Minni v Dubai Dave
So Minni in essence were all telling you more speedwork. BB has found sucess using pretty well the same method I used to transform my self from a 3-45 plodder to more speedy 3-24 marathon runner. You are clearly capable of running at 7-15 min/miles so do some of your training at those paces, endurance only gets you so far. Does your club have a speedwork session? If they don't you want to push for one, you don't have to have a track.
All is explained for me as I feel rubbish. Shivering, aching muscles and no energy at all.
What is annoying is how often this seems to happen whenever I have an easy week or when I taper.
Minni – Sorry, my last reply xposted with your last.
I’m glad you agree that you need a bit more speed work in your schedule.
I have been looking over my schedule for last year especially my successful 3:30 campaign and another run that I did once a fortnight that I found beneficial was the Yasso 800. I tried running 800m in less than 3 minutes 30 secs ten times with 400 m jog in between. Yasso claims that whatever time in minutes and seconds you can run 10 x 800m equates to your marathon time in hours and minutes. I don’t totally agree with this but do believe it’s a great workout for any distance from 10k to marathon training.
So for a sub 3:30 attempt you should be trying run each interval in 7:00 minute mile pace or even slightly quicker. I say slightly quicker because I found that I was able to do 10 x ½ mile intervals all in under 3:20 minutes and then ran a 3:28 marathon. Although, in saying that I do have better speed than endurance.
DD – Thanks, and I agree with you totally. I forgot about Yasso’s recovery times as I have always taken around 2 minutes between intervals. Similar to you, I’m now in training for a sub 3:10 attempt and can do the intervals in sub 3 minutes but couldn’t get close to a sub 3 marathon.
I do think 800m in 3:30 x 10 with 2 minutes jog is a good workout for Minni considering her current speed and fitness level. She should be able to run then faster as the weeks go on.
IMO you can't just stick in an interval workout like 10 * 800m without it being part of some sort of progression where it fits in sensibly with what has been before and with what is coming up.
A couple of other things with regards to a VO2 max session (if that, indeed is the goal):
1) For a runner of your ability doing these intervals at 5k pace is much too slow for vo2 max training.
2) 5m is way too stressful a total volume for VO2 max training if done at your correct vo2 max pace.
It's going to take a bit of thought to incorporate vo2 max training into your schedule. It's also not something that you should plan to do solely in an attempt to address cramp issues - you'd better have a better reason!
There are VO2 max sessions & LT runs in the P & D schedule I just need to find where I have put my copy again. I agree with Moraghan to a certain point in that you can't just parachute a 10 x 800 into a schedule it has to be built up to and indeed perhaps passed. But at the same time we don't want to make this too complicated, the whole thing you need to be getting used to is running at and indeed faster than your race paces.
I doubt if many runners actually understand the terms VO2 and LT fully, I wouldn't begin to think that I do its simply not in my areas of expertise (however if you want to know about ships I'm pretty good) though I get the idea. Speed work does many things but in my opinion the benefits which are oftern overlooked are that it gives the runner confidence that they are able to run at paces far faster than their general aerobic pace, and that it teaches the runner to know what different paces feel like and hit them without reference. Running at race pace for extended periods can be further developed by tempo runs or as I prefer by running lots of shorter races though not necessarily flat out. Marathon training is not rocket science, LSR, Tempo, Intervals Medium LR, two recoveries, rest day pretty well covers any schedule, the variances are how you do those tempo / speed sessions.
IMO too many people get hung up on the technocalities of the sport, if you want to run fast you have to train fast some of the time. How you do that could be the subject of many a book but as long as there is progression in so far as you do more reps or do them faster or reduce the recovery period you are progressing rather than stagnating.
In short there are many ways to crack a nut.
Feeling unwell...... I thought on Sunday afternoon I had a bad case of 'runners tum', took yesterday off work and felt better today. Went out for my run tonight, got 2 miles in and had to come home feeling really sick. My daughter has it too .
Right down to business....
Moraghan wrote (see)
IMO you can't just stick in an interval workout like 10 * 800m without it being part of some sort of progression where it fits in sensibly with what has been before and with what is coming up.A couple of other things with regards to a VO2 max session (if that, indeed is the goal):1) For a runner of your ability doing these intervals at 5k pace is much too slow for vo2 max training.2) 5m is way too stressful a total volume for VO2 max training if done at your correct vo2 max pace.It's going to take a bit of thought to incorporate vo2 max training into your schedule. It's also not something that you should plan to do solely in an attempt to address cramp issues - you'd better have a better reason!
DD / Moraghan There are VO2 max sessions in my schedule, starting the middle of February and lasting for seven weeks (one session per week). They start at 5 x 800m and change through 600m, 1000m and 1200m as the weeks progress.
I have never raced a 5k so I wouldn't really know what it is. My first three miles on Sunday were around 7.15 so maybe I could knock 15 seconds off that, or is that too slow? (just read back and that's actually around the pace Badbark suggested...) I do sometimes find when I glance at my garmin that I'm running at about 6.45 pace but that's probably on a slight downhill.
Our club doesn't do 'speed' sessions as such but we do do lots of hill reps! I have an 800m (or just a smidgen under) piece of flattish road earmarked for that session, which can be extended onto another road to get right up to 1200m.
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