RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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Dubai Dave    pirate
04/02/2011 at 05:38

Minni: well done for doing intervals, that pace (which equates to 4-16 min/K's cos I think in K's) is quite quick for starters, I would try nearer 4-30 min/K pace 7-12 min/miles. How much recovery did you allow? They will definitely be easier outdoors, i really struggle to run reps on a treadmill plus you are never sure how accurate the pace is. Did you have the tready on a incline?

Becs: i Know people who run all their runs with a backpack, I have no idea why! Personally i wouldn't run intervals with a backpack why make life hard for yourself? A well fitting rucksack is almost unnoticeable, does yours have a waist band and a strap across the chest to stop it moving around?

I raced 10K and unsurprisingly got beaten by Faris Al Sultan the 2005 Ironman world champion, 9th in 2010! Still got a sneaky PB though 41-24.

04/02/2011 at 08:56

BecsA what Dave said re backpacks. Chest and waist strap essential to keep it still and I wouldn't do intervals.  I've run a lot with a backpack off road and there's something almost comforting about it!  It would be great for you to run home from work if things are hectic and at lease you know you're getting it in.  It's also a great stress buster.

Fibre - I hadn't thought of that but will.  Thinking about it I do have quite a high fibre diet and that could just the it! 

DD Well done on the PB!  41.24 - very impressive and if you're going to get beaten then best to get beaten by a world champion!  Did you ask him for any tips afterwards .

Intervals - I allowed a 2 minute recovery and I had a 2 percent incline.  I chose 13.9kph (6.54 m/p) because I was trying to get them a tad under the 7 m/m.  Based on the Yasso theory this would still be too slow!  The first  400 of each rep felt fine but the second 400 felt hard and I was overheating big time.  Next week I'll slow it down a bit for the 4 and see if that's better....  although should it not feel really hard? 

04/02/2011 at 14:37
Afternoon peeps - can you believe that it took me until now to find this thead . Where have I been?

Hello to a few familiar faces: DD, Spoons, and of course Minni.

Minni, I hope you can get to the bottom of the sickness issue. Well done on the intervals. I think I need to give my schedule a good going over to see if I can make room for some. I want to be as fast as DD.

DD, well done on your 10k PB

Becs: I do my twice-weekly medium long runs as a commute into work with the backpack. If you find one that's right for you, you won't even notice it's there. I've even done some LT runs with mine - it's a godsend and it means I can fit in a lot of sessions where I'd otherwise struggle to find the time.

Minni, how did your LT run go? I had a real struggle today. Just one of those abysmal runs where you know from the first 3 steps that it's going to be rubbish. Didn't help that we had gale force winds and torrential rain . It felt like going backwards at times. Hope yours went better!

Have a great weekend, all!
04/02/2011 at 15:17
Well done DD

Hi Chickadeeeee
04/02/2011 at 17:41

hey Chickadeee, welcome to the dark side!  We all want to be as fast as DD.....

 LT run was, er, interesting to say the least.  We also have gale force winds and I'd chosen* an out and back route up a valley.  Needless to say the wind was head on for half of it.  So, 2.25m warm up then 6 miles: 8.02; 9.34; 10.35; 7.18; 6.26; 6.26;  followed by 2.85 warm down.  11 in total.   Can you guess which half was into the wind and which had the wind behind?!!!!

 * I hadn't actually chosen the route - my man Friday did.  He has kinda taken over the LT sessions and plans them for me and runs them with me.  Perfect!

Edited: 04/02/2011 at 17:43
04/02/2011 at 17:41
Edit to delete double post.
Edited: 04/02/2011 at 17:42
04/02/2011 at 18:03

Hi all,

spin session here tonight.  Well done DD on your 10km race, oh to be able to run that fast!

Managed 7 miles last night with 5 at LT, a bit shy of 7:30m/m though, still working on that pace.

20 miles planned for tomorrow am, recovery run Sunday.  Hoping those winds die down tonight!

Good luck for all your long runs   

seren nos    pirate
04/02/2011 at 20:03
Minni.....I love those splits on the run............the wind is making such a differnce isn't it.......I only have a park run tomorrow so i hope the wind if it hasn't died down will be in my face for the first half...............
04/02/2011 at 20:11
Just read the exchange on the Asics 3h30 thread asking where Kryptonite has got to. At least Steve has been good enough to keep posting and asking for regular input from other posters. Imagine if the coach had been Bud? How quiet would the thread be then?
seren nos    pirate
04/02/2011 at 20:14
I was thinking the same MM
04/02/2011 at 20:53

Good point MM!

 I am not blowing my own trumpet in any way but..... I have a busy life.  I have two kids who are at the age that they need taken places to enable them to partake in their own activities.  I run my own business (2 in fact) as does my husband (2 also).  I work long hours and always make sure I fulfill my childrens needs before I think about running.  However, I make sure I fit the running in. Although running my own business means I work long hours I can also be slightly flexible.  For example, I changed my full day off this week (and next) in favour of 2 half days so that I can get 2 of my key runs in.    I know seren nos also has a full on life (I read that profile thingy) and she achieves loads.  And, we are both active on our forums.  

Being chosen as a Forum six has, so far, been great for me.  I feel obliged to tick the sessions off and report back - good or bad.  DD has been banging on about these intervals and hey, what do you know, its starting to sink in, and I did them last night.  

I think I have gone slightly OCD but what the hell - if it gets the job done! 

Sometime I have to sneak on here to report (family saying I'm obsessed...!) and I always read the sub 3.15 thread and others.  Marathon training can be quite lonely but these forums make you feel like your part of something bigger.  

Now back to the wine.... .

04/02/2011 at 22:12

DD congrats on the PB.

Thanks all for the advice on running with backpacks. I've actually not tried running with the backpack I've got now (which only has a waist strap as at the time I couldn't find one with both, but fits quite well) but disliked the old one a lot as it just felt heavy plus the zip used to come undone and I'd start dropping my clothes down the street . I think it's going to be the way forward though in being able to fit more running in so will try the one I've got and if it doesn't work shop around for another one.

I think we're due the gale force winds here tomorrow.

04/02/2011 at 22:23
Great post Minni - you're my hero!

Becs - I do all my long runs with a backpack. An Inov8 with hydration bladder. I would never wear it for intervals though! It's very comfortable and means I can carry all the rubbish I like to carry around with me.
Dubai Dave    pirate
05/02/2011 at 10:12

Minni: Nice LT run. hey if you get a down wind marathon your on for sub 3 !  Don't see how you think 6-54 mins miles doesn't  fit the yasso theory. Yasso says run intervals of 800 metres in your marathon time i.e 3-30 in minutes and seconds .... So a 3 minute 30 second 800 metres =  4 mins 22 seconds Km or a  7 minute 03 second mile, he then goes on to say you should have a 3 minute 30 second jogged recovery.

Conventional wisdom is 1% incline to counteract the foot being drawn back by the belt. The real trouble with tready's is that the speed can be way out either way. I reckon the one I use in the gym is quicker than  it says and my own is slower than it says and that is based on how paces feel on the track.

Chick: Nice to see you here

Becs: You get used to backpacks quick enough as long as they don't bounce around, if you use one wit a hydration bladder suck out the air before you run and then the water doesn't slosh around. I have run 150K ultras with a pack and the sloshing was the most annoying bit!

Minni: do you dare stop posting!

Thanks for the well dones, i'm just back from camping in the desert, very windy and quite cold last night, have just showered the whole family and now we have a beach in the bath

05/02/2011 at 11:14
Dubai Dave wrote (see)

Yasso says run intervals of 800 metres in your marathon time i.e 3-30 in minutes and seconds .... So a 3 minute 30 second 800 metres =  4 mins 22 seconds Km or a  7 minute 03 second mile, he then goes on to say you should have a 3 minute 30 second jogged recovery.


Oh, yes you're right. But, I think it took 3mins 39 to do each one which was why I was thinking it wasn't good enough. 

I had a very gentle couple of miles this morning with my dog and have the first 20 tomorrow. 

Camping in the desert sounds interesting.  Are there any snakes?  How is the calf?

Dubai Dave    pirate
05/02/2011 at 11:35
Calf is 100% OK, snakes sometimes, scorpions often, some fairly hairy off road driving required through the dunes.  Enjoy the 20 miler tomorrow.
05/02/2011 at 12:58

I'm back!

DD - well done on your PB

Minni- some good runs this week, hey.

This is a forced recovery week for me as I had to go away from a few days, so after not running wednesday, thursday or friday and  500 miles driving I was pretty shattered today, but I set off to do somewhere between 14 and 16 and ran down to the canal and did 15 miles, miles 8-14 were sub 8s so that pleased me.

Am I the only person not to have hit a 20 miler yet??

05/02/2011 at 14:19
Hear, hear Mini re your posting. I am loving this forum, so good to chat to people aiming for a similar time. I do most my mara training by myself as there isn't anybody at my club mara training at around my pace. I already feel much more well informed + confident about my training, thanks to all the advice on here.

AA - well done on you sub 8m/m miles on your run. Don't worry that you haven't done a 20 miler yet, the runner's world schedule had 18 miles for this week, you still have time to build up to 20.

I am blaming the strong winds on my slow 9.17 m/m 20 miles this morning, would hate it to be that windy on the day!
05/02/2011 at 15:55
AA - 19.3 is my furthest yet so, NO, you're not the only person!
05/02/2011 at 16:25
kiwirunner10 wrote (see)
 I am blaming the strong winds on my slow 9.17 m/m 20 miles this morning, would hate it to be that windy on the day!

It would be ok if the wind was behind us all the way
9.17 m/m 20 miler sounds perfect pace - I'm not expecting mine to be any faster tomorrow. 

AA great to have you back and by the sound of your run today the rest has done you good. 

Mr Spoons I read on the other thread that you'd aborted your run today (sorry to reply on this thread...).  Sometimes its best just to call it a day if you think its not going to get any better.  Do you think you're coming down with something or was it just one of those runs?  Whatever it is I'm sure it'll just be a temporary blip. 

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