, you don't want to become injured from too much fast stuff but maybe as 2Old says you'll adjust to it...

2 weeks until the 10km I have entered Mr Kiwi and I into, after a week of enforced no running am not feeling so great about the whole thing. May run with Mr Kiwi which would be a sedated easy pace.. back to the physio again this afternoon, am not so keen on these weekly visits - call me paranoid but I'm not in any pain and if she spends most of the session going through exercises, do I really need to see her every week? I think not..... sorry for the rant, feeling rather grumpy about the whole situation now!

Anyone running long today, enjoy


19/05/2013 at 11:11

Kiwi - I agree with you questioning whether or not see her every week.  Are you in pain when you run? If you've not got pain then I'd be tempted to listen to your body. 

My calf is bad again. Can't really explain it - it doesn't seem to be getting any better even though its getting complete rest.   


19/05/2013 at 11:17

 Could get anymore text in. 

Anyway, I'm starting to get a bit tetchy. I know there's nothing I can do but I was looking forward to getting onto some speedwork over the summer starting at a good level and I know each week will be putting me further back.   I know I'm not alone feeling like this. 

19/05/2013 at 11:24

Minni - sorry to hear your calf is still bad, totally understand your tetchy feeling!

I have no pain when running, I have been strapping the knee to stop the floaty feeling. The 'only' problem has been the swelling post running.. but again it isn't painful.  Think I will see what she says today, then try and put her off for 2 weeks, along the lines of 2 weeks will give time for the exercises to start making a difference. plus 2 weeks time would be the day after the 10km, so if the knee is swollen she could deal with it


19/05/2013 at 12:15

Poor Minni   I can totally understand how you must be feeling. At least I can run but I have to run slow and no further than 3-5 miles. Then the quad pain comes back. Like you I was looking forward (well not really but you know what I mean) to a bunch of 10ks to pick up some speed over the summer. Now all I can do is plod with Mr. Chick at 11mm pace

Col: that was shifting! Such a shame the course was short. Still, well done!

Spoons. wrote (see)


got pissed again last night but no hangover this morning

Got pissed too at a friend's ESC pardeee but I AM hungover today

19/05/2013 at 14:08

Oh no, looks like niggles have NOT gone away   I'm really sorry to hear your calf is still not right, Minni.  Are you in pain in any other area of your body?  The reason I ask is I am convinced my calf pain back before VLM was a direct result of the issues in my quad/hip.  I had a pain which I could not identify the exact location of, it sort of moved from my quad to my hammy to my hip.  The pain was always the kind I could run through, though, so I did.  However, when my calf went after a couple of weeks of this quad/hip niggling, it was definitely not the sort of pain I could run through, it felt like something was about to snap even with a mile of run/walk.  So maybe if you've got a niggle elsewhere in that leg, that might need to get sorted out before your calf can heal itself?

Spoons, top quality boozing

Kiwi, the way I look at it is it's your money and the physio should be made to work for you rather than telling you to keep coming back weekly if you don't see the benefit.  As Minni says, you've got to listen to your body and do what you think is right.  I like the strategy of doing the race and then getting the physio to see what the result is.  At the end of the day, it's all trial and error so go for it!

Chick, happy hangover

Really tired today.  I don't seem to have got myself into a proper routine just yet so don't feel like I'm making any concrete progress.  Not helped by a few social events last week hijacking my pool efforts.  But they were fun so c'est la vie!  I still managed 5 spin classes though so it's not been a total write-off, but I think I might repeat Week 2 of my pool running schedule as I only managed one session   So spin after work today and then a pool run after that.  Then an early morning spin tomorrow and a pool run after that.  I am determined to focus this week and just get on with it.  Best thing of the week, though, is OH went to 3 spin classes and really enjoyed them

19/05/2013 at 14:13

Ant I've been thinking the same thing with the long run paces.  My last couple of longer runs have been closer to 8mm without really feeling that 'fast'.  If I want to run sub-3:15 at Amsterdam, that's at least 7:25 pace.  Need to get out of the mindset that 8mm is 'too fast'. 

That must have been so annoying Col, that's a great time though.  What sort of time are you targeting next weekend?

Kiwi I'd not bother with the physio if she's just going through exercises.  How many more can she need to show you? 

Minni I really sympathise, Parsnip is currently sidelined with a dodgy hamstring (again) - he's just wanting to get back into some speedwork over the summer too.

Sounds like some great drinking sessions from Chick and Spoons, with varying success at dodging hangovers!  I mentioned it ages ago (and it's too late for a hangover today) but do try those rehydration drinks after you've been out for a few shandies.  Leave them out ready next to a pint of water for when you come home!  I must stock up for my hen do next weekend

15 miles from me this morning, off to the pub to watch the last game of the season.  It's terrible when you don't have Sky at home and you have to go out to watch the football  

19/05/2013 at 17:51

Minni - how frustrating. 

Kiwi - sounds like you know what to do. once you've been given the exercises surely treatment is more important?! 

Carrot - 15 miles? Seriously?! You're doing fab! When is amsterdam? 

Spoons - lucky you! I've drank way too much te last 4 nights! 

I ran 9 miles this morning. Very slow @8:48. Legs heavy. Longest run for 4 weeks though. 

This bloody update is a nightmare on the phone. Everything keeps changing 

19/05/2013 at 17:53

Good news on the shoulder though. Swimming didn't hurt it andt the soreness is almost gone. Maybe the ice lake helped. 

19/05/2013 at 18:01

Carrot back up to 15 miles, that is awesome.

AA good your shoulder benefited from the freezing lake You'll soon get back into the miles.

Fizz was good today, spent whole session working on the knee/i.t band + has strapped the patella. If the knee doesn't swell after Tuesday's spin she said I can recommence gentle jogging.... got bruises already from tody's session, she proper dug out the i.t band!!

19/05/2013 at 18:03

S.S was meant to say I am well impressed with your 5 spin sessions!! no wonder you are tired

19/05/2013 at 19:55

Moved on from ultras and marathons to 10ks and hill training on the bikes.  Two fantastic days this weekend, which has left us both knackered

Yesterday was 70 miles with 5,000 ft of ascent in the Welsh mountains, while today was 60 miles in the Cotswolds, again about 5,000 ft.  The big difference is that the Black Mountains have longer, but more manageable hills, while the Cotswolds have eyeball popping horrors, as you rocket up and down the sides of steep narrow valleys. A few more weekends like this and I won't be able to get my thighs to fit into my trousers [unless they are lycra!]

Minni: bad news on the calf, hope it settles soon.

Kiwi / Chick:  look at your current position as an opportunity for a spot of 'Care in the Community' you can make the O/Hs feel a bit better about themselves [then kick their ass later]

Carrot / AA:  I refuse to think of distances like that until after the summer

19/05/2013 at 22:39

Minni- calf becoming a problem. Maybe it's imbalance. Have you tried swimming to stretch and lengthen the muscles without impact and spinning to work on the upper legs again without impact? Rest too. Dont want you on the bench too

AA - glad the ache is going. the ice cold water seemed to help my Achilles too. Nice longer run too

Carrot-after a great  run like that you earnt an afternoon in the pub

O4S- if it was a beautiful in Wales as it was in the lakes todheavy our pain will have been worthwhile. 

SS- 5 spin sessions? Psycho!

Kiwi- hope it works. I always found squast helped knee pain too 

Chick- hope the quads fix



19/05/2013 at 22:45

Saw some of the Windermere marathon. Very impressed with the 10 in 10 days runners. They looked like sh!t but so would we. The winner got to mile 19 in just under two hours and looked very relaxed's a tough Course. might think about it as a fun run next year if I get a decent marathon in in April. ...or any marathon in then. Im going to see how my Achilles stands up to a run again tomorrow. I managed 5 miles of hiking today and apart from stiffness - scar tissue- it seemed ok. Need to swim too as I  have a 1.5 k swim time trial on Wednesday. 

19/05/2013 at 23:19

Col, that's a pain with the short 10k, still a great time.  

Minni, irritating calf. As 2old suggests, any tightness in hamstring, glutes or quads, Foam roll yourself? AA?  

Spoons, pissed and 19 miles walk, sounds good.  

O4S nice biking.  

2old, there is a video of the 10 in 10, some looked pretty good to me. If you're still in Bowness, I can recommend a cafe  

Re: easy pace, 8mm does sound fast, surely it's meant to be aerobic building, can't really force easy? I go around 8:00-8:30mm. Long runs at 8:15-30 for 3:15.

After Thursday up down hill, managed to get to Sat club speed session for first time in months, with ultras, marathon and also flooding. Late getting there so had to run in my trail jacket with my phone and some uphill in our route. 10 x 0.25m, but all done in 1:20-1:28.

Today wanted to get a long run in for possible June / July ultra or races, so 4.5m before club trail run to do 15.5m total, longest run since VLM. Legs tired with 3 days running but felt good.

Edited: 19/05/2013 at 23:20
20/05/2013 at 08:16

Carrot - Nice mileage, are you following the thread trend of shorter quicker stuff during the summer or aiming for something longer?

Minni - Rubbish news about your calf, can't really give any advice as I've been stuck with my calf/shin issues since Feb, apart from the calf anything feel different in your running action?

FRC - good running.


20/05/2013 at 08:55

Didn't get a chance to check in much last week as had a pretty hectic one but good to see some comeback trails on. 

2old - glad your achilles is showing some promise. Don't rush it, but sounds positive

AA - glad the shoulder isn't giving you gip anymore, the cold water has probably numbed it...

Minni - sorry to hear the calf won't clear up, imagine it's very frustrating. If it was hanging off at least you'd know it was bad, but sounds like it's very up and down in being good one minute, and bad the next

Carrot & FRC - well done for getting mileague up past 15 already, that's very impressive

O4S - sounds like you had a couple of nice days riding. Whereabouts in the Cotswolds were you, as agree there are some horrific steep climbs around?

Ant - your 10K pb is the same as mine to the very second! As for easy pace, I agree as it's something I thought a lot about a few months back. I think it does still need to be easy, but then if you're not training for a marathon and the mileage is cut back, then 8mm would be termed easy for a 1.30 HM so now's the time to try it I guess.

I had a shocking week last week. Few things going on personally, not great news at work and home, but onwards and upwards. Managed a 7M slow run into work on Friday which was good. If I can do 10M this week, and 13M the week after I'll be on for my HM, albeit won't race it at such. 

I ache from head to foot today after donning my cricket whites for the first time on Saturday. Spent the afternoon chasing some serious leather but the good news is no reaction through the achilles. Although it looks like a gentle game, you do put all of the weight through it when you sprint after the ball and bend down to throw it in, and when you go back on your toes to defend the ball when batting. Managed a quick cameo of 20 in a doomed run chase but was nice to get back on the bike, so to speak, and enjoyed it which is the main thing.

How's your calf getting on Barry

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