RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30

Minni v Dubai Dave

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30/12/2010 at 09:18
Mr Spoons wrote (see)
I don't agree with all of P&D's fast running early on. this is BASE training.

Sorry, but to give Minni the confidence she's on the right track, I have to disagree. The Base training period is the period of slow running and mileage building in the weeks leading up to the Marathon schedule. These weeks ready the mind and body for the harder work that comes with the marathon campaign.  Minni has started the schedule now, which comprises the early Lactate Threshold runs. These are important in improving the ability of the legs to keep a quicker pace for longer, which in turn, will enable her to hold the MP stints in the MLRs and LSRs and will also make MP feel easier.

x-post: Crikey CG, you mean business!!!

Edited: 30/12/2010 at 09:20
30/12/2010 at 09:24

Only problem with that 6 miler now is that I am supposed to be doing my reps today and even after a 5 mile recovery run yesterday my back and quads are still aching!! Rest day today I think and reps tomorrow now!!

CG - blimey you do put the miles in - well done already! Most I've done is a 30 mile week so far - mind you even in peak training rarely go over 40 mile weeks

30/12/2010 at 09:31

B&B Yes, that makes sense.  Thanks.  There are so many different views on pace its sometimes hard to keep up.  I have trained for previous marathons without pushing myself too much on the pace front and have never cracked the 3.30.  This time I want a different approach and hopefully it will produce a positive result.

CG - Yikes.  That's a high mileage but you're experienced enough to know what will work for you.  I'm also worried about the Brass Monkey because I don't feel as if I've improved in the speed since my last half in October, when I was 4 mins off my pb .

Today is a cross train for me and I'm going out to do a 6 with the Mr Minni.  It won't be any quicker than 10mm but I'm then going to follow it with this session as recommended my a fellow runner.  Its a short but high intensity work out.  Anyone else tried this? 

30/12/2010 at 12:10
Minni:

Warm up - Jog at 50% max for 5 minutes
6 x (Sprint for 20 seconds + 10 seconds rest)
1 minute rest
6 x (Sprint for 20 seconds + 10 seconds rest)
1 minute rest
6 x (Sprint for 20 seconds + 10 seconds rest)
1 minute rest
Cool down - Jog at 50% max for 5 minutes.

This sounds like FUN. I've never tried it but I will and soon. I'll keep you posted. i think it's great 5 / 10 km training. Not sure about marathon training though? My marathon speedwork is usually more like 800s, mile reps and tempo runs. I do like to mix it all up a bit though.
30/12/2010 at 12:30
Minni - Sounds like you are going well so far.  As B& B said, keep to the schedule as much as possible as it has been written for a reason and will give you a huge amount of confidence if you can.  As you've said before you have the endurance so by training your legs to do the faster stuff will get you below your target.
30/12/2010 at 12:38

Thanks Minni.  My P&D book won't be delivered until Jan. 4th, so am following the runners world sub 3:30 schedule at the moment. 

My marathon P.B is 3:35, half P.B 1:39, like you my endurance is fine I can plod along happily, but I am not very good at the short and fast stuff, speed work is something I find really difficult in training!  Pace is a tricky one too.  Has anyone trained using progressive runs before and found them to be really beneficial?  Runners World seem to like the idea of progressive runs, I'm not sure if you then take longer to recover?  Think I am going to include some on the Sunday long runs this time around.

Loads of great ideas on here, thanks guys  

30/12/2010 at 13:31

Kiwi - I'm into the third week of the P & D. The first two weeks were a bit haphazard due to the snow but I'm on target this week.  This is how my week looks:

Monday - rest or cross-train.  I rested! Did core strength exercises, from the P&D book.

Tuesday - 10 mile General Aerobic.  ( Done at 8.23 average, slightly too fast)

Wednesday - Recovery.  (I missed because I was away for the day.   Core strength exercises).

Thursday - 5 mile recovery run.

Friday - Lactate Threshold, 8 miles with 4 miles at half marathon pace (7.37).

Saturday - 4 mile recovery run.

Sunday - 14 miles somewhere between half and marathon pace.  It is the winter rerun of a summer run.  Not a race but there'll be a crowd which should help the pace. 

Total for week: 41.

30/12/2010 at 14:24
Minni well done on what you've got done so far. I have a feeling that with you having a thread of your own you'll want to start hitting the sessions so you have positive news to feed back. In turn you'll develop a level of consistency that will provide the backbone to a great marathon. Don't get hung up on the 3h30 moniker just focus on logging the sessions P&D prescribe first and foremost. Brass Monkey will be an excellent marker of where you're at and again don't fret about the result. Whatever the time it will let you know where you are in terms of fitness with 14(?) weeks to go. Plenty of time to build on a good result or to build up if you're not where you think you should be.
Wishing you all the very best in 2011
30/12/2010 at 15:55
Thanks MM! Please stick around - you always give sound advice.  I think you've hit the nail on the head with the training sessions.  I've never really stuck to proper training because I'm only answerable to myself.  Hopefully, as you say, this way I will be much stricter about getting the sessions ticked off.  You helped change my thinking regarding target times with your advice a few weeks ago so, at the moment,  I'm concentrating on getting used to running fast more often. 
30/12/2010 at 19:54
Your recent 1h40 suggests just a smidgeon outside a 3h30m marathon. I'd wager that with 4 more weeks of training under your belt you'll go quicker than that. Isn't Brass Monkey flat and fast?
I think that being consistently consistent over 16 weeks will bring it's own reward and allow you to get the pb you crave
31/12/2010 at 08:50

Minni - your training sounds like it's full steam ahead!  I'm especially liking the core training stuff your doing - I've never tried doing much more than runnnig in previous training schedules, but I think this maybe the year to expand my horizons.

Like a few others, I've also ordered P&D (you should own shares!).

Happy new year etc to all.

31/12/2010 at 12:12

Lol Lake!

Mr Spoons.   I tried it yesterday and its much harder than it sounds.  I was lucky, the phone rang during the first effort so I just had to answer it....    Let us know how it goes.  I know it sounds like a random thing to add into marathon training but because its a short burst maybe it'll just unlock something.....  Its been suggested that it can  be added onto the end of another session, ie long run.   Why don't you try it a few times then advise the rest of us !

I've just discovered a new half marathon in my neck of the woods in March, 3 weeks before London. Perfect.

Lactate Threshold 8 miles today.  Average 8.19.  I fell just short of the 4 at half MP, clocking them 20 seconds slower than planned.  Erm, I'll blame the hills, ice on the side of the road, dodgy garmin reading.... Oh, and too much wine last night! 

31/12/2010 at 12:37

That already sounds hard Minni - 8 miles at 8:19!

9 x 600m reps for me today done on treadmill at 15.2kph. Feels great when its doe. 600m is my shortest speed session with 16oom reps bing the longest.

Rest planned tomorrow - with a hangover no doubt and my long run planned for Sunday this week.

Happy New Year everyone

31/12/2010 at 17:46

Minni - well done on your training so far!  My Runner's world schedule sees me doing a megre 31 miles this week..... seems so little compared to others on this forum!  On the plus side - my P&D book arrived today!!  I think Amazon were just being cautious with their estimated delivery date of Jan 4th.  Am looking forward to reading that and trying out their schedule.

I tried their core stability exercises after my run today, could really feel the muscles being worked.  Am going to add those 3 times a week to my schedule from now on, the way they explain it in P&D, core stability will really help with running efficiency, heres hoping!

 Happy New Year to everyone!

01/01/2011 at 01:12
Happy New Year evryone!

i guess the proper training starts on Tuesday...
01/01/2011 at 10:39

Happy New Year! 

Kiwi - glad you got the book!  Yes, it seems core strength is the way to a pb... it all sounds so easy when in words!

01/01/2011 at 12:41

Happy New Year to you all.

Ahem Mr Spoons.....Some of us have been out for 8 miles @ MP at 7 this morning. Got to keep that spreadsheet tidy!

We were away at a party last night so I was able to run somewhere flat for a change which was lovely as I didn't have to think about my pace at all. Very satisfied with an average of 7:56 at this stage.

02/01/2011 at 01:16

Great running and dedication CG.

Just finished New Year's Day party and should manage 5 hours sleep before my 14 miler in the morning.... 

02/01/2011 at 09:27
Yeah all right CG. You obviously have a greater dedication than me! I managed a walk yesterday and 3.5 miles this morning. OK I know, it's rubbish
02/01/2011 at 11:51

I managed a big fat nothing yesterday other than a couple of dog walks!!! Prefer to call it a "rest day"!!

Well done CG - proper dedication!

Up and out early today - and did 16.25 ave 8:41 min/mile. Hilly and cold but I am glad its done.

Good luck Minni today

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