RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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22/01/2011 at 19:48

 AA  You've had a tough week and maybe your head was just too full of other stuff to focus on the run.  You might feel as if you've had a rotten run but you've got a 2hr40 in the bank and a rest tomorrow.  Hope things get better next week .

CG Hope you feel better in the morning.  I'm feeling a bit under the weather myself tonight but I think it has more to do with the bottle of wine I drank last night .  I'll look out for you tomorrow.  If I don't see you till the end: have a good one. 

kiwirunner10 wrote (see)

 What pace do you usually do your general aerobic run at?  I managed 7 1/2 miles last night, only averaged 8.45, felt really tired.  

  My general aerobic pace is about 9 m/m Kiwi but they have generally been a bit quicker on a flatter course and a bit slower on a hilly route.  I think 8.45 is spot on.  Its weird but sometimes the slower I run the more tired I feel.  Good luck you and others, wobbled, with your longs runs.

DD What a Hero.... 

Dubai Dave wrote (see)

To be honest the inspiration for the last 30 mins yesterday came from this thread, how could I possibly be a mentor on a sub 3-30 thread if I couldn't still churn out a marathon in less than 3-30?

......and you got your sub 3 age graded marathon?    The swimming and cycling must help your general fitness, which has an impact on your marathon times.  I know if the summer when I'm cycling I feel the difference when I'm running up hills (they seems easier). 

......and not an axe in sight.... 
22/01/2011 at 22:31
CG, hopefully just nerves and you'll be fine in the morning.

AA, never mind. It's done now. I sometimes think the tough ones give you more strength than the easy ones.
22/01/2011 at 23:09

DD, congratulations. Great result.

 Mimmi and CG, good luck for tomorrow.

AA, seconded to Mr Spoons comment. Going through tough moments in training definitely helps me going through tough moments in racing.

Edited: 22/01/2011 at 23:20
Dubai Dave    pirate
23/01/2011 at 05:19


Minni / CG:  good luck for today, its normal not to feel 100% the day before a key race, I was convinced I had a cold coming on the morning of the marathon... Its just your brain playing tricks.

AA: You got out there and did it, we all have tough days. But remember you never regret the runs you did its the ones you didn't do that you regret.

Go well all of you.

23/01/2011 at 11:15

AA sorry about the long run, although I agree with others that it sounds like a blip brought on by a hard week. Mine went well yesterday, following a horrible run last week and funnily enough I'd been saying on the general thread that I seem to have a regular 16-miler nightmare that hits early in the campaign, so I think you could be on to something.

Hope you made it out OK today CG, looking forwad to your and Minni's race report. 

23/01/2011 at 13:40
Will do a report when I get home but a bad day at the office. 1.39 but had a shocking run due to cramp. Tired muscles? Not a happy bunny
23/01/2011 at 13:57
Managed a slow 17 miles here this morning, averaged 9.14. Legs were tired + achy, longest run yet though, just thinking endurance/time on feet... planning more sleep next week, this week was manic with report writing + assessment marking, thinking 6-6 1/2 hours sleep isn't enough with this training!

Looking forward to your race reports Minni + c.g
23/01/2011 at 14:01
Just saw your post Mini, what a pain that you got cramp, nightmare! A good time considering? Chin up, it's still early days, you'll bounce back
23/01/2011 at 14:10
Cramp is just a hydration issue which is easily rectified. With that you still ran quicker and you're going in the right direction. Well done.
Dubai Dave - great run there well done
23/01/2011 at 14:45

I thought the "cramping caused by hydration" hypothesis has been largely discredited, unless you listen to Gatorade.  

Minni - I'd look towards your training for the answers.

23/01/2011 at 14:51

Minni, that's a PB isn't it, so fantastic given the circumstances and at a relatively early stage in your marathon campaign. Have you any more races planned before the marathon?

 I read cramps were due to mineral deficiencies, but don't know how reliable the source was.

23/01/2011 at 16:09

Minni - I hate to be the bearer of bad news but official time is 1:41. You were a few seconds behind me on gun time and a few ahead on chip time.

Minni passed me at around the 11 mile mark. She was struggling with cramp and I had stitch that was annoying more than painful but I couldn't get my legs moving any faster. I passed her again as she stopped to stretch. Really felt for her but I was suffering my own personal pain and couldn't even summon up any words of encouragement.

I was expecting a few minutes quicker really but I woke with a sore throat and slight cough this morning and it is still early days. I am taking it as an encouraging sign that my HR was a lot lower than I would normally expect for a HM (more like MP) so I wasn't running flat out but I'm not sure why my legs wouldn't let me maintain the pace. The usual pattern is that my HR rises so that it is more effort to maintain pace.

23/01/2011 at 17:35

Oh god, that's even worse.  I'd gone off my garmin time which is on auto pause when I'm stopped.  Forgot about that.

Just downloading my data then I'll report......

Edited: 23/01/2011 at 17:35
23/01/2011 at 18:20

We are all in the early stages of our training and need to realise that we are not in peak condition yet. I think our bodies are getting used to the increase in mileage. My legs are still really aching today and it was hurting even taking the dogs for a walk!

Tomorrow is a new week of training and we pick ourselves up and get back out there. It's weekends like this that make us stronger, I swear from experience.

23/01/2011 at 18:54


On finishing the race the cramps moved from my legs to my stomach and I've not had a pleasant journey home to say the least!

I'll give you my splits first then analyse  .....

1.  7.15

2.  7.17

3.  7.14

4.  7.20

5.  7.15

6.  7.23

7.  7.46 (this was when the first cramp hit in the back of my left leg, took gel, stretched, water)

8.  7.29

9.  7.37 (bit of cramp down the front (quad)of my left leg, gel)

10.  7.50 (cramp back to the back (hamstring area) of my left leg and continued on and off from this

              point onwards)

11. 8.30

12. 7.49

13. 0.50

I felt really good in the first 5 miles;  I felt as if I could go faster and had to slow myself down on several occasions.  Then on mile 7 I started to feel the tightness of cramp. I tried to run through it but it wasn't easing.  I took a gel and some water, stretched on a fence and it eased.  I'd been running with a group who'd quickly got a good bit ahead but during mile 8  I caught then back up.  Then during mile 9 I started to feel cramp in my other leg (I'd possibly changed my stride slightly to compensate for left leg...).  Again, stopped and stretched.  It was back in the left leg by mile 10 and, again, I took on a gel, stretched etc.  From here on in I was bothered with it.  I took on a form of tourettes punching my leg and swearing at it every time it misbehaved and this cleared it for a time.  When the cramp wasn't there I was feeling great and able to pull away but when it hit I couldn't run through it. 

I was really mad with myself and could have easily started to cry but didn't want to lose anymore salt through tears......

In 2009 I ran London (3.32) then Edinburgh (3.42), 5 weeks apart,  I was troubled with cramp during shorter races for the rest of the year but I wasn't  bothered with it last year.

Looking at my training over the past week:  I ran the 12 miles fell race 7 days ago which involved a lot of climb and my hamstring has had twinges since.   On Friday I ran 10 miles at 8.18 m/m, which I knew was too fast just 2 days before a half marathon.  

I think my hydration was ok.  I drank the usual PSP22 before the race and made sure I was well hydrated yesterday.  

 Now for the positives..... I think I ran a 10k pb and certainly ran a 10 mile pb today, but not a half (1.36 back in 2006).   My OH ran is first half on the bare minimum of training and finished in 2.17.  Very proud of him .

ho hum...... 

23/01/2011 at 19:09

Minni, sounds like it was an incredibly frustrating experience . Well done to your OH .

 I managed 6 miles today, bringing me to 13 miles for the week. It's v low mileage but I finished the 6 feeling like I could keep going and so given that 2.5 miles felt tough last week I'm pleased with that progress and it gives me something I can build on. A friend's 5 year old was visiting earlier in the day, and as a result I had Nellie the Elephant stuck in my head the entire run . Lots of tidying up to do now.

I was around lots of people with bad colds this week, which was the last thing I needed, but a combination of echnicea, first defence and vit C seem to have done the job.

23/01/2011 at 19:14
Small steps BecsA.... You'll soon be back up to speed.  What date is the Reading half?
23/01/2011 at 19:18
Minni - I feel your pain. Do you have any other races lined up before London? How about making that 10k PB official at Dewsbury in a couple of weeks?
23/01/2011 at 19:21
March 20th, so I won't get in as much training as I'd have liked but I should be able to make quite a bit of progress by then provided I can train consistently for the remaining weeks.
23/01/2011 at 19:21
We were both in a similar place today CG.  Not a nice place to be...   Sorry I didn't see you at the end.  I grabbed some warm clothes and heading down the course a bit to cheer OH in.  I'll look at the Dewsbury 10k, but I'm just not sure that I can do both endurance and speed at the same time.  Another thought has occurred to me... maybe I'm just getting too old.... 
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