RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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Dubai Dave    pirate
29/01/2011 at 07:21


Minni, well done with your LT run and good luck with the club party. I was club chairman for two years up to 31.12.10, its tough getting everything organised and keeping everyone happy.

You are probably right that most men (me included) don't realise how vunerable women feel running on their own.

My calf will be OK I ended up trotting 3K yesterday around the local bike track yesterday behind my litlle one who I thought would have trouble riding his bike without stablisers but who went off like a rocket with dad in pursuit! No reaction by calf at all and then a extended set of sprints while playing tag passed without incident. Just back from 4.5 hours on the bike, fantastic!

30/01/2011 at 17:19

Hi all,

Hope everyone has had successful long runs this weekend.  I struggled through 18 miles yesterday am, had planned to do a progressive run but only got to 8:45 m/m in the last 8 miles, no where near 8 m/m, came home feeling like a bit of a failure!  But trying not to get too stressed out at this stage about hitting marathon pace at the end of long runs - I've never incorporated marathon pace at the end of long runs before but am constantly being told via different sources that this is one of the keys to improving marathon times. 

Was nearly going to flag this morning's cross country league race, but went along and came away feeling more positive, not really ran much cross country before, ended up 20th lady in the first league race back at the start of December, 13th lady today on a very hilly course.  So even though I am struggling with pace in training sessions, I definately am noticing the difference in races.....

Mini - Liz Yelling and her husband pitched their speech at all abilities, so it wasn't too 'technical'.  She did say if you are an experienced runner you would benefit from including one LT and one interval speed session each week, she too emphasised how important it was to get to know how your marathon pace feels, in steady mid week runs and to include race pace in the second half of your long runs every second week.  We were given a little training diary, pitched at intermediate runners, which includes a mixture of LT and Interval training in a week or a medium long run mid week at your marathon pace.  Like D.D she said you need to know how your marathon pace feels without looking at a watch.... She also recommended to have a couple of tune up races to gauge how your training is going, to that affect I have entered a 10 mile race end of Feb, and a half March 20th.

That's the main bits, sorry I'm not very good at retaining and passing on information.  She was amazing though - her marathon p.b is 2:28!!  They had a slide show, at one point a photo of her 'sprinting' at mile 23 came up, I was thinking, oh to look that good at mile 23!!

30/01/2011 at 19:35

That sounds like a great night Kiwi.  Liz Yelling coached Matchstick Man last year in the SuperSix and she was brilliant on the forum.  She offered loads of advice to everyone.

I wouldn't worry too much about your 18 miler -  18 miles is 18 miles, and you had a great xcountry today so you still had plenty left. 

I had an odd week last week.  I played down just how yuk I was feeling and I was worried that I'd peaked and it was going to be all downhill.  My hamstring is hurting a bit on the faster runs but not enough to cause a problem as such.  I've made an appointment with the physio tomorrow night to have ti checked out.  Strangely, it didn't bother me much today when I was running a slower pace.

I got the club handicap out the way yesterday (I was organising so didn't do it) and the club party last night.  I kept to 3 glasses of wine otherwise I might have had to skip my run today.  I decided to go off road but didn't chose as hilly as route as the last one, but it would still be classed as hilly by most standards.  I didn't worry about the pace and it was really nice just to be able to relax and enjoy the run.  And I felt much better!  18 miles done with an average pace of 9.50.  The last three miles were 8.12; 8.00; 7.15.

30/01/2011 at 21:00

Minni - cracking last three miles! Well done. 

KR  - I had one of those 18 mile runs last week, I think its really common. ANd like you say you're improving in races. We've still got a long way to go in our training.

Recovery week for me now  Couple of speed sessions, a not-so-long long run and some extra rest days

Dubai Dave    pirate
31/01/2011 at 04:32

Kiwi: 18 miles is exactly that 18 miles in the bank, so you couldn't hit 8 min/miles at the end, well that takes practice and your way ahead of most marathon runners now because you realise that it is important to be able to run at MP when tired.

Liz Yelling is a bit of a hero of mine, her achievements have always been over shadowed by Paula but she has competed in two Olympics and been the first British finisher in both, plus a commonwealth bronze. Yet I doubt if many of the British public are even aware she exists.

Minni: Top running particularly on the back of a week when you didn't feel so good.

AA: Very true there is a very long way to go, something I have to keep telling myself with regard to my IM training.

Have fun out there.

31/01/2011 at 11:28

Tried 6 miles MP today. Managed 7;55, 7:58, 7:59, 7:46, 7:42 and 7:43. Absolutley bloody freezing - was breathing fire the whole way  Finished with the "absolutely no way could I do this for 26.2 miles in 10 weeks time" feeling. But hey ho! 10 weeks is a long time!

31/01/2011 at 12:16
Well done AA - like you say, 10 weeks is a long time
31/01/2011 at 22:37

Great run AA - 10 weeks is a long time...... yikes, is it only 10 weeks...?

 I had a session with the physio tonight.  I must admit I love it!  Nothing to worry about with the hamstrings, just a bit tight.  Had a good doing over with ultrasound, bowen, acupuncture, stretching etc.   Feeling better already!  

Here's something new for the equation - my dog has done the deed tonight with her handsome stud.  Perfectly timed for puppies in 9 weeks time (taper time) and they'll be easily looked after while were away for the marathon. Hopefully

Dubai Dave    pirate
01/02/2011 at 04:18


AA: Hey your doing it, nice run, It always amazes me what people are capable of once you pin a number on their vest.

Minni: I really must get down to the physio tomorrow and try to get my calf muscles sorted out, what breed of dog?

01/02/2011 at 07:36

Oh Minni - how exciting! My dog had 9 puppies 3 weeks before the marathon 3 years ago. Hard work but great fun

Getting myself mentally prepared for my 6 x 1200s this morning. Last hard one of the week as I'm away for 3 days and think my body is telling me I need a rest. Knee starting to tweak  Then will do 14 miles on Saturday.

DD - you recovered from Dubai yet?

01/02/2011 at 08:38

DD I'm a great believer in physio sessions and sports massage.... mainly because I get to lie down for an hour!   I've always had trouble with my calf muscles but changed my shoes recently and, so far, have had no twinges whatsoever.  Fingers crossed.  Are you running or still sticking to the bike?  

The dog is a labrador and has a red fox line in her.  We've been all around the country trying to find a suitable male for her and hopefully last night sealed the deal!  He is a handsome black lab

We organise a 20 mile fell run July and the online entries are now open Chevy Chase Online Entries  if anyone fancies a trip to Northumberland...... 

Dubai Dave    pirate
01/02/2011 at 10:32

Minni: It is changing shoes that caused my present woes! I knew full well that running in low heeled shoes cuased my calves to tighten up, but had got away with it up to 1/2M and decided to try it in a full marathon with the resulting problems! Have been running a little, 10 miles on Sunday and went to club run last night, all was well until I stepped up about 3 gears and started running at about 6.5 min/miles when it all started to stiffen up so dropped to a trot and went home after 5 miles. Feel fine today but have given it a rest and cycled pre dawn, swam at lunchtime.  Seeing physio on Sunday, this is a new one as he was highly recommended and my previous physio left Dubai.

good luck with the dog and the race, almost tempting

01/02/2011 at 11:15
The dog or the race DD?!!
Dubai Dave    pirate
01/02/2011 at 13:56
LOL Race!!
01/02/2011 at 17:06
Ha!  Get entered then!  There's a limit of 300 and a third of them have been taken already.
01/02/2011 at 20:32
Liz Yelling is v down to earth and you can follow her on Twitter: girlwhatruns. She was fantastic on my thread last year and provided TONNES of support to Hash behind the scenes of her thread when she had her injury issues. She coached me for free in the intervening bit between London and Chester last year and everything that's been written above is what was covered by her in that period.
I even e-mailed her after my HM PB in the autumn even though we'd finished months earlier as I put into practice her coaching ideas and she was pleased for me.
'tis a shame she wasn't re-engaged for this year's SSX along with Steve. I think she really "got" the mentor bit of the SSX and really interacted with the forum users. She even chipped into the gel debate on JBFAR's sub 3 thread at one point even though she wasn't mentoring on it.
01/02/2011 at 21:37
Yeah, Liz Yelling was very down to earth + had such good advice. I was gutted when i went to work the next day + people were like Liz who?!

6.5 miles here tonight, mixing it up still between p+d and runner's world, did warm up + down with 6x 800m intervals. Definately better tho doing the long run on Saturday, legs weren't as mashed tonight
01/02/2011 at 21:38
here here MM.
01/02/2011 at 22:17
Kiwi, if you do a long run on a Sunday, do you run on Monday? You need a slow paced run the day after to de-mash your legs. I always run 6-8 Sat slow, long on Sunday, 9 slow on Monday, session on Tuesday. Also, if your legs are mashed the long run is probably too fast. Wednesday my legs are mashed aft the session. Not Monday.

I also did 6 x 800m tonight
02/02/2011 at 12:46

2 sessions to report today. 

Last night: plan was 7 miles genral aerobic including 6 x 100m strides.  We had a coach at the club last night and he had planned 4 x 1 mile @ 10k pace with 2 minute recovery.  I had a 12 mile to do this morning so didn't want to push it.  I ended up with 7 miles @ 8.51 pace and used the mile reps to do my 100m strides.  All sounds ok?  No not really.  I found the whole session hard and finished feeling sick with stomach cramps again, and needing to make a dash to the loo!  I'd taken care to make sure I ate well yesterday - cereal for breakfast, baked potato with tuna for lunch, a cheese sandwich an hour before the session and I was well hydrated.  I felt much better a couple of hours later.

 This morning - Plan was 12 miles mid/long run at 8.20 pace.  I started feeling a bit nervous after last night and forgot to take water!!  I literally ran 6 miles out and 6 back.  Average 8.25, and managed the second half quicker than the first (I'm constantly aware of the negative split etc).  The main problem this morning was the wind - The pace up one particular hill was 30 seconds quicker going up than when I'd run down it with a head wind!   Splits - 8.51; 8.21; 8.37; 8.26; 8.41 (this was the downhill!); 8.37; 8.12; 7.59; 8.16; 8.20; 8.09; 8.24.  I felt a bit sick when I finished but once I'd had a drink and something to eat I felt fine.

I listened to 'Marathon Talk' with a interview with Liz McColgan - what a runner!  On marathon training she said she ran all her LSRs at 5.XX pace.....!

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